Wolves are at your door

[DarkStar50 679]

If you want to charge a fitting fee, an easy way to find out who is serious in your shop is to ask this question, "Are you ready to buy today?" If the answer is "I just want to try to skates on" then we know where that is headed. If the answer is "As long as I find the right model and fit, yes", then there is an agreement in place. This is just something that starts the process. I know that if I don't have a size or model in stock, I wouldn't still charge a fitting fee. However, by asking the right questions and getting the right answers, I can be sure that the customer has found the right fit.

BTW, there is no fitting fee in our shop.

[jimmy 194]

First, it's imposible for a store to stock every size, every model. Heck, when I sell out a size, sometimes is takes months to get fill orders.

Anyway, I like the fitting fee idea. If I had one, I would gladly refund it fully if I didn't have in stock a skate to fit you and you ended up buying a skate I didn't sell at another local store. Just show us that receipt for your full refund. If you bought your skates on ebay or online, then you forfeit your fee. That's fair to both parties isn't it.

[the1gwiz 0]

Anyway, I like the fitting fee idea. If I had one, I would gladly refund it fully if I didn't have in stock a skate to fit you and you ended up buying a skate I didn't sell at another local store. Just show us that receipt for your full refund. If you bought your skates on ebay or online, then you forfeit your fee. That's fair to both parties isn't it.

No, and the reason why is because there is at least one shop I've been to in my skate search that I decided, based on the mediocre customer service and lack of knowledge of the employees, that, even if I found my perfect fit there,I would not buy from under any circumstances. It's got to go both ways: if a customer is expected to treat the LHS with respect, the LHS should be expected to be competent and courteous enough to deserve the respect. That certainly does not always happen, and I'm certainly not forking over $50, or ANY amount, for poor service.

[wetwilly17 6]

OK, this discussion again. Online shopping is a great experience for most. They usually sneak down to their LHS, look, touch, feel, flex, try on, size and get fitted for what they want to buy. Then with no remorse, they scurry home and but the item they "shopped" at the local LHS. Very, very few online shoppers buy an item sight unseen, or use the little 2" picture on the web site. They don't want to take the risk that the item wont fit or feel good. So instead, they steal from the LHS and use the LHS as their little showroom for their so-called internet good deals. Then if this crafty shopper ever has a problem, where does he go? Back to the internet "operator"? Nope. These shifty little b@stards will got to the LHS, even try to return the item... like they bought it there.

As for the few "nice" people who don't feel right scaming their LHS, they'll go to an online bulletin board, .. preface their post by saying they don't have a LHS near them (usually lies), then try to get people to give them infomation on sizing, etc, so they can actually bypass their LHS to save a few dollars. They'll use some lame excuse that my LHS doesn't know anything, blah, blah, blah, to try to soften the topic so they get more sympathy.

Granted, not everyone does this but the HUGE majority do. All one has to do is look at the thousands of MSH posts and you can figure it out. It's so obvious it's unreal.

"HUGE majority"???i think your bitterness is clouding your judgement. i admit it happens. but as i stated before...much of the gear that is bought doesn't need to be tested or tried on...i know what curve i like, i know what an 85 flex is, i know what length lace i need, i know what color socks i need, i know what tape i want, i know what jersey size i am, etc...like the viking said: most people use the lhs when it is convenient for them. sometimes, as a consumer, it doesn't make sense to use the lhs. i'll say it again: supply and demand.

Unless you are part of the industry you have a hard time seeing what we see. We see this multiple times a day and people still argue about it. They just don't get it...

And about only 1 out of 10 people that come in to try things on with the intentions of buying online actually bother to ask if we will match the price which we almost always do.

so if you can match the online prices, what is this thread about?

OK, this discussion again. Online shopping is a great experience for most. They usually sneak down to their LHS, look, touch, feel, flex, try on, size and get fitted for what they want to buy. Then with no remorse, they scurry home and but the item they "shopped" at the local LHS. Very, very few online shoppers buy an item sight unseen, or use the little 2" picture on the web site. They don't want to take the risk that the item wont fit or feel good. So instead, they steal from the LHS and use the LHS as their little showroom for their so-called internet good deals. Then if this crafty shopper ever has a problem, where does he go? Back to the internet "operator"? Nope. These shifty little b@stards will got to the LHS, even try to return the item... like they bought it there.

As for the few "nice" people who don't feel right scaming their LHS, they'll go to an online bulletin board, .. preface their post by saying they don't have a LHS near them (usually lies), then try to get people to give them infomation on sizing, etc, so they can actually bypass their LHS to save a few dollars. They'll use some lame excuse that my LHS doesn't know anything, blah, blah, blah, to try to soften the topic so they get more sympathy.

Granted, not everyone does this but the HUGE majority do. All one has to do is look at the thousands of MSH posts and you can figure it out. It's so obvious it's unreal.

"HUGE majority"???i think your bitterness is clouding your judgement. i admit it happens. but as i stated before...much of the gear that is bought doesn't need to be tested or tried on...i know what curve i like, i know what an 85 flex is, i know what length lace i need, i know what color socks i need, i know what tape i want, i know what jersey size i am, etc...like the viking said: most people use the lhs when it is convenient for them. sometimes, as a consumer, it doesn't make sense to use the lhs. i'll say it again: supply and demand.

Funny, you don't list skates, pads, helmets etc.. All things one would want/need to try on before purchase.

you missed my point: much of the equipment doesn't need to be tried on or inspected. that is when it makes sense, as a consumer, to use a online store with better prices. ofcourse there are things that you mentioned that are nice to try on at a lhs, which is why i use the lhs for these kind of purchases.

[DarkStar50 679]

Since I started the thread, it has changed as most usually do. My original point has to do with the changing landscape to purchase equipment. The internet dynamic is solidly in place and is having a ripple effect on the LHS. As I see it, this ripple will change to tsunami quicker than most think or care. Again, all fine by me. Free market, free enterprise, freedom of choice.

As to be expected, the thread turned into online/price better vs LHS/service better but mostly worse since it appears only a handful of LHS care about service. The LHS that cares about service is probably an active MSH person. The LHS that don't care about service are not here since they have decided not to get better info and make a difference with their customers. Unfortunately, a lot of gear whores here are stuck with that kind of LHS. Sorry 'bout that. Sooner or later, IMHO, certainly sooner, those kinds of LHS with shytty service will be gone thanks to the internet. And that will be the fault of no one but the idiot who tried to run a business that way.

[DamnLocust 0]

I have no doubt in my mind that the shitty LHS will be the first ones to go, but I think that the problem is more that the good shops are also hurting because of the same reasons. Within the past 10 years, 4 of the 7 LHSes in queens that I remember have closed up shop. One other shop has pretty much given up on hockey equipment, and another one has toned down their stock of hockey gear dramatically. The one shop left that's still going (relatively) strong is part of a chain of 4 stores, and imo offered the best service and selection from the get-go. even they have a more limited stock on hand than they used to, and have been adding more baseball/football stuff to the store.

I aknowledge that some of the loss of these shops is due to a lower interest in the sport in the area, but their demise just so happened to coincide with the inception of the online shops.

[KBO25 0]

Honestly, I refuse to but anything online (I had a bad expirience, leading to ID theft issues). And, half of my fun in checking out equipment is the relationships I've developed with owners/employees at my LHS. That alone is worth as much as I would save buying online. There's no replacement for the human element. Infact, I believe that since I don't buy online, and have developed a relationship with a LHS, I get close to the discount I would get online. The owner/employess know I've dropped hundreds of dollars there and will continue to spend my money, they give me what ever discount they can.

[ktang 34]

Is there an equivalent to "Source for Sports" in the US? It's a sports equipment buying group in Canada. Theoretically, the buying group would be able to get volume discounts and pass these onto the independently owned LHSes. For a fee, of course.

[Chadd 916]

Play it again sports and the hockey group are as close as you will find and some THG members are part of the problem, not the solution.

[ktang 34]

Play it again sports and the hockey group are as close as you will find and some THG members are part of the problem, not the solution.

Maybe there's economic room for a new buying group for the LHSes? E.g. the MSH group?

[Chadd 916]

Play it again sports and the hockey group are as close as you will find and some THG members are part of the problem, not the solution.

Maybe there's economic room for a new buying group for the LHSes? E.g. the MSH group?

When I was running a shop full-time I did discuss the concept with a few people, but not using the MSH name.

[DarkStar50 679]

I was in a sporting goods buying group at my last job. There were many advantages to being in a buying group. We got some great discounts from the vendors. There is one huge disadvantage to a buying group. You are only as strong as your weakest link. It only takes one shop to get behind in accounts payable and the whole group suffers the consequences. Even strong buying groups have members who business circumstances change for the worse long after they have been admitted to the group.. Once that happens, the problems snowball quickly.

As for THG, the funny thing is that HockeyMonkey no longer needs the group. They need him!!

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

I'm sure Bob keeps it afloat with Perani/1800Faceoff :)

[lb33knight 0]

First, it's imposible for a store to stock every size, every model. Heck, when I sell out a size, sometimes is takes months to get fill orders.

Anyway, I like the fitting fee idea. If I had one, I would gladly refund it fully if I didn't have in stock a skate to fit you and you ended up buying a skate I didn't sell at another local store. Just show us that receipt for your full refund. If you bought your skates on ebay or online, then you forfeit your fee. That's fair to both parties isn't it.

Since the beginning of the year I have had a $25 fitting fee clearly displayed on my skate wall. Since then I have only charged two customers that fee. Once they see it it's very easy to see what their intentions were. Most customers have no problem with it. The ones that complain about it weren't planning on buying from me anyway so their complaints fall on deaf ears.

Honestly, I refuse to but anything online (I had a bad expirience, leading to ID theft issues). And, half of my fun in checking out equipment is the relationships I've developed with owners/employees at my LHS. That alone is worth as much as I would save buying online. There's no replacement for the human element. Infact, I believe that since I don't buy online, and have developed a relationship with a LHS, I get close to the discount I would get online. The owner/employess know I've dropped hundreds of dollars there and will continue to spend my money, they give me what ever discount they can.

I discount soooo many items for my regular customers that appreciate our service. If you show your LHS some loyalty and respect they surely will show it back to you.

Let me pose this question... Of all of the tips that you have received working in the LHS - how many tips have actually come from "online shoppers"?

Unless you are part of the industry you have a hard time seeing what we see. We see this multiple times a day and people still argue about it. They just don't get it...

And about only 1 out of 10 people that come in to try things on with the intentions of buying online actually bother to ask if we will match the price which we almost always do.

so if you can match the online prices, what is this thread about?

Have you been asleep or are you just a little slow? I will match online prices but most people do not bother to even ask. They just automatically bypass my LHS without even seeing if we'll give them the same deal. I absolutely hate that and it's not fair to the LHS to even be given a chance to match. I CAN price match things but I don't like having to because if I sold my whole inventory at those prices I would have a hard time surviving. It's no surprise that there isn't a whole lot of money in running an LHS so the guys that do it, do it because they care and they like helping people. But I'd rather do a price match here and there than miss out on the sale completely. Why does it seem like you think that every price in an LHS that is above what you'd find online is intentionally inflated. There are so many more factors and expenses that have to be considered into our prices.

If there's one thing that I've learned on MSH is that there is an ocean of ignorance in the industry with a few scattered islands of knowledge. So, WetWilly, how's the water because the beach is nice.

[halfmoonyote 0]

I am currently in Central PA, and as Chadd can attest to - there are VERY few choices in LHS, unless you want to drive into Chester County/Philadelphia.

Of the two rink LHS here in town, one is run by SUPER nice guys, but their equipment is so old, its fading yellow. I'm not kidding. I would support them all day long, every day, and twice on Sundays, but they have no inventory, and absolutely nothing current. I can't just buy something for the sake of buying it if I'm never going to use it. I try to find SOMETHING though everytime I'm there.

The other rink LHS actually has a decent selection, exclusive TPS and Warrior, Mission skates, and a very wide range of accessories, but you are rolling the dice with the service you are getting. There are one or two genuine employees, but there are others who work there who are as arrogant and smug as the day is long. It's sad. I've seen potential customers ridiculed for asking for a certain product that wasn't in stock. 'Why do you need that exact pattern, do you think you it'll make you score more?' I could only imagine how a little kid just trying to find the right gear would feel in there. Awful.

As for PIAS - the one in this area is a total joke, and that's being kind. I don't even consider them, when thinking of an LHS. Selection = junk, but the real problem are the employees. They are slimy, shady, have no knowledge of hockey, and blatantly lie to customers to make a sale.

I love the LHS experience, always have. In Phoenix though, it was me helping the LHS guys with learning products. They didn't even realize the difference between pro stock and retail.

The amazing thing was, they all had sincere interests to learn. Ice Hockey is still a pretty foreign concept in AZ, (roller is big) but there are a handful of guys who are trying to really help it explode.

[Chadd 916]

The other rink LHS actually has a decent selection, exclusive TPS and Warrior, Mission skates, and a very wide range of accessories, but you are rolling the dice with the service you are getting. There are one or two genuine employees, but there are others who work there who are as arrogant and smug as the day is long. It's sad. I've seen potential customers ridiculed for asking for a certain product that wasn't in stock. 'Why do you need that exact pattern, do you think you it'll make you score more?' I could only imagine how a little kid just trying to find the right gear would feel in there. Awful.

I didn't hire any of those guys, they all came on board after I got screwed by my partner. It just shows our differing mentalities on customer service.

[hamstercaster 2]

Well I buy my stuff at the LHS except for some items I can't find in store or that my LHS can't obtain for me. That being said, why wouldn't you LHS owners try selling online as well as keeping your shop? In the Montreal area they have Sports Gilbert Rousseau and he sells both online and out of his shop. That could be an alternative I suppose that would probably give you a bit more revenues albeit some hassles to go with it too.. but could be worth trying.

[Cyclone 0]

SRI ought to know about not having STOCK available ...

[TheBert 0]

SRI ought to know about not having STOCK available ...

I swear you must be stalking SRI's posts. Did he sleep with your girlfriend or what? Who are you?

[sitzlejd 0]

I went to my rink pro shop this morning after stick time and was planning on buying some ls2s for my Grafs. I researched the ls2 online and was sure that's what I wanted. Once in the shop, the worker talked with me about what I wanted from my holder and after showing me about 5 different holders and their respective pitches I realized that ls2 were actually not what I wanted and he steered me toward the correct product (custom+). He then asked me when I needed them and I told him that I had a game tomorrow afternoon. He said even though he was busy he would make sure to have them done in time for my game and also offered to sharpen the new steel for free. When I left I was so relieved that I didn't buy the holders online like I had planned. I probably would have bought ls2, had them installed and sharpened, only to realize they were not what I wanted. Where would I be then? Trying to return used holders??? I payed a little more but I got exactly what I wanted and service that more than makes up for the $15-20 I would have saved.

Experiences like this are why the LHS will continue to get the majority of my business.