Cullen hit

[TBLfan 25]

Maybe he put his hands up to avoid the shoulder to head contact, I've done that before. You put your hands to the chest so their head cant make contact, it's a natural reaction to try to catch someone you dont want to kill.

I dont think the hit was dirty. I dont think he had time to intend anything.

[davis 0]

Personally, I thought the hit was clean. The hands were high, yes, but it wasn't a head shot by any means...seems to me, as mentioned earlier, it was the impact with the ice that caused the most damage. He was hit at an awkward angle which is what makes it seem so bad.

You should have known it was gonna be trouble when he was in the middle of the ice with his head down...Cullen is lucky it WASN'T a head shot. Could've been a lot messier than that.

[JPB_69 0]

Maybe he put his hands up to avoid the shoulder to head contact, I've done that before. You put your hands to the chest so their head cant make contact, it's a natural reaction to try to catch someone you dont want to kill.

I dont think the hit was dirty. I dont think he had time to intend anything.

Bingo. Those guys are moving so fast there's not time to "intend" on doing anything. He saw a guy going to the middle with his head down and went for the hit.

[Spreedizzle 1]

Maybe he put his hands up to avoid the shoulder to head contact, I've done that before. You put your hands to the chest so their head cant make contact, it's a natural reaction to try to catch someone you dont want to kill.

I dont think the hit was dirty. I dont think he had time to intend anything.

Bingo. Those guys are moving so fast there's not time to "intend" on doing anything. He saw a guy going to the middle with his head down and went for the hit.

Correction....he saw a guy coming through the middle....head down or up should be irrelevant, his job at that point was to get him off of the puck. Unfortunate for Cullen that he had his head down at the time, and I honestly hope (though not holding my breath) that he learned his lesson on this one. A dirty hit would of had him leading with his head, or leading with his hands high. It looks like prior to the impact that his hands were low, as if looking for a stick or poke check to dislodge the puck. But when Cullen cut back towards him and then faked with his head and shoulders towards Orr as he did the drop pass....THAT is when Orr brought the hands up. Not to lead with the elbow high and into the face, but merely in the act of self-preservation.

[DarkStar50 679]

I think the aunt with balls would also have destroyed Cullen on that collision simply by her being there and Cullen having his head down with a drop pass at center ice in the attack zone. Unfortunately, Cullen put himself in the position to get wrecked in center ice. This isn't a case of a player turning to face the boards and getting nailed from behind or a player skating out from behind the net(aka Death Valley) to by leveled by a check launched from the hash marks. Even Crosby would have had no choice but to hit Cullen! So,is it Sid say hello to a five minute major and a 6 game suspension? I don't think so.

Cullen was in the wrong place at the wrong time and he put himself there.

Jeez, even when I see the kids stickhandling the SmartHockey ball in the hallways outside the rinks, I tell them, "Keep your head up when you do that." Rule #1.

[#96 0]

I think the aunt with balls would also have destroyed Cullen on that collision simply by her being there and Cullen having his head down with a drop pass at center ice in the attack zone. Unfortunately, Cullen put himself in the position to get wrecked in center ice. This isn't a case of a player turning to face the boards and getting nailed from behind or a player skating out from behind the net(aka Death Valley) to by leveled by a check launched from the hash marks. Even Crosby would have had no choice but to hit Cullen! So,is it Sid say hello to a five minute major and a 6 game suspension? I don't think so.

Cullen was in the wrong place at the wrong time and he put himself there.

Jeez, even when I see the kids stickhandling the SmartHockey ball in the hallways outside the rinks, I tell them, "Keep your head up when you do that." Rule #1.

Hahaha.

When they announced the call for "Interference" The Garden erupted. I heard a lot of, "What the F kinda call is that anyway?" It really didn't make sense since the puck was right there when Orrsy hit him. I would have believed and elbowing or unsportsmanlike (For hitting up high) before I woulda believed the interference.

Avery hit Cullen in the first pretty bad, and that was more of a late hit. But there was no call on the play. I gotta go with some of you guys and say the call was a mercy call because of injury.

I really don't mind a 5, maybe even a 10 in cases like that, just because you don't wanna see guys getting hurt. I know it's hard to hold up sometimes, but to kick the guy out, all the penalty minutes, etc. is just BS. I haven't heard about a suspension yet, and there shouldn't be.

[TBLfan 25]

I actually think he tried to avoid killing him. He didn't lower his shoulder it looks like leaned back and held his arms out to avoid the high impact hit. Whether he was trying to protect himself or Cullen is up to you... more than likely, just trying to protect himself.

I'm not a fan of Orr or the Rangers, just call them as I see them.

[RadioGaGa 162]

Cullen: Broken nose...Not concussed.

As per TSN.ca's Ice Chips tonight.

[Chadd 916]

I actually think he tried to avoid killing him. He didn't lower his shoulder it looks like leaned back and held his arms out to avoid the high impact hit. Whether he was trying to protect himself or Cullen is up to you... more than likely, just trying to protect himself.

I'm not a fan of Orr or the Rangers, just call them as I see them.

Orrs hands came up through the point of impact and he followed through up high. If he wasn't trying to take him out high, why is there a follow through with his hands ending up over his head? Hey, if he doesn't make head contact with Cullen, I don't see a problem with the hit. It's the head contact that I see as the problem and it's just not possible for a guy to lead with his head while watching a drop pass behind him.

[DarkStar50 679]

Jeez, if Stillman had just scored on the wrist shot, none of this would have mattered. Just kidding.........

Hockey's a tough game.

[Law Goalie 147]

you can't punish based on a players intentions - because you can't read minds to know what their intentions were. players get penalties all the time for accidental high sticking - and you know what? they still get a penalty. why should concussions from headshots and other major injuries be any different?

"Intent to injure."

It's already in the book. Accidental and intentional penalties are both called routinely. A player who is negligent with his stick and draws blood should get 4; a player who is intentionally violent with his stick and draws blood should get 5 and a game.

No, you can't read minds, but it's pretty easy to infer intent through concrete actions. If Orr had dropped his shoulder into Cullen's chest, and Cullen had suffered a broken clavicle, there would have been no penalty (except maybe this mis-called 'interference.') Why? Because toros-to-torso contact minimises the likelihood of injury in a contact sport; it's also far more effective at separating the man from the play, and completely clean by the book.

Even if Orr did have all the time in the world to think, "Hey, that's Matt Cullen, hated ex-Ranger and all-around softie, cutting across the middle, admiring his pass -- and I'm Colton Orr, and I make money by injuring people -- so by Jove, I'm going to raise my fist into his chin and follow through tremendously with the specific intention of breaking his nose..." and we couldn't, unfortunately, read his mind, the very fact that he punched through Cullen's face shows *implicit* intent to cause injury.

Orr won't be suspended for his thoughts; he'll be suspended for the actions that imply a reckless intent to injure an opponent.

[Theo 1]

you can't punish based on a players intentions - because you can't read minds to know what their intentions were. players get penalties all the time for accidental high sticking - and you know what? they still get a penalty. why should concussions from headshots and other major injuries be any different?

"Intent to injure."

It's already in the book. Accidental and intentional penalties are both called routinely. A player who is negligent with his stick and draws blood should get 4; a player who is intentionally violent with his stick and draws blood should get 5 and a game.

No, you can't read minds, but it's pretty easy to infer intent through concrete actions. If Orr had dropped his shoulder into Cullen's chest, and Cullen had suffered a broken clavicle, there would have been no penalty (except maybe this mis-called 'interference.') Why? Because toros-to-torso contact minimises the likelihood of injury in a contact sport; it's also far more effective at separating the man from the play, and completely clean by the book.

Even if Orr did have all the time in the world to think, "Hey, that's Matt Cullen, hated ex-Ranger and all-around softie, cutting across the middle, admiring his pass -- and I'm Colton Orr, and I make money by injuring people -- so by Jove, I'm going to raise my fist into his chin and follow through tremendously with the specific intention of breaking his nose..." and we couldn't, unfortunately, read his mind, the very fact that he punched through Cullen's face shows *implicit* intent to cause injury.

Orr won't be suspended for his thoughts; he'll be suspended for the actions that imply a reckless intent to injure an opponent.

COLTON IN CLEAR: Colton Orr's hit that knocked Carolina's Matt Cullen unconscious and broke his nose Wednesday will not result in a fine or suspension as NHL VP Colin Campbell ruled it unworthy of a hearing or review.

ANd please have a clue at least when trying to make points. Cullen is not a hated Ex-Ranger. He has many friends in the room and was well liked by all reports and indications. Anyways, that is a BS point because those plays happen so fast I would be shocked if he knew it was Cullen.

As far as the intent to injure, nah.

There was no immediate signal for a penalty. When Cullen's injury became obvious-and only after Orr was jumped by Mike Commodore, who escaped without an instigator penalty referees Dean Warren and Marc Joannette and linesmen Brian Murphy and Anthony Sericolo convened at the boards. The discussion yielded the verdict.

"We were both coming pretty hard. We were both just coming to the middle," said Orr, who did not finish the check so much as find himself unable to avoid it, and who suffered several cuts around the right eye when he was hit with Cullen's helmet. "I was just defending myself."

"I don't want to see anyone get hurt, but I need to protect myself, as well."

So once again, if Orr did in fact punch through Cullen's face, Orr would not have been cut because punching through Cullens face would have pushed Cullen's head back and avoided contact with Orr's face. And yet, there was helmet to helmet contact.. Not to mention, Cullen fell flat on his face, something I didn't even notice until I watched more replays last night (as I paid attention to the contact of the ht itself before that). That would obviously cause the broken nose and such.

Jeez, if Stillman had just scored on the wrist shot, none of this would have mattered. Just kidding.........

Hockey's a tough game.

Bettman's NHL- Obviously the fans are following through with his idea of the perfect game. Surprising some old time guys are complaining the most, when in their era play would have probably continued a few seconds more and of course no punishment would have been awarded to a clean hit

[chippa13 1844]

ANd please have a clue at least when trying to make points. Cullen is not a hated Ex-Ranger. He has many friends in the room and was well liked by all reports and indications. Anyways, that is a BS point because those plays happen so fast I would be shocked if he knew it was Cullen.

Yeah, how could Orr possibly know that the guy who had been carrying the puck was Cullen? That is simply unheard of that he could possibly line up a guy from 20 feet and know who he was.

Not to mention, Cullen fell flat on his face, something I didn't even notice until I watched more replays last night (as I paid attention to the contact of the ht itself before that). That would obviously cause the broken nose and such.

Gosh, what could have made Cullen land flat on his face? Perhaps the fact that he was out on the way down?

[Law Goalie 147]

ANd please have a clue at least when trying to make points. Cullen is not a hated Ex-Ranger. He has many friends in the room and was well liked by all reports and indications. Anyways, that is a BS point because those plays happen so fast I would be shocked if he knew it was Cullen.

I was being facetious -- obviously, too, for comic effect. Does that sound anything like Colton Orr's diction? My point (which you completely missed, and quite illustratively) was that EVEN IF Orr had gone through a thought process like that, and we had it for replay on psychic-Tivo, it wouldn't really matter. By his actions, we know his intent.

He may have known it was Cullen; he may not. One of the things I always heard drilled into forwards was that they had to know who on the other team was on the ice, and where they were, at all times. If you're out against Briere, you look for one set of dangers; if you're out against Scott Stevens, you look for another.

I'd love to know how you can be so damn sure he *didn't* know it was Cullen, and that there *wasn't*. any grudge between him and Orr. I really would. Personal friends of yours, perhaps.?

Oh, and the fact that there wasn't a suspension doesn't change anything. Colin Campbell is about as reliable as a broken wrist-watch. This just isn't one of the two times a day he's right.

[TBLfan 25]

I actually think he tried to avoid killing him. He didn't lower his shoulder it looks like leaned back and held his arms out to avoid the high impact hit. Whether he was trying to protect himself or Cullen is up to you... more than likely, just trying to protect himself.

I'm not a fan of Orr or the Rangers, just call them as I see them.

Orrs hands came up through the point of impact and he followed through up high. If he wasn't trying to take him out high, why is there a follow through with his hands ending up over his head? Hey, if he doesn't make head contact with Cullen, I don't see a problem with the hit. It's the head contact that I see as the problem and it's just not possible for a guy to lead with his head while watching a drop pass behind him.

I think it was just momentum and Cullen's body that pushed Orr's hands up high, he hands didnt start at his face, they started at his chest. Orr was just more upright than Cullen who was low.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

I agree that there is no need for the hillbilly comment since I also live down here now, but still goes without saying though that Tripp is an idiot and might be the worst color guy in the NHL. John is not too bad as a play by play man though

at the same time, he's great when there's a terrible season. At least theres something to laugh at. with "definitiy". food. name drop.

[Chadd 916]

I actually think he tried to avoid killing him. He didn't lower his shoulder it looks like leaned back and held his arms out to avoid the high impact hit. Whether he was trying to protect himself or Cullen is up to you... more than likely, just trying to protect himself.

I'm not a fan of Orr or the Rangers, just call them as I see them.

Orrs hands came up through the point of impact and he followed through up high. If he wasn't trying to take him out high, why is there a follow through with his hands ending up over his head? Hey, if he doesn't make head contact with Cullen, I don't see a problem with the hit. It's the head contact that I see as the problem and it's just not possible for a guy to lead with his head while watching a drop pass behind him.

I think it was just momentum and Cullen's body that pushed Orr's hands up high, he hands didnt start at his face, they started at his chest. Orr was just more upright than Cullen who was low.

Orr's hands were coming up before contact and continued up after impact. Your version doesn't gibe with the video.

[TBLfan 25]

Hit hands were going up from his waist but I dont believe the target of his hands was cullens head, I think he was moving his hands to cullens chest. It a natural reaction to protect yourself and possibly to protect the other person as well.

[chippa13 1844]

Hit hands were going up from his waist but I dont believe the target of his hands was cullens head, I think he was moving his hands to cullens chest. It a natural reaction to protect yourself and possibly to protect the other person as well.

Yes, because if Colton Orr is known for anything it is concern for his opponent's well being.

[Chadd 916]

Hit hands were going up from his waist but I dont believe the target of his hands was cullens head, I think he was moving his hands to cullens chest. It a natural reaction to protect yourself and possibly to protect the other person as well.

And following up and through the other guy is just self defense too

[TBLfan 25]

uuggh, we're just not going to agree on this.

I still believe that Orr was just trying to protect himself from a hard hit by putting his hands in the way of where the contact was being made. It's not like in the moment he has the time to think "Let me punch this guy in the face for good measure" but you definitely have time for natural reactions to happen... Like catching yourself when you fall.

[Theo 1]

Upon reviewing the tape at the Rangers’ request, the NHL has rescinded the major penalty for interference and game misconduct that Colton Orr was assessed

[Chadd 916]

They should have rescinded the interference call, and since head shots aren't a penalty to Colin Campbell it all goes away.

uuggh, we're just not going to agree on this.

I still believe that Orr was just trying to protect himself from a hard hit by putting his hands in the way of where the contact was being made. It's not like in the moment he has the time to think "Let me punch this guy in the face for good measure" but you definitely have time for natural reactions to happen... Like catching yourself when you fall.

If this is Anson Carter or Markus Naslund, I might give him the benefit of the doubt. Since this is a guy whose job is to hurt people, I'm not inclined to believe it was an accident.

[TBLfan 25]

I took that in account too but as much of a scumbag as he is on the ice, I still have to take in natural self-defense reactions over scumbagness.

I'm willing to bow out on an agree to disagree. :)

[Chadd 916]

I took that in account too but as much of a scumbag as he is on the ice, I still have to take in natural self-defense reactions over scumbagness.

I'm willing to bow out on an agree to disagree. :)

I'm down with that