Therma Blade

[Rustpot 1]

I quess therma won't go with out a fight

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2008/02/15/...ed_blade_tests/

5 don't like them, so now let's see what 50 think.

This is what got me from that article-

"Our initial testing with players to date has been extremely successful in providing feedback and there is tremendous interest in our proven technology among a growing number of NHL players and teams," Sam McCoubrey, the company's vice-president of sales and marketing, said in a statement.

Proven technology.

[TBLfan 25]

It is proven that it is technology, it doesn't say that the technology works for it's designed purpose.

[Chadd 916]

Aren't products usually tested before they go on sale? I feel bad for people who have already shelled out $400 for this. It seems like the testing is far from sufficient so far.

That's just it, nobody has shelled out $400 for them. Every shop I know that stocked them is still sitting on every pair they brought in.

[Rustyhole 1]

the last thing hockey needs is something to make high end skates more expensive. in Canada we're already scarily close to a $1000! for skates! even if TB's worked as stated, i don't think you'd see this idea trickle down to lower end skates too easily.

[cxo 0]

Not to mention that, while the average consumer isn't particularly smart, and is prone to fall for cheap marketing tactics, there's no way that THAT many people could be conned into buying something that will provide little to no advantage. I just don't see how it could take off if it were only $100 or less.

[DarkStar50 679]

? How many guys in this thread have tried TBs?

[AnthonyJTa 0]

...even better, how many would consider if they weren't so damn costly??

[schrempsky 0]

? How many guys in this thread have tried TBs?

im sure a fair number of guys have been able to test them out, me being one of them, this is my second test drive

the store i work at has done ok selling them,but supposedly the other competeing LHS in the city has outsold us with them, so we are getting in a bit of trouble

I believe we sold two this weekend, so i guess they are doing ok by us thus far.

[Rustpot 1]

? How many guys in this thread have tried TBs?

im sure a fair number of guys have been able to test them out, me being one of them, this is my second test drive

the store i work at has done ok selling them,but supposedly the other competeing LHS in the city has outsold us with them, so we are getting in a bit of trouble

I believe we sold two this weekend, so i guess they are doing ok by us thus far.

Where is your shop? Manhattan? Beverly Hills? I would definitely buy a good set of skates and maybe a few sticks, some new elbows, etc with the cash it would cost to buy and mount TBs.

[schrempsky 0]

yeah, i agree with you there

there are definitly other things i would buy before that

thats why im only demoing them, would never buy them

my shop is in canada, edmonton to be exact

[Hipster 5]

End users are always warned that "You get what you pay for"

Well the moral of the story here for new companies or new products is that "They pay for what they get."

Thermablades priced themselves way out of the market relative to the benefits their product communicated to users on its own or the benefits they were able/willing to show.

The hierarchy of pricing a benefit:

Novelty/Coolness/Style

Feel

Performance

"Novelty or Style"

Can only be priced at a premium AFTER the novelty and style is established, but never before that. The price premium never lasts longer than the Novelty/Style perception.

"Feel"

A little more durable and tangible as a benefit and doesn't require anyone but the end user to pass judgement on the merits of the claim. Because of this, "Feel" can be sold for a little more for a longer period to the end users who agree with the "feel".

"Performance"

This is the Big Ticket to steady profit if you can prove it. You can charge a premium and demand lasts for as long the product maintains performance edge.

The higher the premium you plan to charge, the bigger and more obvious the benefit needs to be.

If the benefit is not big or obvious, then you better damn well document it if you plan on charging a premium.

I think Thermablades got greedy and made the fatal mistake of trying to grab a premium they were not entitled to charge.

As a novelty or a "Feel" purchase, I would pay $25-$50 extra, but only if they came attached to suitable boots and they didn't detract from performance.

The only way anyone would have paid $400 for them without proof of immediate gains in speed or agility, would be if they had solid evidence to show improved endurance over a long period of skating.

They focused on tangible benefits on speed and agility and the product simply isn't able to cash that check.

Their best bet to sell these at $400 would have been to take whatever feature (if any) they could prove and find a potential benefit to a potential niche user worthy of $400.

I had always contended that if they did have a market at $400, it was with competitive, affluent beer league guys, but only if they could show an increase in endurance or decrease in cardiovascular strain in the middle age and older skater.

That segment wouldn't need to be sold on huge gains in speed before they'd pay $400. You'd just need to show a slight increase in endurance and a slight decrease in risk for beer league induced myocardial infarction.

Apparently, that wasn't a big enough market for them, so inmstead of going after a smaller market they could justify, they tried to grab a big market with claims they never backed up.

Oh well.

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

UPDATE -

ThermaBlade is being recalled completely. We backed up the truck and are sending 120 units back to them.

The plan is to tweak it, get 50 NHLers in it and reintroduce to market. Complaints equipment wise is that they are heavy and battery failure amongst other things.

The plan is to lower the current model to $299.99 and come out with a new one with disposable batteries for $399.99.

I've finally acquired a set. IT's a 288 so a bit small, but I'll give it a go finally.

[AnthonyJTa 0]

That would explain about 30 boxes of TB's gathered behind the counter at Pure Hockey earlier this week.

[TBLfan 25]

If TB didnt waste all this damn money getting their product recognition they wouldn't have to overprice them at $400 and might be able to actually sell a pair.

What you do is market your product selling price is lower. Get recognition. Then release the upgraded version and charge more. Then release another version and charge a bit more. It's the reason why Apple is doing soo well, good buisness plan.

[Keith 0]

The problem with them is it is really hard to believe those things cost anywhere close to that much to manufacture. Even at that new price, nobody will buy them.. They should be gunning for $100...... If they don't sell for $100, they just won't sell at all..... I don't think they thought this through from a human psychological pov either.... Usually anything electrical and liquids don't mix and skate blades get caked in snow. I am sure most ppl think they will short out or eventually shock them somehow even if the engineering is sound with the electronics.

[TBLfan 25]

Agreed... Also, why would you release these before you find out that they are defective? This isn't a computer where for whatever reason we accept "bugs." This is a product that is publically reviewed by the people that are the face of products, the NHL player. We ALL know that a large number of people buy Easton sticks because they are the most common at the NHL level, same with vapor skates. Sooo, you're going to give defective products to these guys before you test adequetly at a less visable level. These should have been tested by some college hockey program for a full season.

Then when you find out the batteries are dying and other various concerns you can make adjustments and do it all over again. Once you KNOW you have a good product, introduce it to the NHL level. THEN you get some buzz... What is this new thermablade thing? What holders is _____ _____ using. And THEN you release these to the open market.

All in all, they sound like a company that is run by people that don't know what they are doing. These guys are looking for a homerun when they haven't taken batting practice.

[Dangles919 0]

yea def. sounds like they were trying to get rich right off the bat without making sure everything was working flawlessly

[TBLfan 25]

Which is a 1 in a Million shot even if they have the best thing since sliced bread. The guys have NO NAME in hockey, or anywhere else as far as I know. You slap a known name on these and they would have actually sold some... How fast are you to buy from an ebayer with no rep? You have no idea if these are coming from a guy with a stencil, some paint and a bunch of stolen custom+ holders and duracell batteries. Reason # 237 why TB is failing, no brand name.

Look at where sprungs are. Keith has done the right thing, he's played it smart. And Sprungs are doing pretty decent, but if you ask 100 random hockey players about sprungs, how many of those do you think will know what you're talking about? It's a slow process, but if you have a good product and you play your cards right, you can make it. I can see Keith making it, why? Good product, realistic pricing and great customer service.

[Rustpot 1]

Which is a 1 in a Million shot even if they have the best thing since sliced bread. The guys have NO NAME in hockey, or anywhere else as far as I know. You slap a known name on these and they would have actually sold some... How fast are you to buy from an ebayer with no rep? You have no idea if these are coming from a guy with a stencil, some paint and a bunch of stolen custom+ holders and duracell batteries. Reason # 237 why TB is failing, no brand name.

But Wayne Gretzky!!!! I don't know why I don't have a pair, Wayne FUCKING Gretzky is behind these things!

Interested to hear DarkStar's final review, and JRs now that he's on a pair.

[cxo 0]

Which is a 1 in a Million shot even if they have the best thing since sliced bread. The guys have NO NAME in hockey, or anywhere else as far as I know. You slap a known name on these and they would have actually sold some... How fast are you to buy from an ebayer with no rep? You have no idea if these are coming from a guy with a stencil, some paint and a bunch of stolen custom+ holders and duracell batteries. Reason # 237 why TB is failing, no brand name.

But Wayne Gretzky!!!! I don't know why I don't have a pair, Wayne FUCKING Gretzky is behind these things!

Sarcasm right? I guess I can only hope.

[Shark#81 0]

Which is a 1 in a Million shot even if they have the best thing since sliced bread. The guys have NO NAME in hockey, or anywhere else as far as I know. You slap a known name on these and they would have actually sold some... How fast are you to buy from an ebayer with no rep? You have no idea if these are coming from a guy with a stencil, some paint and a bunch of stolen custom+ holders and duracell batteries. Reason # 237 why TB is failing, no brand name.

Look at where sprungs are. Keith has done the right thing, he's played it smart. And Sprungs are doing pretty decent, but if you ask 100 random hockey players about sprungs, how many of those do you think will know what you're talking about? It's a slow process, but if you have a good product and you play your cards right, you can make it. I can see Keith making it, why? Good product, realistic pricing and great customer service.

One thing missed in the discussion is the group of "endorsed products". You can be a player overnight, even with equal or slightly substandard product with players motivated from what their hero is using. (know who I am talking about??) All that takes is public or shareholder $$. A few mill here or there no problem.

Gretz has some pull for makin' news, but not for actual use, cause he's not playin' in the show right now. My guess he's likely on a deal compensated by a % of sales volume.

This turnabout is a collossal error in what really comes down to engineering. The battery weight penalty at the worst possible location is a glaring one to me. I would have spec'd a remote pack on the body, or even an off-ice system. As pointed out skates/blades are a really harsh, salt-marine environment. You'd need to be really well sealed to get a year or two out of them without corrosion.

Somebody said it...they shoulda come here first.

[TBLfan 25]

If it was my product, I wouldn't have come here first. I would have made friends with a 1A college hockey equipment manager to get these on as many skates as I could. Then after I hear their input, I would come here with some but I'd try my best to keep everything quiet until I had a quality working product.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

doesnt help that their claims cant be vetted by anyone.

[Caustic Mick 0]

What a waste of money...

[TBLfan 25]

doesnt help that their claims cant be vetted by anyone.

Makes sense considering its a low current trying to heat metal, with a rather large surface area, that is on ice. They need more power or better conducting metal for it to work... if in fact this works in more than just theory.