Another joke in Pitt

[hockeymom 2]

I think that is why so many people have a hate-on for Sid... call it the "anti-celebrity" backlash.

Recent incident aside, I can't really remember LeBron James being hammered like this. The "anti-celebrity" sentiment isn't universal so much as it is selective (and usually justified).

I see where you are going with this but I don't think it is a direct paralell. First the NBA hasn't been as hungry for celebrity as the NHL has been. I don't follow basketball closely so I don't know if the media has been following and writing about him since he was 16 as the next hope for the sport.

That's a bit much for anyone to carry. And I really don't believe the "anti-celebrity" thing is as selective as you would like to think it is. Like it or not, it would be VERY easy to come up with a list of people who have been attacked as much for their celebrity as anything else. How often have I read about Sid not having "paid his dues" yet?

[Chadd 916]

LOL alhough I do remember there was a time when people criticised Gretz for "hiding" behind being a finese player and not taking the hits.

In other words, history is repeating itself because that statement is 100% true. Gretzky was bashed his first couple of years in the league. He used to whine to the refs as much as Crosby does. Gretzky could not be complained about for diving though. Nobody ever got near him as weaved his way around the ice always skating against the grain pulling up at the top of the blueline or doing his spinnerama along the wall.

That's a lot different that giving a guy a cheap shot for making a clean play against you. Freddy Meyer made a couple great plays one on one against Ovechkin about a week before the game that inspired my comments, when asked about him Ovechkin complimented Meyer.

[Chadd 916]

How often have I read about Sid not having "paid his dues" yet?

I made comments like that in response to him trying to take over leadership of the Penguins in the first couple weeks of his career, but that was last year. You have to earn respect, it isn't given freely.

[hockeymom 2]

Actually, I have thought that a lot of criticism directed at Sid is fair game. Especially about the cheap shots - and you will never hear me defending him for any of that.

Even so, a whole lot of the criticism directed at him hasn't been warranted IMO. I do believe the level of energy brought to both the criticism and the praise is out of proportion... or perhaps is in direct proportion to the amount of hype generated about a very young and talented man from "down home" in Nova Scotia.

I was hoping he wouldn't have leadership thrust onto his shouders last year - not from a "you have to pay your dues" p.o.v., but more from a "don't someone add that burden to him".

Really tho' the similarities between how Gretz and Sid were hyped and attacked in their first few seasons is remarkably similar.

[Grave77Digger 1]

Wasnt it Gretz himself who really got te hype rolling about crosby? Saying if anyone had a chance at breaking his records it would be him?

[hockeymom 2]

Wasnt it Gretz himself who really got te hype rolling about crosby? Saying if anyone had a chance at breaking his records it would be him?

The hype existed before that, at least in Canada where we get more hockey coverage than some. Yes, Gretz did say that and it did raise the intensity of the "Sid-watch".

What was the timing of his comments - was it before or after Don Cherry's attack?

[Eazy_b97 1]

Gretzky may have been the lightning in Edmonton in the 80s but Messier was the thunder. I have to respectfully disagree with you that those in the NHL knew who Messier was by about 1983. He had already begun to leave his imprint by then. The Oilers Cup years were as much about Messier as they were about Gretzky. Messier's leadership abilities also shined during the 87 Canada Cup. Fast forward to his Cup win without Gretzky in Edmonton and Messier's captain's credentials were cemented by then. The Rangers story is common knowledge among those here since it took place within MSHers lifetimes. The recent Messier lovefest is just a payback, in a way, for a living legend.

My read on Messier was that his extended stay with the Rangers at the end of his career and his piss poor showing in Vancouver seemed to cancel out what he did in '94. Everyone knew the difference maker he was, but didn't want to accept it. With alot of people not being able to see his Oiler days (like myself) or people just dismissing it from the supporting cast (even minus Gretz), this lead to his being underappreciated towards the end of his career outside NY.

[DarkStar50 679]

Easy

We knew Theo would jump in! I would just like to say that it is difficult for the player as well as the fans, when your flame does not burn as brightly as it once did. However, having seen Messier at full throttle in his Oiler days I knew the intensity the man had on ice. He was a force. Messier's true power game in Edmonton was unstoppable. He could kill an entire penalty by himself and top it off with a short-handed goal. His first Rangers saga was certainly his best because he did what had not been done before. He raised the team to his level. His second session was disappointing in terms of results but not in what he brought to the Rangers as The Captain.

[LkptTiger 1]

AHHHHH!!! WHY DID I CLICK IT???

[Chadd 916]

Wasnt it Gretz himself who really got te hype rolling about crosby? Saying if anyone had a chance at breaking his records it would be him?

The hype existed before that, at least in Canada where we get more hockey coverage than some. Yes, Gretz did say that and it did raise the intensity of the "Sid-watch".

What was the timing of his comments - was it before or after Don Cherry's attack?

They started pimping him in THN as a 15 year old. if not before. I think the lockout had a major impact on the media coverage too. Had there been an NHL season, he wouldn't have had so much coverage his last year in junior.

[hockeymom 2]

Wasnt it Gretz himself who really got te hype rolling about crosby? Saying if anyone had a chance at breaking his records it would be him?

The hype existed before that, at least in Canada where we get more hockey coverage than some. Yes, Gretz did say that and it did raise the intensity of the "Sid-watch".

What was the timing of his comments - was it before or after Don Cherry's attack?

They started pimping him in THN as a 15 year old. if not before. I think the lockout had a major impact on the media coverage too. Had there been an NHL season, he wouldn't have had so much coverage his last year in junior.

"pimping him" is an interesting - and valid - expression. Combined, as you've said Chadd, with the timing of the lock-out which increased the need to find a poster-boy for the hope and excitement of the new NHL.

What a double-edged sword this has been for him. Don Cherry's attack arguably did more to propel interest and raise his profile than Gretz's praise.

A significant part of people's desire to tear him down comes from the arrogance they think he has and that no one should be raised to this pedestal at his age before he has paid his dues and earned our respect. But this is largely based on the level and degree of hype about him - that he STARTED in the NHL as a celebrity rather than evolving into one based on his NHL record. I do not believe he or his handlers had the sophistication to drive or manipulate the media interest in him at the time.

He has, in many ways, been more of a victim of all the hype as he has benefited from it.

[Grave77Digger 1]

He's good (an understatement). But there are alot of other very good young guys in the league that will never get half the recognition The Croz gets now. I agree its annoying that he was pretty much granted star status before ever playing in the NHL but it seems all the scouts were right this time. Another player that has been given star player status before "paying his dues" is Malkin. But yet people seem to love him only because of the ordeal he had to go through to get to the NHL.

I think the "Crosby Lottery" did more for his infamy than anything else. Everyone at the time wanted to draft him and when he went to Pittsburgh there was a collective groan. If he had gone to the Flyers I would have hated the kid also, so I understand where other fans are coming from.

[DarkStar50 679]

Everybody wants to knock the star off his pedestal. That is human nature. It is also human nature to root for the underdog(OV) to succeed. Evrybody wants Crosby to act perfectly or almost perfectly so they can like him. Then Crosby goes ballistic on ice and everybody is all over him for it. He's f'n human!! He's under tons of pressure and for the most part he delivers. Everytime he blows his nose the video is on Youtube. If Gretzky and the others before or after him had to live in this video now world, what would we think of them? Who knows whether Gretzky or Yzerman ever gave a wicked two-hander to the back of Brad Marsh's legs? Don't say they didn't or weren't capable when its impossible to know the truth. I'd rather Crosby or any player show some emotion(good or bad) on ice than act like the next bland Vanilla superstar. I wish Joe Thornton would snap once just so I know there is something going on inside the big guy. I'll take Crosby with his faults. It makes him a person, not a media machine spitting out all the politically correct nonsense that most pro athletes do to cover their butt and their paycheck.

[Eazy_b97 1]

What did you guys do...Talk in PM about me

Anyways, if you need any convincing, Eazy- Watch this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=28...ew+York+Rangers

I am well aware of what he did and that entire playoffs. I am also aware that Vancouver expected a similar level of play and got nothing even close to it. Then he put up Antropov type numbers, while being captain, playing in a role he wasn't fitted for, and just wouldn't accept it was time to leave. His age doesn't really justify poor play, he is paid to do a job and he couldn't do it. I'd be impressed if an 80 year old put up 5 points on the first line, but it wouldn't benefit the team.

As for the PM, it's just accepted you'll chime in whenever someone comments negatively about a rangers leader. Just like it's expected I'll jump in on any Niedermayer, Stevens, Kaberle, or Phaneuf threads. So no PM was needed :)

[DarkStar50 679]

I'd be impressed if an 80 year old put up 5 points on the first line, but it wouldn't benefit the team.

Actually, now that I have crossed the half-century mark, I am even more impressed that Gordie Howe played in the NHL at 50 years old!

[jjtt99 0]

EazyB, can we not bring up the whole Messier in Vancouver thing...it makes me queezy.

Wow, talk about busted expectations. I guess the only good that came out of it is Naslund credits a lot of his success to the Moose.

[chippa13 1844]

Everybody wants to knock the star off his pedestal. That is human nature. It is also human nature to root for the underdog(OV) to succeed. Evrybody wants Crosby to act perfectly or almost perfectly so they can like him. Then Crosby goes ballistic on ice and everybody is all over him for it. He's f'n human!! He's under tons of pressure and for the most part he delivers. Everytime he blows his nose the video is on Youtube. If Gretzky and the others before or after him had to live in this video now world, what would we think of them? Who knows whether Gretzky or Yzerman ever gave a wicked two-hander to the back of Brad Marsh's legs? Don't say they didn't or weren't capable when its impossible to know the truth. I'd rather Crosby or any player show some emotion(good or bad) on ice than act like the next bland Vanilla superstar. I wish Joe Thornton would snap once just so I know there is something going on inside the big guy. I'll take Crosby with his faults. It makes him a person, not a media machine spitting out all the politically correct nonsense that most pro athletes do to cover their butt and their paycheck.

Joe has. The problem was he did it with sticks to the chops. I recall back in his first playoffs when he gave Brendan Witt a little what-for. He's also had a couple of frustration scraps in the last couple of years.

As for all this criticism of Crosby being a whiner or taking little cheap shots, there is not a high profile player in the last 25 years who couldn't be accused of at least one or the other and in many cases, both. Did we so soon forget Mario's seemingly constant threats or retirement because he was being hooked and held? How about the night he absolutely mugged a NY Islander from behind back in one of the Pens Cup runs? Did we all forget about Gretzky's well publicized penchant for bitching at the refs his first few seasons in the league? Has anyone ever truly scrutinized Bourque's play because he was a master at the little chops and crosschecks?

Let's not be guilty of holding Crosby to a higher standard than any other player who came before.

[Eazy_b97 1]

EazyB, can we not bring up the whole Messier in Vancouver thing...it makes me queezy.

Wow, talk about busted expectations. I guess the only good that came out of it is Naslund credits a lot of his success to the Moose.

You can be exhibit A :D