Bonds Biographer speaks out

[mik3 1]

it's hard to knock the guy.

actually, it's quite simple. i'll give it a whirl...

He cheated. And now he will get credit for one of baseball's most sacred records which he doesn't deserve.

Oh I'm sorry, I must have been living under a rock when he tested positive for something and was suspended.

What's funny is ESPN will kill Bonds but celebrate other players who are just as obviously on something.

PEDs also must have made him steal 500+ bases, or have a .444 career obp.

[Flack38 0]

it's hard to knock the guy.

actually, it's quite simple. i'll give it a whirl...

He cheated. And now he will get credit for one of baseball's most sacred records which he doesn't deserve.

Oh I'm sorry, I must have been living under a rock when he tested positive for something and was suspended.

What's funny is ESPN will kill Bonds but celebrate other players who are just as obviously on something.

PEDs also must have made him steal 500+ bases, or have a .444 career obp.

Exactly, no positive test, and he admitted taking cream and clear thinking they were Flaxseed oil and ointments to help his knee. Both items are nothing more than cutting agents. I don't think a 6 week cycle of cutting gels are going to help you put up those kinds of numbers, even if he did mean to take them.

So outside of no positive test and some cutting gel all people have to go on is his increased size.

Barry Bonds: Rookie Weight - 185lbs, Current 240lbs

A gain of 55 SOFT pounds over 21 years. (ask yourself how many pounds you've gained in 20 years)

A-Rod: Rookie Weight - 190lbs, Current 225lbs

A gain of 35 LEAN pounds over 14+ Years (first full season wasn't until 1994)

Had to make an edit, I had Barry's weight at 225lbs, but Giants have it at 240lbs. He was 230 in 2001 when he hit 73, a gain of 45 pounds in 15 years.

[mack 44]

The good thing is we can have some of you confirm the effects on his testicles since you're caressing the shit out of them here.

[LegoDoom 0]

Exactly, no positive test, and he admitted taking cream and clear thinking they were Flaxseed oil and ointments to help his knee. Both items are nothing more than cutting agents. I don't think a 6 week cycle of cutting gels are going to help you put up those kinds of numbers, even if he did mean to take them.

So outside of no positive test and some cutting gel all people have to go on is his increased size.

Barry Bonds: Rookie Weight - 185lbs, Current 240lbs

A gain of 55 SOFT pounds over 21 years. (ask yourself how many pounds you've gained in 20 years)

So, he took a bunch of cutting agents and put on soft pounds?

Yeah, he looks flabby to me.

[Flack38 0]

The good thing is we can have some of you confirm the effects on his testicles since you're caressing the shit out of them here.

Good thing the king of sarcasm is here with nothing constructive to add to a good forum conversation.

Exactly, no positive test, and he admitted taking cream and clear thinking they were Flaxseed oil and ointments to help his knee. Both items are nothing more than cutting agents. I don't think a 6 week cycle of cutting gels are going to help you put up those kinds of numbers, even if he did mean to take them.

So outside of no positive test and some cutting gel all people have to go on is his increased size.

Barry Bonds: Rookie Weight - 185lbs, Current 240lbs

A gain of 55 SOFT pounds over 21 years. (ask yourself how many pounds you've gained in 20 years)

So, he took a bunch of cutting agents and put on soft pounds?

Yeah, he looks flabby to me.

yeah, do you see his gut and chest?, the mass in his chest is pushed out to the sides and bottoms but lacking in the middle (flabby chest) and his stomach comes out further than his chest (aka... a gut)

Try not to be impressed with someone that has the body of a night club bouncer.

[Jason Harris 31]

it's hard to knock the guy.

actually, it's quite simple. i'll give it a whirl...

He cheated. And now he will get credit for one of baseball's most sacred records which he doesn't deserve.

I think you're misunderstanding. I believe for most of us, there is enough evidence to claim he's a jerk and he took steroids. The only point I was making is he was on pace to be among the discussions for Top 5 players of all time BEFORE he took steroids, so it's unfathomable why he risked his reputation with the extracurricular ingredients.

[LegoDoom 0]

yeah, do you see his gut and chest?, the mass in his chest is pushed out to the sides and bottoms but lacking in the middle (flabby chest) and his stomach comes out further than his chest (aka... a gut)

Try not to be impressed with someone that has the body of a night club bouncer.

And I suppose his shoulders and neck didn't get any bigger, he probably just left the hanger in when he put on his jersey.

[Flack38 0]

yeah, do you see his gut and chest?, the mass in his chest is pushed out to the sides and bottoms but lacking in the middle (flabby chest) and his stomach comes out further than his chest (aka... a gut)

Try not to be impressed with someone that has the body of a night club bouncer.

And I suppose his shoulders and neck didn't get any bigger, he probably just left the hanger in when he put on his jersey.

Pro athelets aren't allowed to pack on poor quality muscle anymore over the course of 21 seasons?

[LegoDoom 0]

it's hard to knock the guy.

actually, it's quite simple. i'll give it a whirl...

He cheated. And now he will get credit for one of baseball's most sacred records which he doesn't deserve.

I think you're misunderstanding. I believe for most of us, there is enough evidence to claim he's a jerk and he took steroids. The only point I was making is he was on pace to be among the discussions for Top 5 players of all time BEFORE he took steroids, so it's unfathomable why he risked his reputation with the extracurricular ingredients.

But taking steriods prolonged his career and allowed him to produce at a higher level when he should have been declining. Without steriods, he would have had lower stats and most likely would have missed a lot more time because of injuries (nagging or serious ones).

Keeping up the level of production and getting to certain milestones is what measures great players in the long run. If Griffey never got injured, I'm sure he'd be ranked ahead of Bonds (in HRs and in the GOAT rankings). Just because Bonds was on pace to be considered one of the greatest of all time, doesn't mean he would have if he never took steriods.

[mack 44]

The good thing is we can have some of you confirm the effects on his testicles since you're caressing the shit out of them here.

Good thing the king of sarcasm is here with nothing constructive to add to a good forum conversation.

I forgot you were the guy who didn't know what "conspiracy to commit" meant. I'll leave you be now so you can "smarten up" the discussion some more.

[Jason Harris 31]

yeah, do you see his gut and chest?, the mass in his chest is pushed out to the sides and bottoms but lacking in the middle (flabby chest) and his stomach comes out further than his chest (aka... a gut)

Dennis Rodman's stomach came out further than his chest, but he had a six pack. On a personal note, when I had under 7% body fat (many eons ago! :lol: ), my stomach was in front of my chest, due to the curve of my lower back.

Regarding his chest, flabby chests droop, they don't push out to the sides.

He might not be 4% body fat ripped, but he's also a far cry from 20%.

[LegoDoom 0]

yeah, do you see his gut and chest?, the mass in his chest is pushed out to the sides and bottoms but lacking in the middle (flabby chest) and his stomach comes out further than his chest (aka... a gut)

Try not to be impressed with someone that has the body of a night club bouncer.

And I suppose his shoulders and neck didn't get any bigger, he probably just left the hanger in when he put on his jersey.

Pro athelets aren't allowed to pack on poor quality muscle anymore over the course of 21 seasons?

Ok, name me one baseball player that's added 50 pounds of "poor quality" muscle over the course of a few seasons and coincidentally doubled his HR output.

And while you're doing that, please find me a credible article that says lean muscle mass improves the ability to hit a baseball more consistently.

[Flack38 0]

The good thing is we can have some of you confirm the effects on his testicles since you're caressing the shit out of them here.

Good thing the king of sarcasm is here with nothing constructive to add to a good forum conversation.

I forgot you were the guy who didn't know what "conspiracy to commit" meant. I'll leave you be now so you can "smarten up" the discussion some more.

I'm sure everyone on this forum knows what conspiracy means including myself, my issue with it was lack of evidence other than the words of a dog killer (or another dog killer, depending on how the trail plays out) If he is guilty I sure as hell hope 6 years of evidence will prove so and a 6 year investigation isn't based on word of mouth testimony.

By the way isn't this a bit off topic?

[Jason Harris 31]

But taking steriods prolonged his career and allowed him to produce at a higher level when he should have been declining. Without steriods, he would have had lower stats and most likely would have missed a lot more time because of injuries (nagging or serious ones).

Keeping up the level of production and getting to certain milestones is what measures great players in the long run. If Griffey never got injured, I'm sure he'd be ranked ahead of Bonds (in HRs and in the GOAT rankings). Just because Bonds was on pace to be considered one of the greatest of all time, doesn't mean he would have if he never took steriods.

I understand what you are saying, but most people assume he began taking steroids prior to the 2001 season. At that point, he had 494 HRs and 471 steals. We have to assume he would have easily picked up 6 homers and likely had 29 steals even with nagging injuries. Again, no one has ever been close to that combination of speed and power. Add to it 8 Gold Gloves and 3 MVP's and he'd be in any conversation for the greatest ever.

Which is why I keep going back to why was he willing to risk so much?

But you're right about Griffey. He'd be in the upper 600's if he hadn't have missed so much time. Add to that his Gold Gloves and that's another player who'd be in the discussion for GOAT.

[ktang 34]

But taking steriods prolonged his career and allowed him to produce at a higher level when he should have been declining. Without steriods, he would have had lower stats and most likely would have missed a lot more time because of injuries (nagging or serious ones).

Keeping up the level of production and getting to certain milestones is what measures great players in the long run. If Griffey never got injured, I'm sure he'd be ranked ahead of Bonds (in HRs and in the GOAT rankings). Just because Bonds was on pace to be considered one of the greatest of all time, doesn't mean he would have if he never took steriods.

I understand what you are saying, but most people assume he began taking steroids prior to the 2001 season. At that point, he had 494 HRs and 471 steals. We have to assume he would have easily picked up 6 homers and likely had 29 steals even with nagging injuries. Again, no one has ever been close to that combination of speed and power. Add to it 8 Gold Gloves and 3 MVP's and he'd be in any conversation for the greatest ever.

Which is why I keep going back to why was he willing to risk so much?

But you're right about Griffey. He'd be in the upper 600's if he hadn't have missed so much time. Add to that his Gold Gloves and that's another player who'd be in the discussion for GOAT.

He didn't think that he could ever be caught (baseball wasn't serious about steroid testing back then, and the BALCO products were supposed to be ahead of detection technologically).

And, he saw the attention that McGwire and Sosa got during that summer. Is that when Bonds started getting bigger? Anyways, ego. Despite Bonds being a 5-tool baseball player, all the attention went to McGwire. To be the most popular, Bonds had to break McGwire's record.

[Flack38 0]

yeah, do you see his gut and chest?, the mass in his chest is pushed out to the sides and bottoms but lacking in the middle (flabby chest) and his stomach comes out further than his chest (aka... a gut)

Try not to be impressed with someone that has the body of a night club bouncer.

And I suppose his shoulders and neck didn't get any bigger, he probably just left the hanger in when he put on his jersey.

Pro athelets aren't allowed to pack on poor quality muscle anymore over the course of 21 seasons?

Ok, name me one baseball player that's added 50 pounds of "poor quality" muscle over the course of a few seasons and coincidentally doubled his HR output.

And while you're doing that, please find me a credible article that says lean muscle mass improves the ability to hit a baseball more consistently.

A few years = 21 years. I've been in enough gyms to see guys go through a years worth of cycles of d-bol and put on 40 pounds of muscle in a single year, I've seen guys take nothing but whey and cell tech and put on 25 pounds in a year. 50 soft pounds over 21 seasons of baseball is nothing.

[mack 44]

That is incredibly naive to assume that he put that weight on over that span. He was the same build in the early 90s as he was his rookie season.

[Flack38 0]

yeah, do you see his gut and chest?, the mass in his chest is pushed out to the sides and bottoms but lacking in the middle (flabby chest) and his stomach comes out further than his chest (aka... a gut)

Dennis Rodman's stomach came out further than his chest, but he had a six pack. On a personal note, when I had under 7% body fat (many eons ago! :lol: ), my stomach was in front of my chest, due to the curve of my lower back.

Regarding his chest, flabby chests droop, they don't push out to the sides.

He might not be 4% body fat ripped, but he's also a far cry from 20%.

In that picture barry is close to pushing a good 17%, I'm sure hes at 20 now, his fat has shape to it, did you see him dress up as Paula earlier this year? He was a freakin' fattie whompus

[LegoDoom 0]

I understand what you are saying, but most people assume he began taking steroids prior to the 2001 season. At that point, he had 494 HRs and 471 steals. We have to assume he would have easily picked up 6 homers and likely had 29 steals even with nagging injuries. Again, no one has ever been close to that combination of speed and power. Add to it 8 Gold Gloves and 3 MVP's and he'd be in any conversation for the greatest ever.

Which is why I keep going back to why was he willing to risk so much?

But you're right about Griffey. He'd be in the upper 600's if he hadn't have missed so much time. Add to that his Gold Gloves and that's another player who'd be in the discussion for GOAT.

Would he have been a hall of famer before the '01 season? Yes. But greatest of all time is partially a popularity contest and Barry wouldn't be winning any of those awards. And if you don't believe that to be the case, check out Ty Cobbs numbers. They're amazing as it is, but compare them to the players that played at the time and he should be right up there. The problem is, he had the wrong kind of legend associated with him because of his personality.

And I know Bonds is a good fielder, but I don't put a lot of stock in Gold Gloves.

[Flack38 0]

That is incredibly naive to assume that he put that weight on over that span. He was the same build in the early 90s as he was his rookie season.

no it wasn't, I've looked at cards from his rookie year up until now. There was a progression IMO. I'm not saying he DIDN'T roid up, I'm just saying its possible he didn't. To be honest I don't care either way as long as he crushes the ball when he plays. The ONLY time I watch baseball is during the world series and Barry's current AB's.

Watching Baseball is just as bad as watching a Devil's vs Flyers game pre and post left wing lock era and.... let's say.... Gay midget porn (don't ask)

[LegoDoom 0]

In that picture barry is close to pushing a good 17%, I'm sure hes at 20 now, his fat has shape to it, did you see him dress up as Paula earlier this year? He was a freakin' fattie whompus

You're right, his fat does have shape to it. It's shaped like once steriod filled muscles.

That is incredibly naive to assume that he put that weight on over that span. He was the same build in the early 90s as he was his rookie season.

no it wasn't, I've looked at cards from his rookie year up until now. There was a progression IMO. I'm not saying he DIDN'T roid up, I'm just saying its possible he didn't. To be honest I don't care either way as long as he crushes the ball when he plays. The ONLY time I watch baseball is during the world series and Barry's current AB's.

Watching Baseball is just as bad as watching a Devil's vs Flyers game pre and post left wing lock era and.... let's say.... Gay midget porn (don't ask)

It's fans like you that are the reason baseball looked the other way with steriods. You're missing a lot of baseball if all you're watching for is the homeruns.

[Flack38 0]

FATTIE WHOMPUS, I WOULD THROW TWINKIES AT HIM!

[mack 44]

Plus you missed a lot of Bonds if all you watch is playoff baseball. UP TOP!

[Flack38 0]

In that picture barry is close to pushing a good 17%, I'm sure hes at 20 now, his fat has shape to it, did you see him dress up as Paula earlier this year? He was a freakin' fattie whompus

You're right, his fat does have shape to it. It's shaped like once steriod filled muscles.

That is incredibly naive to assume that he put that weight on over that span. He was the same build in the early 90s as he was his rookie season.

no it wasn't, I've looked at cards from his rookie year up until now. There was a progression IMO. I'm not saying he DIDN'T roid up, I'm just saying its possible he didn't. To be honest I don't care either way as long as he crushes the ball when he plays. The ONLY time I watch baseball is during the world series and Barry's current AB's.

Watching Baseball is just as bad as watching a Devil's vs Flyers game pre and post left wing lock era and.... let's say.... Gay midget porn (don't ask)

It's fans like you that are the reason baseball looked the other way with steriods. You're missing a lot of baseball if all you're watching for is the homeruns.

HA, you must not have heard me, Baseball to me is on par with GAY MIDGET PORN!

Sure I'll watch it, not because I get off on it but because its a freak show. The same reason why people watch hockey for fights and hits.

[mack 44]

You...watch gay midget porn.