Yeeeee Ha!

[Aussie Joe 0]

Labels will be around forever, just as the differences between us all whether they be physical or character based. We are not all equal, nor are we all different. Such is the ultimate paradox created by the extreme levels of politcal correctness we see these days.

[LkptTiger 1]

I'm not trying to start a debate here, either. I was just raising a question. My point is that a conversation such as this one necessitates these labels. How else are heterosexuals (the "we") to address homosexuals (the "they/them")? And vice versa?

That fact that this topic was brought to existence by a "them" justifies the distinction, I think. If this weren't a subject matter he didn't want to be touched, he wouldn't have brought it up.

To be completely honest, I didn't even see the need for such a topic. I've never understood the need for some homosexuals to be recognized primarily by their orientation. You like dudes? Keep it to yourself. You don't see me starting websites for heterosexual hockey players or going out of my way to make it known that I like having sex with women.

[tim-tim 0]

I'm not trying to start a debate here, either. I was just raising a question. My point is that a conversation such as this one necessitates these labels. How else are heterosexuals (the "we") to address homosexuals (the "they/them")? And vice versa?

That fact that this topic was brought to existence by a "them" justifies the distinction, I think. If this weren't a subject matter he didn't want to be touched, he wouldn't have brought it up.

To be completely honest, I didn't even see the need for such a topic. I've never understood the need for some homosexuals to be recognized primarily by their orientation. You like dudes? Keep it to yourself. You don't see me starting websites for heterosexual hockey players or going out of my way to make it known that I like having sex with women.

This was the point I was trying to make, although maybe I should have had it under another heading, I didn't understand WHY there was a website dedicted to this and actually wondered if there was an actual league purely for players who are gay rather than just teams having some gay players in their squads.

In honesty i'm not gay myself but have no problem with people who are, i wanted to see what the thoughts would be of people regarding this as when I posted it on a UK/Scottish website it was deleted within an hour of starting. At least you guys were all willing to post a comment and put a bit of input into it.

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

Next time, state your thoughts so that people don't have to wonder why you started the thread.

[jcp2 2]

I didn't understand WHY there was a website dedicted to this and actually wondered if there was an actual league purely for players who are gay rather than just teams having some gay players in their squads.

Did you actually visit and read the website at all? It's an association of various hockey teams that are made up of players that are gay or okay playing on a team made up of predominantly gay players. I've played for a couple of the teams mentioned before they were so formally organized. I was invited by my brother to play as a sub for a group of players who had formed a beginner's level team at the Skyrink in NYC. The captain back then was Jeff Kagan, who is the current leader of the association mentioned in the website. He wasn't open about his sexual orientation when he first started playing, but he came out. Some guys stuck with him on the team afterwards, some guys left. I was one of the ones that stuck with Jeff, and it was no big deal for me. Once he was out, he met some more gay players that wanted to join the team. Some were pretty advanced players from other teams that never felt comfortable in the locker room, but otherwise looked like you and I, while some others were people new to the game that wanted to try it out, but obviously wouldn't fit in anywhere except on this team. As more gay players became interested in joining the team, he had to start another team, until when I left to move to Michigan, there were at least four teams of gay players at the Skyrink, two playing at the beginner level, and two at the D level. When Jeff started playing, he had essentially just learned to skate. He practiced skating on his own time, and was easily a C level player five years ago.

As for having a league just for gay players, it's not so different than having a league for women only, with some of those women also playing in the general league. I think the New York league was also started because at some point, regular teams were dropping out of the open leagues because there were several gay teams they had to play against, some of which were good enough to win the seasonal championships.

[LkptTiger 1]

As for having a league just for gay players, it's not so different than having a league for women only, with some of those women also playing in the general league. I think the New York league was also started because at some point, regular teams were dropping out of the open leagues because there were several gay teams they had to play against, some of which were good enough to win the seasonal championships.

But it IS different than a women's league. That's a distinction of gender. Men who are gay are still, biologically speaking, men. My issue with things like this is that it appears as though minorities (or those who perceive themselves to me minorities) want to be treated as equals, but don't want to play by the same rules.

As far as the issue of teams dropping out of leagues to avoid playing against homosexual opponents, we can return to my question addressing the need for some homosexuals to (often) make their sexual orientation obnoxiously evident.

[Deerok 3]

I have played in the Chelsea Piers league against a few of the gay teams, until somebody told me they were gay I couldn't tell the difference (it's not like they play different). Once I found out, I pretty much shrugged my shoulders and said "Great; less competition for me!" Keep comin' out fellas!

Bottom line-it doesn't matter what you are; we all play hockey.

[jcp2 2]

We have an intramural university league at my rink. There's a hockey association for the local geographic area. Several churches in my area have church leagues. The YMCA is big here, but the JCC is also very active. The local Freemason's lodge is down the street from where I live. The Elks are a completely different group of people. There are lots of organizations that have a particular focus on common interests for a subset of individuals with a common social background. If your concern is that you feel excluded, that gay hockey league is open to non-gay members.

As for minorities wanting to be treated as equals, but not wanting to play by the same rules, my experience is that "the rules" are not the same for a visibly identifiable minority when in a predominantly majority environment. Sometimes it's subtle, sometimes it's really obvious. A lot of the time, it reduces to the rule "don't stick out" and "don't rock the boat". I don't want to be treated as an equal, if it means being treated the same, because it's clear to everybody that I'm not "the same". I am who I am. What I want is equal educational and economic opportunities, with the ability to freely exercise my rights and responsibilities as defined in the constitution without fear of reprisal or retribution, despite not being a member of the majority (or plurality, as the case will soon be).

[sabre09923 0]

Labels will be around forever, just as the differences between us all whether they be physical or character based. We are not all equal, nor are we all different. Such is the ultimate paradox created by the extreme levels of politcal correctness we see these days.

Sometimes, you've just got to remember that you're unique, just like everyone else.

[Nutella 0]

Labels will be around forever, just as the differences between us all whether they be physical or character based. We are not all equal, nor are we all different. Such is the ultimate paradox created by the extreme levels of politcal correctness we see these days.

Sometimes, you've just got to remember that you're unique, just like everyone else.

Haha, I like that.

P.S. What's all this deep crap? Let's talk about dip, beer and hockey!

[Aussie Joe 0]

Or as I like to put it when I goto a Hardcore gig....

"Ah look, all the non-conformists getting together to conform"

[Trippingblue 1]

I'm not trying to start a debate here, either. I was just raising a question. My point is that a conversation such as this one necessitates these labels. How else are heterosexuals (the "we") to address homosexuals (the "they/them")? And vice versa?

To be completely honest, I didn't even see the need for such a topic. I've never understood the need for some homosexuals to be recognized primarily by their orientation. You like dudes? Keep it to yourself. You don't see me starting websites for heterosexual hockey players or going out of my way to make it known that I like having sex with women.

You've never understood the need, mainly because you sound as though you are a part of the cultural majority. Why aren't there any 'white pride'(racist jackass rallies aside) or 'straight pride' parades? They've asserted their dominance for decades, no need to state the obvious. It's important for marginalised peoples to make their place in the world known lest we 'blend in' so much that we dissapear.

[LkptTiger 1]

I hate to burst your bubble, but most of you guys aren't very good at hiding your "dirty little secret." You probably don't have to worry about "blending-in" any time soon - with or without your parades and festivals and whatnot.

[TBLfan 25]

I don't understand why someone would even start a thread about this. There's homosexuals in every sport... who cares?

[LkptTiger 1]

My sentiments exactly. I really don't think I would care if one of my teammates were gay. As long as he can do his job on the ice, he's just another hockey player to me.

I worked with Abercrombie and Fitch for awhile, and had a few co-workers who happened to be gay. It didn't bother me at all. They're people, too.

I just don't like it when people think that they are "special" because they don't embrace or embody the societal norm.

[Trippingblue 1]

I hate to burst your bubble, but most of you guys aren't very good at hiding your "dirty little secret." You probably don't have to worry about "blending-in" any time soon - with or without your parades and festivals and whatnot.

No bubble here, if you met me and didn't know I was gay, you wouldn't, unless I told you. That's neither here nor there, though, since I was speaking generally about being a minority.

--nick--

[LkptTiger 1]

That's all well and good (and respected/appreciated). Still, I guess I just fail to understand the compulsion to make one's private life public.

[Trippingblue 1]

So, by that token, do you believe that public displays of affection, regardless of orientation, are offensive? If you saw a man and his female fiance, another man and his male partner, and two women walking down the street holding hands you'd be equally as disapproving?

--nick--

[LkptTiger 1]

I suppose I've got no problem with hand holding. I can even deal with hugging. But Hell, even I go out of my way to avoid kissing my girlfriend in public because I know that other people don't want to see it.

Allow me to rephrase - "...I fail to see the compulsion one's private life obnoxiously public."

[mack 44]

What's your big tip-off, Lkpt? The amount of product someone has in their hair? That's usually mine.

[LkptTiger 1]

I attend a large, rather liberal educational institution where things like "National Coming-Out Week" are celebrated and drag-shows (complete with male make-out sessions) are held in the middle of the student union. Sometimes my buddies and I have to comment on how we feel like we, as straight, non-curious young men, might be the minority. Still, if you were to come onto campus, you wouldn't see or hear me making my sexual preferences known just so I could be differentiated from the "others."

When you're exposed to this type of stuff on a daily basis, one's "Gaydar" usually becomes finely tuned. I'm actually starting to scare myself sometimes - it's getting to the point where I don't even need to hear a guy's voice or the Britney Spears pumping through his iPod headphones before I can make the I.D.

[mack 44]

I still go by product amount. Or what my wife or sister assume since they're both...well I don't know the PC name of what they'd be called.

[LkptTiger 1]

Amount of product isn't fool-proof. If you went to school with a bunch of guys from Long Island, you'd understand.

[mack 44]

Oh trust me, I had that too but I'm guessing times have changed because these guys were painfully hetero.

[LkptTiger 1]

Yeah, sickeningly so. Still, I think I'd rather try to hold a conversation with a Long Island guy over a Long Island girl - at least the guys show some signs of activity within their craniums.