300/500/756

[mik3 1]

You're right, every ball he's hit in the last 9 years has gone out all because of steroids. I forgot that he had david eckstein-esque hr rates before then.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

never said all of them wouldnt have gone out. he would have hit home runs, but he brought the controversy upon himself

[Chadd 916]

Career home run numbers:

1986 16

1987 25

1988 24

1989 19

1990 33

1991 25

1992 34

1993 46

1994 37

1995 33

1996 42

1997 40

1998 37

1999 34

2000 49

2001 73

2002 46

2003 45

2004 45

2005 5 in 14 games

2006 26

2007 22 in 98 games

[mack 44]

In that context it just looks like he had a Very Brady Anderson season, but at least didn't fall off the face of the planet afterwards.

[Jason Harris 31]

I believe the HR ratio was fairly similar in the ensuing years. It was all the walks that drove his plate appearances down after 73. He had four years above .500 OBP, one of which was over .600, and this year is just under .500.

[Chadd 916]

He was 34 in 99 when his power numbers really started to increase. He played almost 160 games in each of the three previous years, then only 105 in 99.

[sabre09923 0]

Plate appearances per HR:

'86: 29.9

'87: 24.2

'88: 25.4

'89: 35.4

'90: 18.5

'91: 25.7

'92: 17.6

'93: 14.4

'94: 12.6 (STRIKE YEAR)

'95: 19

'96: 15.9

'97: 16.9

'98: 18.4

'99: 12.6

'00: 12.1

'01: 9 (73 HR)

'02: 13

'03: 11.9

'04: 13.4

'05: 10.4* (only 14 games)

'06: 18.5

'07: 16.7

Like Chadd said, he had a huge spike in HR in 99, clocking at 12.6 PA/HR.

Hank Aaron hit, for his career, 1 HR for every 18 plate appearances, and Barry has hit one for every 16 plate appearances.

EDIT: Added Barry's career PA/HR.

[Jason Harris 31]

I was off on the HR ratio but, wow, steroids or no steroids, he was locked in in 2001.

[mrusse01 0]

so i just saw the HR... ha... i find it ironic that 756 barely made it over the fence. no juice, no 756

Uhh...barely made it over the fence? That ball was CRUSHED.

The current AL HR leader, A-Rod, has had only two of his 36 home runs this year travel farther than 441 feet, which is how far #756 went. Ryan Howard has also only hit two further than 441 feet, Junior Griffey's best is 430 feet.

The average distance of a HR this season in MLB is 394 feet.

Barry Bonds has the longest avg. HR distance of anyone in baseball this season.

So what is the argument now? He is off steroids but still hitting the ball further than anyone in baseball, still leading the league in OPS, OPS+, BB, IBB, and is second in HR/AB. Hmm..that's weird. Or is it that he is actually still on steroids even though he has never failed a drug test? Or maybe it's the untraceable HGH he's on which as I have referenced earlier has zero evidence to suggest it even makes you stronger, much less better at hitting a baseball.

[sabre09923 0]

Looking at those numbers, it's quite freakish that NOW he's having a better year (HR wise) than any year before '93.

The plate appearances are AB+Walks+HBP, btw.

EDIT: And mrusse, just because he hasn't been caught doesn't mean he's not/he wasn't on them. Otherwise, biking would be a clean sport; the reality is that 75% of bikers are on performance enhancing drugs. Have 75% of bikers been caught? No.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

^^ i've said it before, distance from the wall is what make as it a HR. I wouldnt say anything if it went to a part of the park where the fence was 340ft. Same exact hit, 20ft shorter or whatever it was... not a home run.

[mrusse01 0]

^^ i've said it before, distance from the wall is what make as it a HR. I wouldnt say anything if it went to a part of the park where the fence was 340ft. Same exact hit, 20ft shorter or whatever it was... not a home run.

That doesn't make any sense.

And it still doesn't answer the question, is Bonds still on steroids? If so, how is he not testing postive, if not how did he hit that ball 440+ feet?

EDIT: And mrusse, just because he hasn't been caught doesn't mean he's not/he wasn't on them. Otherwise, biking would be a clean sport; the reality is that 75% of bikers are on performance enhancing drugs. Have 75% of bikers been caught? No.

This doesn't make sense either. The reality is 75% of bikers on are PED's? Wow. Did you just make that number up, or is that 'reality'?

I'm not trying to be a dick, but this whole issue is just RAMPANT with people making things up out of thin air.

"Barry Bonds took steroids...look how much muscle he has put on..look how many HR's he hit....therefore it must be true". Don't bother with minor details such as the fact that he has never once failed a drug test his entire life, or the fact that despite a Congressional hearing into the matter as well as a full blown investigation by both MLB and federal prosecutors, nobody has ever formally charged Barry Bonds with anything. I don't want to get into another argument about it (and if I had to bet on it I would say he probably has knowingly taken steroids), but just think about what hasn't happened to Barry Bonds before you go around with such certainty on the issue.

[mik3 1]

Article that totally kills that Bonds brace BS.

It's also funny that the doctor said there's been minimal change in his arm since 92, and Rickey's the most muscular guy he's made something for.

And, about bitching over the distance of his HRs.

You do know that if steroids were to help anything, it helps those warning track shots to LF in fenway that'd be off the wall before, now go over.

When you connect with a ball that goes that far it's way more your bat speed and the pitch speed than anything else.

Longest HR I've EVER seen hit was by Juan Encarnacion when he was with Detroit. 160lbs, hit the ball halfway up the CF bleachers in Yankee stadium. HAS TO BE ON SOMETHING OBVIOUSLY.

[sabre09923 0]

^^ i've said it before, distance from the wall is what make as it a HR. I wouldnt say anything if it went to a part of the park where the fence was 340ft. Same exact hit, 20ft shorter or whatever it was... not a home run.

That doesn't make any sense.

And it still doesn't answer the question, is Bonds still on steroids? If so, how is he not testing postive, if not how did he hit that ball 440+ feet?

EDIT: And mrusse, just because he hasn't been caught doesn't mean he's not/he wasn't on them. Otherwise, biking would be a clean sport; the reality is that 75% of bikers are on performance enhancing drugs. Have 75% of bikers been caught? No.

This doesn't make sense either. The reality is 75% of bikers on are PED's? Wow. Did you just make that number up, or is that 'reality'?

I'm not trying to be a dick, but this whole issue is just RAMPANT with people making things up out of thin air.

"Barry Bonds took steroids...look how much muscle he has put on..look how many HR's he hit....therefore it must be true". Don't bother with minor details such as the fact that he has never once failed a drug test his entire life, or the fact that despite a Congressional hearing into the matter as well as a full blown investigation by both MLB and federal prosecutors, nobody has ever formally charged Barry Bonds with anything. I don't want to get into another argument about it (and if I had to bet on it I would say he probably has knowingly taken steroids), but just think about what hasn't happened to Barry Bonds before you go around with such certainty on the issue.

Okay, you called my BS effectively, but I was making a point. The point is; biking ISN'T a clean sport. Many of those athletes haven't failed a drug test, but it's known that many of them are on PED's. They stay a step ahead of the drug testers every time, and the one's that fail the test get booted. It's not inconceivable that Barry could be doing the same thing with PED's, staying ahead of the drug testing. You never know.

But then again, we don't know how many PITCHERS were on steroids either. I mean, it would probably help them more with their recovery time between outings.

It's also a huge irony that Clay Hensley (guy who gave up 755) used PED's in the minor leagues last year.

[mrusse01 0]

Hit Tracker

Really sweet website that analyzes distances HR's travel. The link to a discussion on 'historic' HR's is awesome. Teddy Ballgame cranked one some 520 odd feet at Fenway...I guess he was juicing.

The whole Bonds brace argument is interesting, I read the first one claiming it helped him hit but the second one is only a teaser, need a subscription to read it all.

[mrusse01 0]

Okay, you called my BS effectively, but I was making a point. The point is; biking ISN'T a clean sport. Many of those athletes haven't failed a drug test, but it's known that many of them are on PED's. They stay a step ahead of the drug testers every time, and the one's that fail the test get booted.

See, here's the problem...how do we know many of these bikers are on PEDs but just haven't failed a drug test yet? We don't know that.

The problem with steroids is you cannot prove you are NOT taking them even if you pass a test because then people like you (and others, not trying to single you out) just say 'well he just hasn't been caught yet' or 'he is one step ahead of the testing'.

So for whatever reason people seem to fall into the trap of using completely arbitrary and inconclusive evidence like 'well he looks like he is juicing' or 'he never hit that many HR's before this point in time, so he must have started taking PED's'. Add to this all kinds of swirling rumors from questionable sources and all of a sudden you have a situation where we just jump ahead and assume a player took steroids (Bonds) and start to talk about how much it affected his numbers, as opposed to actually looking at the question of did he actually take them.

I'm not saying Bonds did or didn't take PED's (I've said before I would guess that he did) I'm just saying I wish the media and fans would approach the situation with a little less certainty than seems to be the case now.

[Chadd 916]

Hit Tracker

Really sweet website that analyzes distances HR's travel. The link to a discussion on 'historic' HR's is awesome. Teddy Ballgame cranked one some 520 odd feet at Fenway...I guess he was juicing.

The whole Bonds brace argument is interesting, I read the first one claiming it helped him hit but the second one is only a teaser, need a subscription to read it all.

One hit is a statistical anomaly. Avoid invoking specious claims like this and more people will take you seriously.

[RadioGaGa 162]

Oh, someday on the big diamond in the sky... Babe, Bonds and Cy will all share a hooker and a beer and laugh about this whole thing.

[mrusse01 0]

Hit Tracker

Really sweet website that analyzes distances HR's travel. The link to a discussion on 'historic' HR's is awesome. Teddy Ballgame cranked one some 520 odd feet at Fenway...I guess he was juicing.

The whole Bonds brace argument is interesting, I read the first one claiming it helped him hit but the second one is only a teaser, need a subscription to read it all.

One hit is a statistical anomaly. Avoid invoking specious claims like this and more people will take you seriously.

Dude, are you serious?

You really think I was using that HR as an argument that TED WILLIAMS IN 1946 used steroids, haha?

Bonds vs. Mantle: Who is the greater disappointment?

Really intersting article on ESPN2, who is a bigger disappointment, Bonds for (allegedly) taking steroids to prolong and enhance his career, or Mantle for drinking himself out of the game and to his death and robbing history of what might have been?

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

The Mick had a problem, and battled it for most of his life. Bonds' problem was being great wasnt good enough for him.

i dont understand how people can defend a total dick, who cheated. he ADMITTED he cheated in front of a grand jury. He said he took 'the cream and the clear'. he 'allegedly' just didn't know it was steroids. drop the whole 'you cant prove he juiced' argument. Federal grand jury testimony shows he did. end of story.

because of that, anything he does is suspect. ANYTHING. he brought that upon himself, and is impossible to defend against.

[mik3 1]

In Mantle's defense he supposedly didn't start drinking heavily till he destroyed his knee in 1951 thanks to Joe D being a glory-whore. So he was already on a slippery slope.

I'm surprised that, since his death, there haven't been numerous books written about how much of a cunt Dimaggio was.

[mrusse01 0]

I agree, I think it is a bit out there seeing as you can get addicted to drinking whereas I don't think you can really be addicted to steroids, but I thought it was a unique article.

[Chadd 916]

Hit Tracker

Really sweet website that analyzes distances HR's travel. The link to a discussion on 'historic' HR's is awesome. Teddy Ballgame cranked one some 520 odd feet at Fenway...I guess he was juicing.

The whole Bonds brace argument is interesting, I read the first one claiming it helped him hit but the second one is only a teaser, need a subscription to read it all.

One hit is a statistical anomaly. Avoid invoking specious claims like this and more people will take you seriously.

Dude, are you serious?

You really think I was using that HR as an argument that TED WILLIAMS IN 1946 used steroids, haha?

Bonds vs. Mantle: Who is the greater disappointment?

Really intersting article on ESPN2, who is a bigger disappointment, Bonds for (allegedly) taking steroids to prolong and enhance his career, or Mantle for drinking himself out of the game and to his death and robbing history of what might have been?

The point, that you obviously missed, was that the whole thing was irrelevant to the topic at hand. Comparing the accusation that Bonds is hitting the ball consistently farther thanks to modern pharmacology with guys who hit one ball really far is just asinine.

As for the article, there is a difference between human frailty (alcohol addiction) and cheating to be the best (steroids).

[Cavs019 708]

You become addicted to the results, not the steroids themselves.

[mrusse01 0]

The point, that you obviously missed, was that the whole thing was irrelevant to the topic at hand. Comparing the accusation that Bonds is hitting the ball consistently farther thanks to modern pharmacology with guys who hit one ball really far is just asinine.

As for the article, there is a difference between human frailty (alcohol addiction) and cheating to be the best (steroids).

The comparison being made was that Barry Bonds himself had lost distance on his home runs due to the fact that he apparently isn't on PEDs any longer. I used hit tracker to show that Bonds still hits home runs farther than just about anyone in baseball, and to futher ram home the idea that anyone who thinks 756 was a cheap home run is laughable.

I linked hit tracker because it is cool site and unlike most people on here I didn't want it to seem as if I was randomly making up statistics. I wasn't comparing historical batters such as Ted Williams to Barry Bonds or anything like that.