Wolves are at your door

[Chadd 916]

lb,

You are right, it won't happen overnight. It is a gradual process that has already begun. The one guy already gave the example right here. I was swimming with the sharks this past week. It was easy to see their strategy and where it is headed.

For everyone who wants to save $10 or $100 online, hey, that's what a free market system is all about. I understand completely why guys do it. I am addressing the changing dynamic of the hockey marketplace. Saving money right now has something to do with it but in the end it is about creating a stranglehold on the marketplace.

What will be will be.

Think we should start an LHSPA? Some kind of union for the brick and mortars? :lol:

More like a trade group or association. It's the only way to counter the power of the big three of Giant, Monkey and Perani. You get 50 or 100 shops to band together, there is some clout to get the behavior to change a little.

[lb33knight 0]

lb,

You are right, it won't happen overnight. It is a gradual process that has already begun. The one guy already gave the example right here. I was swimming with the sharks this past week. It was easy to see their strategy and where it is headed.

For everyone who wants to save $10 or $100 online, hey, that's what a free market system is all about. I understand completely why guys do it. I am addressing the changing dynamic of the hockey marketplace. Saving money right now has something to do with it but in the end it is about creating a stranglehold on the marketplace.

What will be will be.

Think we should start an LHSPA? Some kind of union for the brick and mortars? :lol:

More like a trade group or association. It's the only way to counter the power of the big three of Giant, Monkey and Perani. You get 50 or 100 shops to band together, there is some clout to get the behavior to change a little.

Could you imagine getting 50+ of us together and trying to all agree on something, lol? If it happens it was my idea. I get to name it.

[Chadd 916]

lb,

You are right, it won't happen overnight. It is a gradual process that has already begun. The one guy already gave the example right here. I was swimming with the sharks this past week. It was easy to see their strategy and where it is headed.

For everyone who wants to save $10 or $100 online, hey, that's what a free market system is all about. I understand completely why guys do it. I am addressing the changing dynamic of the hockey marketplace. Saving money right now has something to do with it but in the end it is about creating a stranglehold on the marketplace.

What will be will be.

Think we should start an LHSPA? Some kind of union for the brick and mortars? :lol:

More like a trade group or association. It's the only way to counter the power of the big three of Giant, Monkey and Perani. You get 50 or 100 shops to band together, there is some clout to get the behavior to change a little.

Could you imagine getting 50+ of us together and trying to all agree on something, lol? If it happens it was my idea. I get to name it.

Actually, the key would be to focus on things that are killing the local shops and only admitting shops that met a higher standard of knowledge and service. Some of us were talking about it before MSH was launched so you weren't the first of us to discuss it.

If the manufacturers can have an industry association, why not the retailers?

[wetwilly17 6]

Does the Home Depot still have the same great lowest price now as when they started and moved into your neighborhood? They did have the lowest price when the mom and pop hardware store was still around. Once they killed the mom and pop hardware store, up went the prices at Home Depot. Once the onlines kill the LHS with price, how do you know the onlines won't decide to start raising prices? They will have killed off their competition. That is the business model certain online hockey sites are using.

1) home depot still has great prices and a way better selection than the mom and pop. i wish it weren't true but it is.

2) "killed off their competition"?????? come on man...they still compete against each other. prices wont change because there is always someone willing to keep the price reasonable because they know they'll sell.

3) normally i support independantly owned businesses over corporations. i enjoy the uniqueness and character offered by, say, the mom and pop restruant...chili's is the same bland crap everywhere in the country. but when it comes to hockey equipment, you are getting the same product, despite who you buy it from.

[Chadd 916]

Well, look what is happening with IHIA and then ask yourself if you want the headache of it. They have the One Goal show in Detroit, November 9-11, and have the BIGGEST names in the sport NOT supporting the show!

That's right boys and girls...no NBH, no RbK/CCM, no Easton! Brian's and Vaughn both just dropped out, leaving Mission and Warrior as the biggest names at the show.

Isn't it great? This is the most pathetic show any industry has ever put together. They can't even get the founding members of their own association to show up for the trade show.

By the way, you forgot to mention Thermablade. :P

[sabre09923 0]

I heard a rumor going around that Pure Hockey is going out of business... Such a shame.

[pmr149 0]

woww....

[mojo122 538]

I heard a rumor going around that Pure Hockey is going out of business... Such a shame.

Seeing where they just opened yet another store in Medford and made the NBH ID program available in Braintree, I'd consider that to be nothing more than a rumor.

[TBLfan 25]

Does the Home Depot still have the same great lowest price now as when they started and moved into your neighborhood? They did have the lowest price when the mom and pop hardware store was still around. Once they killed the mom and pop hardware store, up went the prices at Home Depot. Once the onlines kill the LHS with price, how do you know the onlines won't decide to start raising prices? They will have killed off their competition. That is the business model certain online hockey sites are using.

1) home depot still has great prices and a way better selection than the mom and pop. i wish it weren't true but it is.

2) "killed off their competition"?????? come on man...they still compete against each other. prices wont change because there is always someone willing to keep the price reasonable because they know they'll sell.

3) normally i support independantly owned businesses over corporations. i enjoy the uniqueness and character offered by, say, the mom and pop restruant...chili's is the same bland crap everywhere in the country. but when it comes to hockey equipment, you are getting the same product, despite who you buy it from.

You are getting the same product but you also aren't getting to try it out, you aren't getting service from a (hopefully) trained employee and are you going to expect your LHS to repair or replace any damage that may happen to your gear you bought online?

I buy stuff online, but I also buy a lot from my LHS. They know I buy stuff online, sometimes they ask me how I got such a good deal, of course I gladly tell them... I've also had them ask me if I saw a deal on ______ when they didn't have something a customer wanted. If you happen to be lucky enough to have a LHS with good service and good employees, you need to take care of them and they'll take care of you.

Now if only my shop could get more than one good sharpener. <_<

[DarkStar50 679]

TBL,

Ask the LHS to teach you how to sharpen!! It takes practice and then the courage to do your own! I'm sure you could do it.

[TBLfan 25]

haha I should! Maybe if I take a trip up to jersey sometime soon I can learn from a pro!

[DarkStar50 679]

Hey, I'd be happy to get you started. We always need more sharpeners!!

[lb33knight 0]

Hey, I'd be happy to get you started. We always need more sharpeners!!

Or he can just buy a Dupliskate and let the machine do the work for him :lol: I hate those damn things...

[Viking 1]

They do not see a game, a sport, a lifestyle. They see only a business, a dollar sign, a profit and loss statement. For them, it is just another sale, another sold SKU. It is not about the product for them, no matter how well it is engineered. It is simply moving units, more than yesterday, more than last week, more than last month, more than last year.

Actually, that's my LHS, and a good number of the ones I've been to. If I'm supposed to be so blown away by the service at hockey shops that I'll knowingly and willingly pay a great deal more money than I have to for everything they sell, just in order to keep their business afloat, it hasn't happened yet. Sorry, LHS owners, you're not a charity. I'm not going to spend my money at your stores just because you're nice guys, and I want to see you make money and see your businesses succeed. I'm sure many of you are nice guys, and I don't want to see anyone's business fail, and I don't doubt anyone's love for the game - nor do I particularly care about it. Because I'm sure the people running online stores love hockey too, or they wouldn't do that - there's a whole lot of better ways to make money than by selling hockey equipment, online or not. I don't hate my LHS, or the idea of them in general, but I also don't have anything personally invested in whether or not they make those extra couple hundred dollars a year from me. In the end, it's really just a store to me, so if it's not worth it for me to shop there, I won't. I do still shop there, because it's convenient for me, because I do want the service sometimes, and because sometimes they offer me a competitive enough price that I don't feel like a complete idiot when I hand them my money. I still buy probably half my equipment there, in addition to the boatloads of money I dump on skate sharpenings, and tape, and skate laces, and other miscellaneous junk every year, so I don't feel bad if I go online once in a while to save $50 on a pair of gloves or something once in a while. The online hockey store isn't the result of some sinister campaign to take someone's livelihood away from them, or to destroy a mom and pop business, or hockey as we know it - it's the result of consumers voting with their feet, and saying "Your prices are too high for what you're offering me, and I won't pay them anymore." In this sector of the retail world, just like in any other, the best business model pretty well always wins.

[TBLfan 25]

Sweet! I'd actually love to learn, I love learning new things that I probably would never use. haha... no seriously, I think I have a problem. :(

A lot of LHS's prices aren't really "jacked-up" it's just that a larger company can offer lower prices, wal-mart is a good example of this. It's just an issue of perception.

[jimmy 194]

OK, this discussion again. Online shopping is a great experience for most. They usually sneak down to their LHS, look, touch, feel, flex, try on, size and get fitted for what they want to buy. Then with no remorse, they scurry home and but the item they "shopped" at the local LHS. Very, very few online shoppers buy an item sight unseen, or use the little 2" picture on the web site. They don't want to take the risk that the item wont fit or feel good. So instead, they steal from the LHS and use the LHS as their little showroom for their so-called internet good deals. Then if this crafty shopper ever has a problem, where does he go? Back to the internet "operator"? Nope. These shifty little b@stards will got to the LHS, even try to return the item... like they bought it there.

As for the few "nice" people who don't feel right scaming their LHS, they'll go to an online bulletin board, .. preface their post by saying they don't have a LHS near them (usually lies), then try to get people to give them infomation on sizing, etc, so they can actually bypass their LHS to save a few dollars. They'll use some lame excuse that my LHS doesn't know anything, blah, blah, blah, to try to soften the topic so they get more sympathy.

Granted, not everyone does this but the HUGE majority do. All one has to do is look at the thousands of MSH posts and you can figure it out. It's so obvious it's unreal.

[wetwilly17 6]

OK, this discussion again. Online shopping is a great experience for most. They usually sneak down to their LHS, look, touch, feel, flex, try on, size and get fitted for what they want to buy. Then with no remorse, they scurry home and but the item they "shopped" at the local LHS. Very, very few online shoppers buy an item sight unseen, or use the little 2" picture on the web site. They don't want to take the risk that the item wont fit or feel good. So instead, they steal from the LHS and use the LHS as their little showroom for their so-called internet good deals. Then if this crafty shopper ever has a problem, where does he go? Back to the internet "operator"? Nope. These shifty little b@stards will got to the LHS, even try to return the item... like they bought it there.

As for the few "nice" people who don't feel right scaming their LHS, they'll go to an online bulletin board, .. preface their post by saying they don't have a LHS near them (usually lies), then try to get people to give them infomation on sizing, etc, so they can actually bypass their LHS to save a few dollars. They'll use some lame excuse that my LHS doesn't know anything, blah, blah, blah, to try to soften the topic so they get more sympathy.

Granted, not everyone does this but the HUGE majority do. All one has to do is look at the thousands of MSH posts and you can figure it out. It's so obvious it's unreal.

"HUGE majority"???i think your bitterness is clouding your judgement. i admit it happens. but as i stated before...much of the gear that is bought doesn't need to be tested or tried on...i know what curve i like, i know what an 85 flex is, i know what length lace i need, i know what color socks i need, i know what tape i want, i know what jersey size i am, etc...like the viking said: most people use the lhs when it is convenient for them. sometimes, as a consumer, it doesn't make sense to use the lhs. i'll say it again: supply and demand.

[lb33knight 0]

OK, this discussion again. Online shopping is a great experience for most. They usually sneak down to their LHS, look, touch, feel, flex, try on, size and get fitted for what they want to buy. Then with no remorse, they scurry home and but the item they "shopped" at the local LHS. Very, very few online shoppers buy an item sight unseen, or use the little 2" picture on the web site. They don't want to take the risk that the item wont fit or feel good. So instead, they steal from the LHS and use the LHS as their little showroom for their so-called internet good deals. Then if this crafty shopper ever has a problem, where does he go? Back to the internet "operator"? Nope. These shifty little b@stards will got to the LHS, even try to return the item... like they bought it there.

As for the few "nice" people who don't feel right scaming their LHS, they'll go to an online bulletin board, .. preface their post by saying they don't have a LHS near them (usually lies), then try to get people to give them infomation on sizing, etc, so they can actually bypass their LHS to save a few dollars. They'll use some lame excuse that my LHS doesn't know anything, blah, blah, blah, to try to soften the topic so they get more sympathy.

Granted, not everyone does this but the HUGE majority do. All one has to do is look at the thousands of MSH posts and you can figure it out. It's so obvious it's unreal.

"HUGE majority"???i think your bitterness is clouding your judgement. i admit it happens. but as i stated before...much of the gear that is bought doesn't need to be tested or tried on...i know what curve i like, i know what an 85 flex is, i know what length lace i need, i know what color socks i need, i know what tape i want, i know what jersey size i am, etc...like the viking said: most people use the lhs when it is convenient for them. sometimes, as a consumer, it doesn't make sense to use the lhs. i'll say it again: supply and demand.

Unless you are part of the industry you have a hard time seeing what we see. We see this multiple times a day and people still argue about it. They just don't get it...

And about only 1 out of 10 people that come in to try things on with the intentions of buying online actually bother to ask if we will match the price which we almost always do.

[DarkStar50 679]

They do not see a game, a sport, a lifestyle. They see only a business, a dollar sign, a profit and loss statement. For them, it is just another sale, another sold SKU. It is not about the product for them, no matter how well it is engineered. It is simply moving units, more than yesterday, more than last week, more than last month, more than last year.

Actually, that's my LHS, and a good number of the ones I've been to. If I'm supposed to be so blown away by the service at hockey shops that I'll knowingly and willingly pay a great deal more money than I have to for everything they sell, just in order to keep their business afloat, it hasn't happened yet. Sorry, LHS owners, you're not a charity. I'm not going to spend my money at your stores just because you're nice guys, and I want to see you make money and see your businesses succeed. I'm sure many of you are nice guys, and I don't want to see anyone's business fail, and I don't doubt anyone's love for the game - nor do I particularly care about it. Because I'm sure the people running online stores love hockey too, or they wouldn't do that - there's a whole lot of better ways to make money than by selling hockey equipment, online or not. I don't hate my LHS, or the idea of them in general, but I also don't have anything personally invested in whether or not they make those extra couple hundred dollars a year from me. In the end, it's really just a store to me, so if it's not worth it for me to shop there, I won't. I do still shop there, because it's convenient for me, because I do want the service sometimes, and because sometimes they offer me a competitive enough price that I don't feel like a complete idiot when I hand them my money. I still buy probably half my equipment there, in addition to the boatloads of money I dump on skate sharpenings, and tape, and skate laces, and other miscellaneous junk every year, so I don't feel bad if I go online once in a while to save $50 on a pair of gloves or something once in a while. The online hockey store isn't the result of some sinister campaign to take someone's livelihood away from them, or to destroy a mom and pop business, or hockey as we know it - it's the result of consumers voting with their feet, and saying "Your prices are too high for what you're offering me, and I won't pay them anymore." In this sector of the retail world, just like in any other, the best business model pretty well always wins.

I met one of the most successful, if not the most successful online hockey guy last week. He said to a very good friend of mine, who runs multiple shops across a tri-state region, that my friend cares too much about the game, the business. The online guy said, "Me, I do not care about hockey."

[duch 0]

This is all too philisophical for me. I'm just going back to my monotonous routine life. See ya!

[Monty22 833]

OK, this discussion again. Online shopping is a great experience for most. They usually sneak down to their LHS, look, touch, feel, flex, try on, size and get fitted for what they want to buy. Then with no remorse, they scurry home and but the item they "shopped" at the local LHS. Very, very few online shoppers buy an item sight unseen, or use the little 2" picture on the web site. They don't want to take the risk that the item wont fit or feel good. So instead, they steal from the LHS and use the LHS as their little showroom for their so-called internet good deals. Then if this crafty shopper ever has a problem, where does he go? Back to the internet "operator"? Nope. These shifty little b@stards will got to the LHS, even try to return the item... like they bought it there.

As for the few "nice" people who don't feel right scaming their LHS, they'll go to an online bulletin board, .. preface their post by saying they don't have a LHS near them (usually lies), then try to get people to give them infomation on sizing, etc, so they can actually bypass their LHS to save a few dollars. They'll use some lame excuse that my LHS doesn't know anything, blah, blah, blah, to try to soften the topic so they get more sympathy.

Granted, not everyone does this but the HUGE majority do. All one has to do is look at the thousands of MSH posts and you can figure it out. It's so obvious it's unreal.

"HUGE majority"???i think your bitterness is clouding your judgement. i admit it happens. but as i stated before...much of the gear that is bought doesn't need to be tested or tried on...i know what curve i like, i know what an 85 flex is, i know what length lace i need, i know what color socks i need, i know what tape i want, i know what jersey size i am, etc...like the viking said: most people use the lhs when it is convenient for them. sometimes, as a consumer, it doesn't make sense to use the lhs. i'll say it again: supply and demand.

Funny, you don't list skates, pads, helmets etc.. All things one would want/need to try on before purchase.

[jimmy 194]

OK, this discussion again. Online shopping is a great experience for most. They usually sneak down to their LHS, look, touch, feel, flex, try on, size and get fitted for what they want to buy. Then with no remorse, they scurry home and but the item they "shopped" at the local LHS. Very, very few online shoppers buy an item sight unseen, or use the little 2" picture on the web site. They don't want to take the risk that the item wont fit or feel good. So instead, they steal from the LHS and use the LHS as their little showroom for their so-called internet good deals. Then if this crafty shopper ever has a problem, where does he go? Back to the internet "operator"? Nope. These shifty little b@stards will got to the LHS, even try to return the item... like they bought it there.

As for the few "nice" people who don't feel right scaming their LHS, they'll go to an online bulletin board, .. preface their post by saying they don't have a LHS near them (usually lies), then try to get people to give them infomation on sizing, etc, so they can actually bypass their LHS to save a few dollars. They'll use some lame excuse that my LHS doesn't know anything, blah, blah, blah, to try to soften the topic so they get more sympathy.

Granted, not everyone does this but the HUGE majority do. All one has to do is look at the thousands of MSH posts and you can figure it out. It's so obvious it's unreal.

"HUGE majority"???i think your bitterness is clouding your judgement. i admit it happens. but as i stated before...much of the gear that is bought doesn't need to be tested or tried on...i know what curve i like, i know what an 85 flex is, i know what length lace i need, i know what color socks i need, i know what tape i want, i know what jersey size i am, etc...like the viking said: most people use the lhs when it is convenient for them. sometimes, as a consumer, it doesn't make sense to use the lhs. i'll say it again: supply and demand.

Unless you are part of the industry you have a hard time seeing what we see. We see this multiple times a day and people still argue about it. They just don't get it...

And about only 1 out of 10 people that come in to try things on with the intentions of buying online actually bother to ask if we will match the price which we almost always do.

You're absolutely right. We see the scammers every day. It's not bitterness, it's wasting an hour of our time so some a$$whipe can get get the information he needs to buy the same item online. These people do not understand we are not showrooms for the online sites. Again, I have NO problem with people buying online, just don't come in my store and put your grubby hands on my equipment, or your stinky feet in my skates, or flex my sticks when you KNOW you have no intention of buying in my store. Just be a man, and buy direct sight unseen from the online store. When a new product comes out, don't go to your LHS to check it out, just buy it from the online store using the little 2" picture. I buy stuff onlime all the time, but I wouldn't dream of going into someones store and scamming them for product info or sizing.

[Chadd 916]

As far as skates go, charge a fitting fee of $50. If they buy the skates from you, the $50 goes to the sale. The ONLY people that will have a problem with this are those who WEREN'T going to buy from you anyways and were going to use you for getting them fit properly.

I can't count the number of times I've walked into a shop that doesn't have every brand of skate in every size. Rarely do they even have my size in any brand and I have a pretty average (though a bit wide and thick) foot.

I know a friend of mine that had to drive all over the state to find skates that fit his kid. If he gets charged $50 every time he walks into a shop, he's going to drop a couple hundred bucks before his kid gets the right boot.

You are always going to lose a few customers who figure they can wait a week and toss their skates in the oven at home to save a couple bucks, there is no way to prevent that. The problem is that when you treat all customers like they are that guy, it drives away more potential customers. You shouldn't create an adversarial relationship with everyone just because a few people are cheapskates and/or assholes.

[Chadd 916]

I guess having two of the larger online retailers in my area makes a bigger difference than what you might face in your area.

Here, if you don't have the stock, they will be gone knowing that Giant or Hawk (Monkey) will.

Some of us can only dream of having multiple shops with large inventories.

[the1gwiz 0]

I know a friend of mine that had to drive all over the state to find skates that fit his kid. If he gets charged $50 every time he walks into a shop, he's going to drop a couple hundred bucks before his kid gets the right boot.

Agreed. I'm in the process of shopping around for my first pair of skates, and with a $50 fee at every store I've hit up, I'd have easily dropped as much as my eventual skates will cost on fees alone.

Guarantee me a full selection in all sizes of every make and model in production, at competitive prices, and I'll gladly fork over a sizing fee.