Graf Canada SUCKS - run like a Mickey Mouse Operation

[usahockey22 0]

One of the few shop owners in my state who still sells a good amount of Graf's stuff happens to be quite corrupt himself...i.e. telling me I would need to buy 2 pairs of skates for my feet, just running a shady business in general, constantly pushing Graf and t-blade "technology" on customers who don't know better, claiming their warranty is rock solid. Oh, and also bashing bauer-nike whenever he gets the chance, as they won some large sum of money from him in a settlement a while back. Guy has a criminal record (theft), and one of his main stores mysteriously burned down, conveniently giving him the insurance money to open a few new ones (and bringing the lawsuit from bauer).

I guess people stick with their own kind, as this guy does with the Graf company (corrupt). Most other shops I've gone to have had to drop Graf for various reasons, including bad customer service, low demand, or just that it's impossible to deal with them.

[Hockeydog 8]

Thanks epstud74. Are Flexlights like other skates- the higher the model the better? I will also look at the Fuel 120's !

[jokerit1967 0]

I guess people stick with their own kind, as this guy does with the Graf company (corrupt). Most other shops I've gone to have had to drop Graf for various reasons, including bad customer service, low demand, or just that it's impossible to deal with them.

"burn Galactica.. burn... you're finished Adama... "

[daca 0]

damn, that's sketchy. where are you from, usahockey22?

[kovalchuk71 212]

Nice to hear this. So much for my 709 purchase..... I wil go to someone else

[epstud74 24]

Thanks epstud74. Are Flexlights like other skates- the higher the model the better? I will also look at the Fuel 120's !

I'm not sure, havent tried on anything past the Flexlite 12. I will say the Flexlite 10/12 both fit almost identical, and are probably the most comfortable skate I've ever worn along with Bauer 8090s. Either way, they felt high quality, stiff, but very comfortable with good room in the toe box area and snug with good padding in the ankle/heel area. I've seen more and more players wearing Flexlites these days, especially in the Junior A ranks.

[DarkStar50 679]

Sorry to piss on everyone's parade but Graf Canada doesn't make only hockey skates in Calgary. They also make a ton of high end figure boots and we sell a lot of them in our shop to elite skaters. I'm not saying Graf Canada doesn't care about their hockey skate business. Its just that they have a few more irons in the fire than you may know about.

[wickedlite44 0]

Thanks epstud74. Are Flexlights like other skates- the higher the model the better? I will also look at the Fuel 120's !

I'm not sure, havent tried on anything past the Flexlite 12. I will say the Flexlite 10/12 both fit almost identical, and are probably the most comfortable skate I've ever worn along with Bauer 8090s. Either way, they felt high quality, stiff, but very comfortable with good room in the toe box area and snug with good padding in the ankle/heel area. I've seen more and more players wearing Flexlites these days, especially in the Junior A ranks.

Ive thought about getting grafs once, but however I never want to deal with all the CS issues. I have since gone to Nike skates. I currently wear hi ho silvers, v12's and soon to be some flexlites as well. Never had a problem with the skates before, and I know Nike Bauer will always be sold at the LHS if any issues come arise.

[usahockey22 0]

Yea...instead of actually caring to correct a simple problem with the faulty skates that one of his customers purchased, he threatens to sue the customer for the damaging comments made. What a joke.

[jokerit1967 0]

Sorry to piss on everyone's parade but Graf Canada doesn't make only hockey skates in Calgary. They also make a ton of high end figure boots and we sell a lot of them in our shop to elite skaters. I'm not saying Graf Canada doesn't care about their hockey skate business. Its just that they have a few more irons in the fire than you may know about.

Darkstar - I actually pictured myself buying a pair when i was in your shop (i think it was a month ago) thought I could get them for a Rockfeller center winter skate after getting roasted chestnuts from a NY street vendor... but I was floored by the price.

However, I had included that in my Graf $ ideas (also I think most of the accounts are dual ones like your in-rink shop... although I have been to one rink in search of a pro shop about a month ago and realized they didn't even bother with hockey stuff - it ended up being a private skating club (all figure/dance stuff in the pro shop)...

still I would be willing to bet AK's Ebay auction price that Easton's annual baseball and softball business crushes Graf Canada's total lifetime revenue.

[B-Nads 0]

Sorry to piss on everyone's parade but Graf Canada doesn't make only hockey skates in Calgary. They also make a ton of high end figure boots and we sell a lot of them in our shop to elite skaters. I'm not saying Graf Canada doesn't care about their hockey skate business. Its just that they have a few more irons in the fire than you may know about.

Darkstar - I actually pictured myself buying a pair when i was in your shop (i think it was a month ago) thought I could get them for a Rockfeller center winter skate after getting roasted chestnuts from a NY street vendor... but I was floored by the price.

However, I had included that in my Graf $ ideas (also I think most of the accounts are dual ones like your in-rink shop... although I have been to one rink in search of a pro shop about a month ago and realized they didn't even bother with hockey stuff - it ended up being a private skating club (all figure/dance stuff in the pro shop)...

still I would be willing to bet AK's Ebay auction price that Easton's annual baseball and softball business crushes Graf Canada's total lifetime revenue.

That wouldn't surprise me in the least - I am an avid softballer, and at $300+ / bat, Easton enjoys a pretty tidy profit just from softball bats along. I came very close to buying 735's this winter. They were a little more shallow than I like, and when I heard all the CS problems people were having, I decided to go with Vectors. I have owned CCM's, Missions, and NBH, and the cs has been absolutely top-notch with each. One would think that such a small, specialized company would put a great deal of stock into their customer satisfaction - guess not.

[DarkStar50 679]

If you skate in ONE90s, how can the price of a Graf skate floor you? Canadian made skates are never easy on the wallet, right?

Your second paragraph isn't very clear.

I would also expect Easton baseball/softball to be a higher number than Graf Canada. There are more people playing baseball/softball in the USA than there are people buying a niche brand skate, figure or hockey. Add in the fact that Easton also sells baseball/softball gloves and cleats to their balance sheet and your comparison is a bit silly.

I sell very few Graf hockey skates in the shop. They have lost their cult status here to the other brands. This keeps our problems with customer service with Graf to non-existent!

[sogaduch 0]

Graf's terrible website steered me away from their skates.

this is probably one of the least intelligent comments I read in this thread, how can the way a website and how it is made steer you away from a product? If that was the case then how can TPS be a very popular stick when there web page has just recently been updated after not being updated since 2004.

Also if you know the GRAF philosphy you will understand that there not a marketing company, there a product company. Granted they align there skates to the boot abit different since there belief is to align it to the center of the foot which may vary from skate to skate but in coming years GRAF will actualy stop setting there holders to the skate fully but allowing your LHS to align there skate to your foot alot easier, aswell if they are such a mickey mouse company why is it that there introducing a custom foot bed to be included free of charge with there Ultra G series skates and a trim to fit footbed in there 700/500 series skates where when you go buy a NBH product or Mission,CCM/RBK product all of the foot beds are exactly the same, now correct me if im wrong but wouldnt you expect this first from a shoe company like Nike and RBK. Granted thre shoe division is seperate from there skate operation but still wouldnt it be beneficia to the consumer to offer a custom style foot bed in a skate that is upwards to $800 CDN. Also note that how many skates are still made in Canada last I checked my wall theres only 1 skate made in canada by bauer and 2 skates made in canada by CCM/RBK where theres a good 8+ skates made in canada by GRAF.

Now also how often have you gone in your LHS more geared towards ur older players and they cant find a skate they used to wear before like a CCM 652 or a bauer 3000, those two companies are making new skates every 2 years just so people will spend money to get the latest and greatest skate but a person wearing Graf can walk into any GRAF retailer and buy skates they could have used 4-5 years ago and are reassured that when it comes time to buy new skates that skate will still be around and not discontinued leaving you having to readjust how you played before. Now as far as customer service goes from a retail stand point there very good, if I leave a message I get a call back a couple hours later or the next day, also if there is an issue I had one customer who purchased a pair of 735s and the teclite completley ripped, we sent them back to GRAF and the skates were replaced without question at all, same has happened with other customers skates we have had to send back granted at times they come back repaired but it doesnt look cheesy unlike a pair of Bauer skates we sent back that had to have the lining re-sewn to the boot and it literally looked like the skate was sewn by 5 yr olds the stiching colour wasnt the same and it wasnt smooth either. So alot of companies have bad customr services

[usahockey22 0]

No matter the great quality and great prices that you guys might think Graf has, if they don't back up their product with a solid warranty, support, and give customer satisfaction, then no one is going to invest the money in the skates. Not when you could spend the same amount (or even more) for bauers, eastons, or ccms, and know that you will be treated fairly if something goes wrong.

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

I will keep my opinions to myself, but I must admit that it is truly a blessing in disquise that I do not have a Graf account anymore. I'll leave it at that.

[greatone 0]

Graf's terrible website steered me away from their skates.

how often have you gone in your LHS more geared towards ur older players and they cant find a skate they used to wear before like a CCM 652 or a bauer 3000, those two companies are making new skates every 2 years just so people will spend money to get the latest and greatest skate but a person wearing Graf can walk into any GRAF retailer and buy skates they could have used 4-5 years ago and are reassured that when it comes time to buy new skates that skate will still be around and not discontinued leaving you having to readjust how you played before.

I disagree with your comment above. With technology the way it is today, who wants to wear a skate that you played with 4 or 5 years ago?? Not me. As far as adjusting, a couple of skates is all it takes. No big deal.

[Jarick 5]

Graf's terrible website steered me away from their skates.

this is probably one of the least intelligent comments I read in this thread, how can the way a website and how it is made steer you away from a product?

When only one LHS carries Graf and not a single skate on the shelf is under $400, and you can't find any information online about them, and the LHS doesn't know about their product line to make a recommendation, I can't make an informed decision.

I'm not going to spend $400 on a pair of skates I know nothing about. In today's age, you HAVE to run a decent website. I could compare the specs in the NBH line and decided to buy a pair of Vapor XIX's.

Now multiply that experience by many people and you will see why Graf is out of touch.

[sogaduch 0]

Graf's terrible website steered me away from their skates.

how often have you gone in your LHS more geared towards ur older players and they cant find a skate they used to wear before like a CCM 652 or a bauer 3000, those two companies are making new skates every 2 years just so people will spend money to get the latest and greatest skate but a person wearing Graf can walk into any GRAF retailer and buy skates they could have used 4-5 years ago and are reassured that when it comes time to buy new skates that skate will still be around and not discontinued leaving you having to readjust how you played before.

I disagree with your comment above. With technology the way it is today, who wants to wear a skate that you played with 4 or 5 years ago?? Not me. As far as adjusting, a couple of skates is all it takes. No big deal.

ask any mens league player who is used to skating in a pair of Lang plastic molded skates and got a pair of vapor XXX's but will refuse to wear them because he finds them too uncomfortable, also if nothing is broken why fix it is a quote that supports GRAFS choice in my mind to continue running models that have done great for them and there customers

[jokerit1967 0]

Also if you know the GRAF philosphy you will understand that there not a marketing company, there a product company. product all of the foot beds are exactly the same, now correct me if im wrong but wouldnt you expect this first from a shoe company like Nike and RBK. Granted thre shoe division is seperate from there skate operation but still wouldnt it be beneficia to the consumer to offer a custom style foot bed in a skate that is upwards to $800 CDN. Also note that how many skates are still made in Canada last I checked my wall theres only 1 skate made in canada by bauer and 2 skates made in canada by CCM/RBK where theres a good 8+ skates made in canada by GRAF.

retail stand point there very good, if I leave a message I get a call back a couple hours later or the next day, also if there is an issue I had one customer who purchased a pair of 735s So alot of companies have bad customr services

I do know of Graf's marketing strategy claim. They also seem to try to position themselves as a premium. Small premium companies or companies that try to pretend to be premium that are successful (in other areas of products outside of hockey) are measured to a higher standard for customer service...or even if you buy something at a premium store. this isn't a great example but I am in a hurry - i expect a lot better customer service from Nieman Marcus and Nordstrom for the same $15 whatever than buying the same $15 whatever at Target or Macys. sure a lot of big and small companies have bad customer service, but ...

actually it really doesn't matter. Supposedly they aren't doing very well (Graf Canada) - so hopefully things will run their due course.. or they will maybe get better. I own two pairs of Grafs myself, i did say (for some reason) that I like their products.

Also, treating the customer well is just as important as treating the retailer well.

[sogaduch 0]

Graf's terrible website steered me away from their skates.

this is probably one of the least intelligent comments I read in this thread, how can the way a website and how it is made steer you away from a product?

When only one LHS carries Graf and not a single skate on the shelf is under $400, and you can't find any information online about them, and the LHS doesn't know about their product line to make a recommendation, I can't make an informed decision.

I'm not going to spend $400 on a pair of skates I know nothing about. In today's age, you HAVE to run a decent website. I could compare the specs in the NBH line and decided to buy a pair of Vapor XIX's.

Now multiply that experience by many people and you will see why Graf is out of touch.

well one thing is that GRAF does not believe in selling there skate to anybody they only sell there product to people who believe in the GRAF philosophy, now granted it is hard to differentiate there skates without seeing a persons foot itself. Now how is GRAF out of touch when they have a very strong following of people. Also how can you bash a product when you have not worn or tried it on at all, GRAF is a compay that is geared towards skating since there products offer different fits for different feet.

Now a person posted earlier about wanting to get a pair of 709's but may not due to this thread, well if his foot is geared for a 709 boot then this person may find it hard to find a skate that will fit his style foot for depth and width since te 709 is the deepest and widest boot out there aside from custom

[jokerit1967 0]

well one thing is that GRAF does not believe in selling there skate to anybody they only sell there product to people who believe in the GRAF philosophy, now granted it is hard to differentiate there skates without seeing a persons foot itself. Now how is GRAF out of touch when they have a very strong following of people. Also how can you bash a product when you have not worn or tried it on at all, GRAF is a compay that is geared towards skating since there products offer different fits for different feet.

Now a person posted earlier about wanting to get a pair of 709's but may not due to this thread, well if his foot is geared for a 709 boot then this person may find it hard to find a skate that will fit his style foot for depth and width since te 709 is the deepest and widest boot out there aside from custom

well for myself - i do like their products... and I think of Graf as Graf AG (Switzerland). I just want someone else to takeover for North America. To clarify - I am likely to buy another pair for the hell of it. I've got old 703's and new 709's. you could maybe analogize (nota great analogy) my "attack" as being pro-Apple Inc. hating the John Scully era, and waiting for Steve Jobs to return. My attack comes from being pro the Graf Brand, but anti-Graf Canada.

[Jarick 5]

I'm not bashing a product, I'm bashing the way the company is operating in my area and reaching out to me as a consumer. I'm not an expert, I'm a consumer, and I appreciate a company that provides me with the information I need to make a decision.

The telling thing to me is that I don't see kids wearing Graf, I see kids wearing NBH and Rbk/CCM. I see Graf on the old guys at pickup.

If Graf wants to be successful in this market, they will have to do two of three things:

Provide a great product

Price it competitively

Market their product well

Right now they're doing one.

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

Look at the NHL 10 yrs ago and look at it now. They have so few players in their skates. Don't use that argument that players get money to wear gear, because it's just not going to work. It was a great skate 10 yrs ago (and it still is if that is what you want), but the market is shifting towards technology. Time has passed them by.

[Zamboni 6]

Edit

[epstud74 24]

Look at the NHL 10 yrs ago and look at it now. They have so few players in their skates. Don't use that argument that players get money to wear gear, because it's just not going to work. It was a great skate 10 yrs ago (and it still is if that is what you want), but the market is shifting towards technology. Time has passed them by.

Graf still has some excellent technology and if you're truly a great skater, it shouldnt make a difference if you're in Graf 707s or Vapor XXXXs. What Graf doesnt seem to realize is, that their marketing ideals or philosophy will not work in North America as in Europe.