Ryan Smyth-Wayne Gretzky

[JR97 2]

When you design the perfect hockey player, you get Mario. Size, skill, reach, etc. You don't get Wayne Gretzky. But the Great One dominated the league like no other has and probably never will.

So what if goalies weren't the caliber they are now and defense was an afterthought. Gretzky did what no one was doing at the time and practically revolutionized the way the game is played. He took the game to a whole new level. As great as Mario was... and he was by far the most sick player to ever lace them up talent wise... Mario didn't re-invent the game like Gretzky did.

I recently saw the OLN Fearless episode about Mario. It's amazing what he did considering he was always in chronic back pain and later coming back from Hodgkin's disease. A diety among men. It almost wasn't fair.

[TBLfan 25]

I think that if Lecavalier and Kovalev had as much heart and hockey smarts as Mario did, let alone Gretzky, they would definitely be in the running for best player of all time... But that ship has sailed for the both of them. Just to be compared to those two as hockey greats you need to come into the NHL with those qualities, not develop them... This is what sets Crosby, Ovechkin and maybe even a few others as standouts. The hope that these kids can develop into what THOSE guys came into the league with.

[trevor13478 1]

I think that if Lecavalier and Kovalev had as much heart and hockey smarts as Mario did, let alone Gretzky, they would definitely be in the running for best player of all time... But that ship has sailed for the both of them. Just to be compared to those two as hockey greats you need to come into the NHL with those qualities, not develop them... This is what sets Crosby, Ovechkin and maybe even a few others as standouts. The hope that these kids can develop into what THOSE guys came into the league with.

Phil Kessel has some of the best senses for the game that i have ever seen in a kid that young, he has great speed and a killer snap shot as well, he's deffinetly a keeper. sorry, just my little plug for one of my favorite players :P

[TBLfan 25]

Kid has heart, NO one can deny that.

[trevor13478 1]

for any Gretz bashers (if there is such a thing) i just heard while watching the Bruins - Preds game on NESN that there is a greater gap between #1 and 2 on the all time scoring list than between #2 and 78. pretty crazy little fun fact.

[Tailboard Jockey 25]

It helps that Gretzky was surrounded by some great players when he was in his prime.

[stick9 891]

Right on, he read a play soo incredibly well and even moreso he could tell where the puck was going before it went there. If you have two steps on someone to get to a puck, you're going to beat them to the puck.

Gretz is clearly the greatest player to ever play in the NHL, but he was never the most talented.

Believe me, I'm a huge fan of Gretzky. All time he has to be my favorite player, but I've come to terms with the fact that he wasn't the most talented player on the ice. In fact, I've come to terms that his career is more impressive because of that, he proved that you didn't have to be a certain type of guy to make it... Smart can win out. For you smaller guys, this is something you guys should think about.

Wouldn't you agree that since he wasn't the most physically skilled player out there. He had to posses an extreme amount of talent to dominate the way he did, and for as long as he did?

I'm a huge Gretz fan, always have been. I agree that his greatest strength was the way he thought the game. But, I don't think it was the only thing that enabled him to do the things he did. He had great hands, awesome vision, a deadly accurate shot, and as you mentioned, thought the game better then anyone ever has. I also think his skating has gone a little underrated.

[TBLfan 25]

It depends on what exactly you mean by talent. His hands weren't nearly as good as the best players in the league nowadays, his shot was accurate but I think Kovalev and Lecavalier can give him a definite run for his money. I've SEEN Lecavalier shoot pucks through the camera holes in the corners from the top of the circle 3 for 3, he laughed at marty when he hit the glass and went through.

I don't think his skating was very impressive, he had amazing balance but he wasn't a great skater. He was certainly NHL good but you can find some mid and even low quality NHLers nowadays that could give Gretz a run for his money on basic skating drills.

This is NOT a knock on Gretzky's ability, it's amazing to me how despite all of this, he is the greatest hockey player of all time by FAR.

[Theo 1]

It helps that Gretzky was surrounded by some great players when he was in his prime.

As was Mario...What's the point?

[Neal 41]

It helps that Gretzky was surrounded by some great players when he was in his prime.

As was Mario...What's the point?

And lots of those players weren't so great when they weren't skating with Wayne or Mario. Great players make other players better and skating with good players makes those great players even better. Gretzky and Lemieux looked best skating next to each other in the Canada Cup IMO.

[Tailboard Jockey 25]

It helps that Gretzky was surrounded by some great players when he was in his prime.

As was Mario...What's the point?

My point is that if he was playing with a bunch of douchebags, instead of guys like Kurri, Messier, Coffey, Anderson, Fuhr, Lowe, MacTavish, etc., he wouldn't have gotten as many goals, assists, and Stanley Cups as he did. As great a player as he is, he couldn't have accomplished what he did without a great team.

[TBLfan 25]

Well yeah, of course BUT... Look at how he played for team Canada. With the best in the world and he was STILL the best on the ice. Again, not the most talented physical wise but by FAR the smartest and always the center of all the action.

[mack 44]

Holy shit, where's Smyth? Why is his name in the thread title? It's this goddamn discussion again.

[stick9 891]

Gretzky made those players better, not the other way around. Remember, he carried a pretty average Kings team all the way to the finals.

If Gretzky doesn't put up those insane numbers, maybe the Oilers don't win all those cups...

Kurri never scored more then 71. He only broke the 60 goal mark twice - 68 & 71. Other then those two seasons his next highest was 54.

85/86 was Gretzky's best year, 215 points. He was 74 points better then the second leading scorer (Mario) that year.

To say the guys around him made him what was is a major injustice.

[Jat 0]

I agree ^

[Tailboard Jockey 25]

I believe that those guys all made each other better. If Gretzky's teams totally sucked, then all the other teams would just have to concentrate on him.

[Theo 1]

It helps that Gretzky was surrounded by some great players when he was in his prime.

As was Mario...What's the point?

My point is that if he was playing with a bunch of douchebags, instead of guys like Kurri, Messier, Coffey, Anderson, Fuhr, Lowe, MacTavish, etc., he wouldn't have gotten as many goals, assists, and Stanley Cups as he did. As great a player as he is, he couldn't have accomplished what he did without a great team.

Which holds true to pretty much most to all great players who amass a lot of points and especially cups

[Chadd 916]

Holy shit, where's Smyth? Why is his name in the thread title? It's this goddamn discussion again.

How many points would Smyth have put up playing with Gretz? Sorry, best I could do to bring him back into the discussion.

[Neal 41]

Holy shit, where's Smyth? Why is his name in the thread title? It's this goddamn discussion again.

How many points would Smyth have put up playing with Gretz? Sorry, best I could do to bring him back into the discussion.

You've got to figure that if Gretzky could get Mike Krushelnyski 43, Smyth would have scored 60+ skating on his wing.

[Karly14 21]

another nhl man crush-Brad Richards on Joe Sakic

[TBLfan 25]

I think that's stretching it a bit.