2008 NYR Thread

[mack 44]

I hate the Rangers and more than that, the promotion of incest in the Atlantic but I would definitely be okay with the Devils dealing Elias to the Rangers if they wanted him. I would be okay if they got Shanny back in the deal, too.

[MR.Bobby.Orr 0]

Man, I love Avery, but maybe he is becoming a cancer. I don't know what it is with this team but they are killing me. All I can say is, the Rangers won the presidents trophy in 91 and then missed the playoffs the next season and then won a cup.

Did anyone notice valiquette started two games in a row on Sat and Sun. I think King Henrik needs a wakeup call. There have been rumors some rangers are taking advantage of all NYC has to offer just a bit too much if you know what I mean. NYC is amazing when your young and rich. No one knows who but my feeling is it's lundqvist, avery and some of the young guys maybe even jagr.

[#96 0]

I hate the Rangers and more than that, the promotion of incest in the Atlantic but I would definitely be okay with the Devils dealing Elias to the Rangers if they wanted him. I would be okay if they got Shanny back in the deal, too.

People leave the Devils, they don't go back. From the swamp to the ghetto, who wants to be a part of that?

[mack 44]

They come back. It just turns out horrible, like Albelin and Mogilny.

[Fury of One 6]

I dunno, MacLean seems to be a decent coach.

[mack 44]

Well that really wouldn't work when talking about players coming back as....players.

[Fury of One 6]

True, I was kinda half joking, but wasn't Albelin coaching or something and he decided to play again? I don't remember exactly.

[mack 44]

I have no clue, but your point also rings true since Larry Robinson's been back about 23 times and it hasn't worked out well. Truth be told though, I mean it wasn't like anyone could expect Albelin to be worth anything. I just hope the rumours of Holik coming back aren't true. But I'll step out and not smut the Rangers thread up with any more Devils talk.

[Theo 1]

Maybe after 3 years you can finally say you had a point on Jagr, 96. Sure, I still like the guy and he is working hard, IMO, but it is like his hands and shot completely left him. I'll give you that he has disappointed, but he is still one of the best Ranger trades we have made and did us proud for a few years. It even killed Brooks to write that article as easily seen, and he doesn't warm up to many.

[Theo 1]

The NY media can be as bad as anyone in wreaking players who deserve it, so I show yet another article (next to (96's) on Jagr:

In the midst of this Jaromir Jagr scoring drought, with opinions chiming in from every direction—dump him, light a fire under him, offer him a job as a Madison Square Garden hot dog vendor—what I can’t get past is how I find the whole situation sad.

Look, I understand the need to villify Jagr. Once seen as a moody, highly paid superstar, now he’s seen as a moody, highly paid superstar who doesn’t score any goals.

As recently as last week, I still saw Jagr as a player who, while not dominating games like he used to, was still a couple of fortuitous bounces away from going on a tear.

Now it’s clear Jagr is struggling. Maybe a step slower, maybe not as strong as used to, he often either tries to take on players one-on-one and coughs up the puck, or worse, concedes that he can’t beat players on his own and defers to his teammates.

The guy is trying. If you don’t see that, you’re not watching. But that, too, is sad. It’s sad to see a brilliant, once overpowering talent like Jagr barreling to the net, wacking away at pucks and watching the puck squirt out of his reach. It’s sad to see a guy work hard after practice and still not have anything to show for it.

Larry Brooks was right yesterday when he said Glen Sather at least has to find out what’s out there for Jagr before the trade deadline.

How can you not? If the player’s contract is going to expire at the end of the season anyway—84 points doesn’t look like it’s going to happen—then you owe it to the future of your team to see what you can fetch in return. But Brooks’ other point seemed to be if Sather can’t bring in anything substantial in return, then it’s not a deal worth making. And sadly, given the rut Jagr is in, other GMs likely aren’t salivating like they used to.

More likely, the Rangers will hold on to their captain, allow him to still attract attention from opposing defensemen, and hope his teammates continue to benefit as a result. And, of course, they hope that he can get going, too.

It’s not impossible. The guy is still an enormous talent, and he will still be an essential player to the Rangers down the stretch. What’s sad, though, is that I even have to make that point.

There was a time not so long ago when that went without saying.

I think it speaks volumes in the support or at least respect he has garnered from this group. Of course they are also saying that a trade which may should happen, but the articles all show sincere respect

[WhiskeyTango19 0]

I agree with some of the above posts. Jagr is/was a tremendous talent. But the same could also be said for Eric Lindros. Guys get old, injured too often etc... As sad is it is for the Shirts, I really would like to peddle Jagr, and see if you can get some youth for him in return. I would also like to see Shanny stick around another year and wear the "C". The club has a nice balance of youth and veteran leadership, with some pretty sweet talent as well. It's time to say goodbye and thank you to 68.

[#96 0]

I don't doubt that Jags tries. It's how hard he actually tries that I have always questioned.

Look at how he back checks. His idea of a back check is to take two strides, coast, and then lean way out with his stick and almost get a hooking penalty every time. That's not hustle, that's doing it because I don't want to look like I'm not trying. Look at him go into the corners for pucks. The effort just isn't there. He doesn't control the boards and protect the puck with his size anymore. Guys are quicker and are working a lot harder than he is.

I'm willing to give him a pass on the fact that anyone who has guys jumping on his back for years and years, hooks-holds-grabs-throws, is going to wear on your body. He still has excellent skills and was certainly one of the most skilled players to ever play they game. But it's time to go.

All you guys shot back at me and said to shut up and you're just complaining, and you aren't watching the game because Jagr is doing everything he can, but clearly I wasn't wrong. This is his team and he's not leading it very well. In the off season we were told they were going to get a few acquisitions that would make this team contenders for the Cup. That's not happening. This is a disappointing year, and I'm sorry, you wear the C, you're the face of the team. Fingers get pointed at you.

I also think Renney has cow-tailed to his every whim and that's not good either. I know dealing with him can be very difficult, but bending over for him isn't the right thing to do either. He has had a history of bad relationships with coaches and I think even got some of them fired, single-handedly. The other day, Rangers are winning 2-0 vs the Flyers, Flyers pull the goalie for the extra man and who does Renney put out there to help keep the shutout for the team? Mr. Defense himself, Jags! Excuse me? WTF!? Tell me that isn't a clear case of putting Jags out there to hopefully get an easy point and make him stop moping. Terrible coaching. He did the same thing last year against Buffalo in the playoffs with an empty net, that the Sabres wound up scoring to tie it. Jags-Nylander had no business being out there then either.

The team has taken a new direction and he's just not a part of it.

[Theo 1]

I disagree with most of your post about the leadership and much more and will explain myself on Wednesday

[#96 0]

I disagree with most of your post about the leadership and much more and will explain myself on Wednesday

Wednesday? That means I have to deal with Mack until then!

Well, to be honest, I don't know how you could present an argument against - considering the statistics, low point totals, inconsistencies all year, moping, and fights between team members and coaching staff. All of those are answerable by a captain. But I'll be eager to see what you put forth. I always respect your opinion.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

Here is a good pic of Jagr when he was back in DC on sunday past

http://images.sportsline.com/u/uspresswire...8_078_lower.jpg

[chef_ducky 0]

I don't think Jagr is much of a leader...I wish they wiould give the C to Shanny

[Theo 1]

I disagree with most of your post about the leadership and much more and will explain myself on Wednesday

Wednesday? That means I have to deal with Mack until then!

Well, to be honest, I don't know how you could present an argument against - considering the statistics, low point totals, inconsistencies all year, moping, and fights between team members and coaching staff. All of those are answerable by a captain. But I'll be eager to see what you put forth. I always respect your opinion.

I think your agenda against Jagr is full of shit and has been wrong for the majority of his time with the Rangers, but in other news:

Rangers Lundqvist will be the highest paid goalie in the league with his new contract

[#96 0]

I disagree with most of your post about the leadership and much more and will explain myself on Wednesday

Wednesday? That means I have to deal with Mack until then!

Well, to be honest, I don't know how you could present an argument against - considering the statistics, low point totals, inconsistencies all year, moping, and fights between team members and coaching staff. All of those are answerable by a captain. But I'll be eager to see what you put forth. I always respect your opinion.

I think your agenda against Jagr is full of shit and has been wrong for the majority of his time with the Rangers, but in other news:

Rangers Lundqvist will be the highest paid goalie in the league with his new contract

I was waiting for a response, and that was it??? I guess the history books will have to be the judge then. But I absolutely will not give Jagr any credit for being the major contributing factor to the Rangers last 3 years of relative success. And I say relative, because it's only successful when measured against just how bad they were the last 7-9. This was supposed to be the year that they actually made a real attempt at "success", and that's direct from their mouths (players, management, ownership) and not mine. And to be frank...it's not happening.

But in other news: The Rangers give a basically unqualified goalie the highest paycheck in the league. He's a good goalie, probably the best the Rangers have ever had, but I don't think he actually deserved to be the highest paid. You have goalies that have won Cups, awards, and have the stats to support paychecks like that, but what has he won? His numbers have been good, but stellar? He was a candidate for the Vezina two years ago, but that makes him the worthiest goalie out there? When there's guys like Marty, Giggy, Kipper out there? Seems to me the Rangers were playing defense and just signed him so he would avoid the Summer's UFA-RFA status, which had to be done, but at that cost? What you're getting is a few players on the roster that are now eating up a large amount of the cap space. Makes getting a balanced team together kinda difficult, huh? The Rangers spend all their money on superstars, nahhhh.

Someone else posted in another thread that is another Lockout possible. The answer, yes. When teams are willing to keep paying guys inflated amounts of money that their numbers don't deserve, eventually you're going to get to a point where players will demand more and more, for less and less production, and owners will be less and less willing to pay. The Rangers themselves are now guilty of overpaying for underproducing players, Gomez-Drury-Lundqvist, with Lundqvist being at least the most worthy of any if at all of his increase.

[kosydar 0]

Rangers should have let some team taken Lundqvist on an offer sheet, collected their three or four first rounders, and put Montoya in the net. Draft a goalie sooner rather than later, and they're good.

[chef_ducky 0]

Trade Lundqvist...........ARe you out of your bloody mind!!!

[kosydar 0]

Its not a trade. If a team signs him for the $7 mil or however much he is getting, they can get a shitton of first round picks. Montoya is supposed to be a stud (unless something drastic happened). Get a quick fix UFA, and bam, a team who looks handcuffed by the salary cap is competitive.

[Theo 1]

96- I thought about it already and it is not worth my time to defend him anymore since you never gave him credit to begin with. Funny that you wouldn't give Jagr any credit the two years when he did well here and led us to the playoffs and now when things look bad you blame everything on him? Can't have it both ways, hypocritical asshat.

Montoya, Kosy, was supposed to be great. But he is regressing on the farm. Some say he needs more of a challenge and has gotten bored. But on Lundy, we see what he can do and while his lack of consistency does not warrent the most expensive goalie contract, most figured his fair value to be 6M. I am not going to go crazy over an additional 700K, despite the cap NHL. I think he has it in him. When he is on, he can be the best.

The real problem going forward for the Rangers is that they do not have the funds now for a legit superstar. Gomez is a star-lite, but not top tier. But you know what? Time to develop them from within as well. We see how well the alternative has worked. Staal will be a stud on the backline as well as Sanguiette, so we have to hope for Cherepanov to be that huge offensive threat. Dubinsky has a high ceiling, but he will be star-lite as well. Although with Malik, Jagr, STraka, Jagr, etc gone next year, we will have quite a bit of $$ off the books. Do the Rangers sign a grandslam deal with Rozy (who could score 25 goals a year on the back end) or go for a Campbell, which would cost more? Perhaps neither

[#96 0]

96- I thought about it already and it is not worth my time to defend him anymore since you never gave him credit to begin with. Funny that you wouldn't give Jagr any credit the two years when he did well here and led us to the playoffs and now when things look bad you blame everything on him? Can't have it both ways, hypocritical asshat.

Montoya, Kosy, was supposed to be great. But he is regressing on the farm. Some say he needs more of a challenge and has gotten bored. But on Lundy, we see what he can do and while his lack of consistency does not warrent the most expensive goalie contract, most figured his fair value to be 6M. I am not going to go crazy over an additional 700K, despite the cap NHL. I think he has it in him. When he is on, he can be the best.

The real problem going forward for the Rangers is that they do not have the funds now for a legit superstar. Gomez is a star-lite, but not top tier. But you know what? Time to develop them from within as well. We see how well the alternative has worked. Staal will be a stud on the backline as well as Sanguiette, so we have to hope for Cherepanov to be that huge offensive threat. Dubinsky has a high ceiling, but he will be star-lite as well. Although with Malik, Jagr, STraka, Jagr, etc gone next year, we will have quite a bit of $$ off the books. Do the Rangers sign a grandslam deal with Rozy (who could score 25 goals a year on the back end) or go for a Campbell, which would cost more? Perhaps neither

It's over-accepting fans like you that caused us to have the terrible years after the Cup and let the organization get away with it. Instead of questioning the direction of the team, the composition of the team itself and calling the players into responsibility, guys like you just let them get away with it and made the situation get worse. Guys like you said, "Ahh at least it can't get any worse next year. Besides, we got Pavel Bure and Eric Lindros, HELL YEAH!". If mediocrity is ok for you, then so be it. I, on the other hand, expect more from my team. I expect to win every faceoff, score every goal, and win every game. Anything else is a letdown. Its even more of a letdown when the organization tells you they are now fully dedicated to winning the Cup, will do what they have to do so, and yet keep players like Jagr in positions of authority. That guy only cares when he has a Czech flag on his chest, not a Rangers symbol. People have said that about him since his first game, not just me.

Montoya is terrible. He was all talk, and became nothing. He's played in the pre-season and showed some blaring weaknesses. From the little I've seen, I don't think he's even good enough to be a #1 goalie in the NHL, not at this point.

I do think that when Jagr goes, there is going to be a domino effect of his guys leaving too. But I think Roszy is one of them. Unless the Rangers shell out serious cashola, which they've been known to do, he's not sticking around without his buddy. He's the head of our D Corps, but I think he plays shotty defense, is prone to mistakes and is only having a career year now. I think his potential 25 goal output is a dream, no way that guys scores 25. I'd rather see them take the time to develop the young offensive talent they have in the system and get a couple of good Dmen (if they don't sign Rosz). Campbell would be ok, but I'd like to see them get a true Big Defense First Dman too. Not sure who's on the market that fits the bill though.

[#96 0]

96- I thought about it already and it is not worth my time to defend him anymore since you never gave him credit to begin with. Funny that you wouldn't give Jagr any credit the two years when he did well here and led us to the playoffs and now when things look bad you blame everything on him? Can't have it both ways, hypocritical asshat.

Montoya, Kosy, was supposed to be great. But he is regressing on the farm. Some say he needs more of a challenge and has gotten bored. But on Lundy, we see what he can do and while his lack of consistency does not warrent the most expensive goalie contract, most figured his fair value to be 6M. I am not going to go crazy over an additional 700K, despite the cap NHL. I think he has it in him. When he is on, he can be the best.

The real problem going forward for the Rangers is that they do not have the funds now for a legit superstar. Gomez is a star-lite, but not top tier. But you know what? Time to develop them from within as well. We see how well the alternative has worked. Staal will be a stud on the backline as well as Sanguiette, so we have to hope for Cherepanov to be that huge offensive threat. Dubinsky has a high ceiling, but he will be star-lite as well. Although with Malik, Jagr, STraka, Jagr, etc gone next year, we will have quite a bit of $$ off the books. Do the Rangers sign a grandslam deal with Rozy (who could score 25 goals a year on the back end) or go for a Campbell, which would cost more? Perhaps neither

See Theo, if you had taken the time to read my comment before you insulted me (a la Mack), you would have noticed that I never gave Jagr any credit because I never liked him, 3 years ago or now. So therefore, I am not a hypocrite - my opinion never changed.

[DarkStar50 679]

No Jagr and and it would have been 10 years without seeing or sniffing the playoffs.

Pay/sign Henrik or the Rangers have no chance in hell of ever winning anything, division, conference, Cup or get to the playoffs. The Flyers would have thrown the offer sheet at him and then what is your plan? BTW, the most over-rated player in the NHL is the FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICK that hasn't been drafted.

"Expect to win every faceoff, score every goal, win every game." That is pretty funny coming from someone who plays the game. The 76 Canadiens lost 8 times couldn't do that but you expect it? Thanks for the chuckle.