Cullen hit

[camhockey16 5]

I just think this is the case of a tall guy hitting a short guy - it's kind of hard not to end up hitting them in the head when you are a good foot taller.

I don't know if Orr actually meant to hit him in the head or not - but alot of times if just accidentally happens when it is a short vs. tall guy.

on second thought maybe I am wrong, cullen is listed as 6'1 and orr is 6'3 - i think 6'1 for cullen is awful generous, I was guessing 5'11 or 6...

[Theo 1]

I just think this is the case of a tall guy hitting a short guy - it's kind of hard not to end up hitting them in the head when you are a good foot taller.

I don't know if Orr actually meant to hit him in the head or not - but alot of times if just accidentally happens when it is a short vs. tall guy.

on second thought maybe I am wrong, cullen is listed as 6'1 and orr is 6'3 - i think 6'1 for cullen is awful generous, I was guessing 5'11 or 6...

But the thing is, Orr did not hit him in the head, unless you are saying helmet on helmet

[Chadd 916]

The video posted looks pretty ugly though the angles are terrible. That said, if the hit caused a broken nose and knocked him out, then something must have hit him pretty hard in the face. Since I'm not in favor of headshots by any team, and it was yet another fringe player who did it, I have zero sympathy for Orr or the Rangers and hope there is a suspension.

Watch hit frame by frame to justify if that's want you want to do, but the short version is yet another headshot by yet another marginal NHL player.

I agree, no charge on the play. His hands looked high after the hit had happened, but at point of contact his hands were in Cullen's chest. What made the hit so bad was how Cullen's head hit the ice. To be honest, I really don't think there should have even been a call on the play. Cullen needs to pick his head up if he is going to cut through the middle of the ice like that.

The MSG replays really look like he popped Cullen on the jaw with his hand at the point of impact. It's hard to imagine how Cullen would be out cold in mid-air otherwise.

[Theo 1]

The video posted looks pretty ugly though the angles are terrible. That said, if the hit caused a broken nose and knocked him out, then something must have hit him pretty hard in the face. Since I'm not in favor of headshots by any team, and it was yet another fringe player who did it, I have zero sympathy for Orr or the Rangers and hope there is a suspension.

Watch hit frame by frame to justify if that's want you want to do, but the short version is yet another headshot by yet another marginal NHL player.

Orr's helmet (which is the perp in terms of the "head shot") hit Cullen's face and Cullen's large visor must have went down to cause the broken nose. Lest not forget Orr had cuts on his face caused by the helmet to helmet action- Those cuts would not have occured if Orr had his arms/hands/elbows high enough to block or hit Cullens face, which further supports the evidence that Orr hit Cullen in his chest and both heads were forced forward from the impact which cut both player's faces up.

As far as knocking him out, I believe it was caused by the helmet but your conclusion is inaccurate as something does not have to hit him hard in the face. A concussion could have easily occured when Cullen hit the back or side of head on the ice as well.

As far as sympathy, I have little sympathy for a guy who gets tagged while looking down at the ice. It has happened to a great many players and they have no one to blame but themselves since the hit was clean- also since Orr is such a marginal player and bad skater you could see him coming quite easily (although not Cullen since his head was down for seconds before the hit). This is not a situation of a goon attacking a player from behind or such. It was a clean hit, something that is being done away with in the league. But don't blame the guy that did no wrong on the play, blame the one breaking the #1 sin in competitive hockey by looking down way too much.

[camhockey16 5]

maybe the nhl should institute penalties for helmet on helmet collisions like the nfl does for players?

[Chadd 916]

The video posted looks pretty ugly though the angles are terrible. That said, if the hit caused a broken nose and knocked him out, then something must have hit him pretty hard in the face. Since I'm not in favor of headshots by any team, and it was yet another fringe player who did it, I have zero sympathy for Orr or the Rangers and hope there is a suspension.

Watch hit frame by frame to justify if that's want you want to do, but the short version is yet another headshot by yet another marginal NHL player.

Orr's helmet (which is the perp in terms of the "head shot") hit Cullen's face and Cullen's large visor must have went down to cause the broken nose. Lest not forget Orr had cuts on his face caused by the helmet to helmet action- Those cuts would not have occured if Orr had his arms/hands/elbows high enough to block or hit Cullens face, which further supports the evidence that Orr hit Cullen in his chest and both heads were forced forward from the impact which cut both player's faces up.

As far as knocking him out, I believe it was caused by the helmet but your conclusion is inaccurate as something does not have to hit him hard in the face. A concussion could have easily occured when Cullen hit the back or side of head on the ice as well.

As far as sympathy, I have little sympathy for a guy who gets tagged while looking down at the ice. It has happened to a great many players and they have no one to blame but themselves since the hit was clean- also since Orr is such a marginal player and bad skater you could see him coming quite easily (although not Cullen since his head was down for seconds before the hit). This is not a situation of a goon attacking a player from behind or such. It was a clean hit, something that is being done away with in the league. But don't blame the guy that did no wrong on the play, blame the one breaking the #1 sin in competitive hockey by looking down way too much.

If Cullen was still a Ranger you would be howling a different tune.

[camhockey16 5]

nobody knows Orr's intentions while going to make the hit - but the league should still be allowed to punish him for the result - even if it was accidental that he knocked him out.

[GekigangarIII 0]

The video posted looks pretty ugly though the angles are terrible. That said, if the hit caused a broken nose and knocked him out, then something must have hit him pretty hard in the face. Since I'm not in favor of headshots by any team, and it was yet another fringe player who did it, I have zero sympathy for Orr or the Rangers and hope there is a suspension.

Watch hit frame by frame to justify if that's want you want to do, but the short version is yet another headshot by yet another marginal NHL player.

I agree, no charge on the play. His hands looked high after the hit had happened, but at point of contact his hands were in Cullen's chest. What made the hit so bad was how Cullen's head hit the ice. To be honest, I really don't think there should have even been a call on the play. Cullen needs to pick his head up if he is going to cut through the middle of the ice like that.

The MSG replays really look like he popped Cullen on the jaw with his hand at the point of impact. It's hard to imagine how Cullen would be out cold in mid-air otherwise.

I'm pretty sure the ice is what broke his nose, looked like the impact on Orr's shoulder/collar bone area was with the side of his face as he was turned looking behind him. Face plant with a visor on (or off) will do that. I think Cullen was out from the whiplash of hitting Orr's shoulder/neck on the way down. I know, I've been hit exactly like that and had the same effects lol. I didn't think it was a dirty play then, and I don't think it was this time. Orr lined him up to be sure, but it looked like he just couldn't back out when he saw Cullen trying to drop pass it and bent his head down looking behind him. It definitely looks like Orr was tucking his hands in in a defensive position rather than trying to elbow or anything like that.

Had it been many other players they probably would have started to stop or tried to edge one way or another, but Orr isn't the best skater in the world.

Hopefully the lesson learned is, don't try a 2 on 3 drop pass play between the circles.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

yeah, watch Cullen face plant, the ice definitely broke his nose.

The Cane announcers:

"After 5 minutes listening to the hillbilly announcers, they went over everything looking for a penalty. Where was his stick?...his elbow? Shoulder? Oh...where was the puck. Was it charging...how long did he skate before contact? Finally, they concluded it was a legal hit despite the color guy still not happy...however, the refs...an interference and MAJOR. "

I'm not sure that the demeaning bullshit is needed. If you listen to the MSG announcers, they went down the line as well. That and John and Tripp arent even from here.

[UMWhockey 0]

I agree that there is no need for the hillbilly comment since I also live down here now, but still goes without saying though that Tripp is an idiot and might be the worst color guy in the NHL. John is not too bad as a play by play man though

[Langenbrunner15 0]

Hands were a bit high but none-the-less, clean hit. A great hit too, I was watching the game with friends all you heard were the ooo's and ahhh's. I don't think he deserves a suspension at all.

[JPB_69 0]

'Langenbrunner15' date='Dec 27 2007, 02:05 PM' post='512817']

Hands were a bit high but none-the-less, clean hit. A great hit too, I was watching the game with friends all you heard were the ooo's and ahhh's. I don't think he deserves a suspension at all.

Agree 100%.

[KingPest19 0]

nobody knows Orr's intentions while going to make the hit - but the league should still be allowed to punish him for the result - even if it was accidental that he knocked him out.

The day the league starts punishing for ACCIDENTS is the day its time to find a new sport to watch. You cant punish for results of somethign accidetnal or next thing you know theres going to be a thousand suspensions a year.

[Spreedizzle 1]

nobody knows Orr's intentions while going to make the hit - but the league should still be allowed to punish him for the result - even if it was accidental that he knocked him out.

I disagree with you on this one due to one principle....it sounds as though this could lead to skating a thin line by punishing players simply due to injury inflicted and not due to the legality of a hit or play.

If ANY hit, contact, stick up, etc etc in the NHL is an illegal play and causes injury, then I agree. The severity of the injury should play a role in the consequences served by the offender. However if it is a clean play (not judging on the Cullen hit...just in general) and an injury occurs, then the league office should have no bearing on a suspension or other consequences.

[mrusse01 0]

'Langenbrunner15' date='Dec 27 2007, 02:05 PM' post='512817']

Hands were a bit high but none-the-less, clean hit. A great hit too, I was watching the game with friends all you heard were the ooo's and ahhh's. I don't think he deserves a suspension at all.

Agree 100%.

I agree.

Hockey is a violent sport. That's just what it is. Every once and a while someone is going to get hurt really badly on a play that falls within the rules of the game, but that doesn't mean we should change the rules. Nobody with any sense likes to see a player get hurt, but it happens and it is a part of the game.

I don't care if it was Colton Orr or Bobby Orr laying that hit, there shouldn't have been a penalty and there shouldn't be a suspension.

[chilaxin12 2]

I agree, no charge on the play. His hands looked high after the hit had happened, but at point of contact his hands were in Cullen's chest. What made the hit so bad was how Cullen's head hit the ice. To be honest, I really don't think there should have even been a call on the play. Cullen needs to pick his head up if he is going to cut through the middle of the ice like that.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head. You don't cut across center ice in the offensive zone with your head down in the NHL, if Scott Stevens had been in Orr's place Cullen would probably be dead.

[chippa13 1844]

Orr's hit was a charge (due to distance traveled), and a major for charging because Cullen got hurt. I'm not expecting follow up, because his hands were in and Cullens head was down. It's unfortunate. Orr really didnt have any time to pull out once Cullens head went down, it was a split second.

I guess I'm saying the check was clean, but because he went out of his way it made it a charge, and major because of the injury (minor had he not been hurt).

Avery I do hate because hes not on my team, but he does his job well. However, his uppercut under the linesman was a pretty low move.

that was not a charge. Watch the first video and Orr is staying with the man that he is covering. Also I thought that avery hit the lines man but after seeing the replay he did NOT hit the lines man

He shouldn't have been trying to throw a shot, period. Avery had no interest in going with Nolan until after the linesmen stepped in. Of course, that was after his brave manhandling of Letowski from behind. Yeah, that Avery is one class guy and stand up hockey player.

[camhockey16 5]

nobody knows Orr's intentions while going to make the hit - but the league should still be allowed to punish him for the result - even if it was accidental that he knocked him out.

The day the league starts punishing for ACCIDENTS is the day its time to find a new sport to watch. You cant punish for results of somethign accidetnal or next thing you know theres going to be a thousand suspensions a year.

i don't think you understand what i mean

i bet if you ask every nhl player that has been suspended this year if they meant to hurt the player, they would all say "no" and that it was not intentional.

you can't punish based on a players intentions - because you can't read minds to know what their intentions were. players get penalties all the time for accidental high sticking - and you know what? they still get a penalty. why should concussions from headshots and other major injuries be any different?

[BMcDonald19 0]

'Langenbrunner15' date='Dec 27 2007, 02:05 PM' post='512817']

Hands were a bit high but none-the-less, clean hit. A great hit too, I was watching the game with friends all you heard were the ooo's and ahhh's. I don't think he deserves a suspension at all.

Agree 100%.

i second that, it wasnt a charge. i ref, and you can be going as fast as you want, as long as there is a few second where you are gliding and your feet arent moving, its not a charge.it wasnt late, and matty had his head down... maybe now rockem,sockem with some more of theses hits

[Chadd 916]

nobody knows Orr's intentions while going to make the hit - but the league should still be allowed to punish him for the result - even if it was accidental that he knocked him out.

The day the league starts punishing for ACCIDENTS is the day its time to find a new sport to watch. You cant punish for results of somethign accidetnal or next thing you know theres going to be a thousand suspensions a year.

i don't think you understand what i mean

i bet if you ask every nhl player that has been suspended this year if they meant to hurt the player, they would all say "no" and that it was not intentional.

you can't punish based on a players intentions - because you can't read minds to know what their intentions were. players get penalties all the time for accidental high sticking - and you know what? they still get a penalty. why should concussions from headshots and other major injuries be any different?

Part of the reason they went so easy on Jones after his hit on Bergeron is that it wasn't deemed "intentional". I disagree as the hit was obviously intentional, despite Bergeron being vulnerable.

As I've said numerous times, Colin Campbell has to go.

[Theo 1]

The video posted looks pretty ugly though the angles are terrible. That said, if the hit caused a broken nose and knocked him out, then something must have hit him pretty hard in the face. Since I'm not in favor of headshots by any team, and it was yet another fringe player who did it, I have zero sympathy for Orr or the Rangers and hope there is a suspension.

Watch hit frame by frame to justify if that's want you want to do, but the short version is yet another headshot by yet another marginal NHL player.

Orr's helmet (which is the perp in terms of the "head shot") hit Cullen's face and Cullen's large visor must have went down to cause the broken nose. Lest not forget Orr had cuts on his face caused by the helmet to helmet action- Those cuts would not have occured if Orr had his arms/hands/elbows high enough to block or hit Cullens face, which further supports the evidence that Orr hit Cullen in his chest and both heads were forced forward from the impact which cut both player's faces up.

As far as knocking him out, I believe it was caused by the helmet but your conclusion is inaccurate as something does not have to hit him hard in the face. A concussion could have easily occured when Cullen hit the back or side of head on the ice as well.

As far as sympathy, I have little sympathy for a guy who gets tagged while looking down at the ice. It has happened to a great many players and they have no one to blame but themselves since the hit was clean- also since Orr is such a marginal player and bad skater you could see him coming quite easily (although not Cullen since his head was down for seconds before the hit). This is not a situation of a goon attacking a player from behind or such. It was a clean hit, something that is being done away with in the league. But don't blame the guy that did no wrong on the play, blame the one breaking the #1 sin in competitive hockey by looking down way too much.

If Cullen was still a Ranger you would be howling a different tune.

If my aunt had balls she would be my uncle. Feel free to come back with some facts or points. Perhaps on how youth hockey should reverse their ways and teach young kids to skate with their head down so they can get wrecked at center ice. Or how Orr could be all cut up when he lead and pushed at Cullens head with his arms/hands during the collision.

As far as the hillbilly comment, I just quoted someone.

Honestly, I have learned to like Cullen a great deal last season and wanted him back big time. He will always be fondly regarded by me, but when you are that reckless with your play it is only a matter of him before you get taken out. He did it as a Ranger a lot as well, but never got caught that badly. Last I checked, Hockey is still a contact sport and the onus is on the player to protect himself- especially when the infractions are legal

[Chadd 916]

If my aunt had balls she would be my uncle. Feel free to come back with some facts or points. Perhaps on how youth hockey should reverse their ways and teach young kids to skate with their head down so they can get wrecked at center ice. Or how Orr could be all cut up when he lead and pushed at Cullens head with his arms/hands during the collision.

As far as the hillbilly comment, I just quoted someone

Like the "facts" that you use to defend you point of view?

[BMcDonald19 0]

The video posted looks pretty ugly though the angles are terrible. That said, if the hit caused a broken nose and knocked him out, then something must have hit him pretty hard in the face. Since I'm not in favor of headshots by any team, and it was yet another fringe player who did it, I have zero sympathy for Orr or the Rangers and hope there is a suspension.

Watch hit frame by frame to justify if that's want you want to do, but the short version is yet another headshot by yet another marginal NHL player.

Orr's helmet (which is the perp in terms of the "head shot") hit Cullen's face and Cullen's large visor must have went down to cause the broken nose. Lest not forget Orr had cuts on his face caused by the helmet to helmet action- Those cuts would not have occured if Orr had his arms/hands/elbows high enough to block or hit Cullens face, which further supports the evidence that Orr hit Cullen in his chest and both heads were forced forward from the impact which cut both player's faces up.

As far as knocking him out, I believe it was caused by the helmet but your conclusion is inaccurate as something does not have to hit him hard in the face. A concussion could have easily occured when Cullen hit the back or side of head on the ice as well.

As far as sympathy, I have little sympathy for a guy who gets tagged while looking down at the ice. It has happened to a great many players and they have no one to blame but themselves since the hit was clean- also since Orr is such a marginal player and bad skater you could see him coming quite easily (although not Cullen since his head was down for seconds before the hit). This is not a situation of a goon attacking a player from behind or such. It was a clean hit, something that is being done away with in the league. But don't blame the guy that did no wrong on the play, blame the one breaking the #1 sin in competitive hockey by looking down way too much.

If Cullen was still a Ranger you would be howling a different tune.

If my aunt had balls she would be my uncle. Feel free to come back with some facts or points. Perhaps on how youth hockey should reverse their ways and teach young kids to skate with their head down so they can get wrecked at center ice. Or how Orr could be all cut up when he lead and pushed at Cullens head with his arms/hands during the collision.

watch the hit in slow motion, first point of impact is cullens chest, not his head. there was nothing wrong with that... and dude an aunt with balls.... weh.. thats alittle much for me.

[Chadd 916]

watch the hit in slow motion, first point of impact is cullens chest, not his head. there was nothing wrong with that... and dude an aunt with balls.... weh.. thats alittle much for me.

The MSG slow-mo sure looks like his fist (holding the butt end of the stick) impacts Cullen's chin.

EDIT:1:50 or so on the MSG video you can see his hands coming up into the hit. Yes, the cuff of his glove is below the chin but the fist is not and catches him right on the button. I agree with Micheletti that interference is wrong. But even he says that he doesn't have a problem with them calling a penalty, only that it was an interference.

[bbruins8 0]

If he would have kept his arms down, would have been a clean hit. Interference definitely the wrong call the guy had the puck a half second before that, shouldn't have been looking down at his feet IMO.