Blade Sauce?

[NuggyBuggy 0]

So, is there "proof" that this stuff works, beyond anecdotal evidence ? Where are the independent and double-blind studies ? ;)

[Gummer12 134]

So, is there "proof" that this stuff works, beyond anecdotal evidence ? Where are the independent and double-blind studies ? wink.gif

JR, I remember a while back, you mentioning something about a new product you've been doing some testing and blind testing on for your final pass or afterwards that was truly supposed to make the skate faster on the ice... Any more info on that? Or is that still on the down-low?

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

So, is there "proof" that this stuff works, beyond anecdotal evidence ? Where are the independent and double-blind studies ? ;)

OOOOOOH

touche

http://www.maximumedge.ca/Product%20info.htm

about 5 items down is what your looking for i think...my LHS uses it on all skates after sharpening. Not bad stuff IMO

Blade Glaze isn't anything more than citrus cleaner.

[oggy_3 0]

Before I post what I have found on the subject, I can tell you that the source for this information is genuine. He has an impeccable reputation for caring for his customers and as an excellent skate sharpening facility. I use them for sharpening and have always been 100% satisfied with the sharpening and profiling they do for me. I have used them since last summer.

As per the noicingsports.com website:

For the serious hockey player, we offer a performance blade finish. While our regular skate sharpening produces an excellent finish, the blade's performance can be improved even more with this optional treatment. Similar to what Olympic speed skaters use, we apply a special space-age compound to your skate's blades during the sharpening process. Unlike oils and waxes, we actually grind this special compound into the blade where it bonds with the metal, kind of like a teflon coat. The compound significantly reduces friction and drag and will increase your glide and speed. The results are amazing. Also unlike oils and waxes, it will not wear off after a few minutes, it will last 2-3 skates. Make Blade Finishing part of your regularly scheduled sharpening routine.

No Icing Sports

I have gone to the four plex in moncton and the guy sharpening skates there told me about it so i decided to pay the extra two bucks and it was worth it. During the game i felt when i was gliding that i was going farther then normal even those the ice at the rink is terrible.

[yianni54 2]

Does this have to be applied during the sharpening process or is it wiped on after?

[jimmy 194]

There are quite a few oils and waxes that improve glide. Most of the treatments that shops use is ground into the steel. What I use at my shop is something NASA uses but it has to be ground in. IMO, the best topical treatment is Finn High Speed Skating Oil. It works, and is approved by Olympics for application immediately before the event.

[DEATHTRON 19]

I did some initial googling, didnt find much. Is there somewhere special to order this stuff?

Zach

[fcvapor05 1]

You guys are buying the snake oil hard....

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

I have recently gone back to a product that had worked before and improved it on my own. With the addition to proper cleaning of the blade before during and after I have had 100% positive feedback. A clean blade with something to maintain the temp and has something to it to additional help with the glide.

I again tried the whole trick with taking the teams skates and doing the complete process including polishing all the blades. Again I had everyone but one person like it and the one that didnt said they may have knocked an edge on the bench because it didnt feel like it was holding properly. I did for the first time get a compliment from one of the players that has never said anything but thanks. They came off and after an awesome game said that was the best they have felt all year. Snake oil or not they had no idea what was done till after the game.

[fcvapor05 1]

The physics of how a skate interacts with the ice means no 'coating' on the blade is going to create less friction between the ice and the blade. It is what it is.

If you wanted to make the argument that polishing or otherwise treating the blade during sharpening, in an effort to leave the hollow surface smoother to reduce friction, is worthwhile, I likely wouldn't argue with you. But that's a horse of a different color, and in any event, I have a hard time believing that the actual surface finish on the blade hollow is going to be a *noticeable* difference to the skater, beyond the placebo effect.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

But if they had no idea I was doing what I did how do you explain when a player comes off and says they felt so awesome they actually felt faster then? Just saying there has to be something to it. Even if it is so minimal it really isn't worth marketing as the product I use is my own in the making.

I know maybe I am just that good...LOL

[fcvapor05 1]

But if they had no idea I was doing what I did how do you explain when a player comes off and says they felt so awesome they actually felt faster then? Just saying there has to be something to it. Even if it is so minimal it really isn't worth marketing as the product I use is my own in the making.

I know maybe I am just that good...LOL

I think the payoff comes from mechanically polishing the blades, not from whatever coating you applied.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

The sides of the blade will not make the blade run smoother and faster on the bottom of the blade though?

[jimmy 194]

We've blind tested as well. Similar to what OTG has said, skaters can tell the difference in both blind and placebo effect cases. I can't tell you how many times a parent either forgot to get the treatment, or intentionally didn't get it because they thought the kid wouldn't know any difference, who were then later chastised by the kid who immediately knew they didn't get it as soon as they stepped on the ice.

[Davetronz 109]

Also, how many of us have called a shop for an emergency sharpening or piece of equipment only to find that the shop has closed? No Icing has an emergency email address where they will open the store to accommodate your after hour needs.

Interested to hear the opinion of some of the other guys in the industry on this one... Maybe someone can chime in who's called on this service from the shop in question and their experience/feedback.

I mean I've turned around on the way home and gone back to the store to give someone a pair of skates that weren't picked up in time... sharpened another "last" pair 30 minutes or even an hour after closing if I'm still in the shop... made on-the-fly exceptions for regular customers or semi-pro/pro players... but when it comes to non-professional, recreational hockey or ringette, how many true "emergencies" are there? I feel this is a gateway for some people to abuse the system because they need their jets touched up before a 10:30pm rec game. I'm a really nice guy (maybe bordering on "too nice") who will do as much as I can for my skaters, but where's the line between customer service and personal life for you or your staff?

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

It also may depend if you live near or beside the actual shop? Doesnt Jimmy live in a close building?

[jimmy 194]

It also may depend if you live near or beside the actual shop? Doesnt Jimmy live in a close building?

Yes, I live in my shop, my bed is right next to the Blackstone. Not! But if someone has a true emergency, e.g.broke a blade at night and has a game in the morning, yes, I've been known to come in after hours to help them out. I once agreed to come in after hours only to find out later it was the Govenor of our State. But if it's some Massengil Award contender who just forgot to get his skates sharpened, that's not going to happen. Yes, my service was abused.

[Davetronz 109]

...But if it's some Massengil Award contender who just forgot to get his skates sharpened, that's not going to happen...

LOL I had to Google this one, and can safely say it's being added to my "list". Haha

[jimmy 194]

LOL I had to Google this one, and can safely say it's being added to my "list". Haha

See, not only is MSH good for hockey info, it's good for real life experiences as well. :-)

[AfftonDad 88]

I looked for Dupont Teflon Wax on the internet and couldn't really find any local sources for it (I did find something for chainsaw chains). So I tried some Meguiars Polymer (Hydrophobic) Detailing polish that I had in the garage. I did my final sharpening passes with it, honed and then spayred one more covering on and wiped off. I then let it "cure" (for 12 hours) as the instructions say for a car. I am 99% sure that the extra glide I felt wasn't placebo effect.

In the article below, I don't know what they mean by the runners became hydrophobic by just sitting in the lab. Does that mean that she had so much of the stuff in the air that the runners just picked it up? That's pretty scary. Don't think I would want to breathe that air.

http://www2.macleans.ca/tag/hydrophobia/

[smcgreg 81]

I looked for Dupont Teflon Wax on the internet and couldn't really find any local sources for it (I did find something for chainsaw chains). So I tried some Meguiars Polymer (Hydrophobic) Detailing polish that I had in the garage. I did my final sharpening passes with it, honed and then spayred one more covering on and wiped off. I then let it "cure" (for 12 hours) as the instructions say for a car. I am 99% sure that the extra glide I felt wasn't placebo effect.

In the article below, I don't know what they mean by the runners became hydrophobic by just sitting in the lab. Does that mean that she had so much of the stuff in the air that the runners just picked it up? That's pretty scary. Don't think I would want to breathe that air.

http://www2.macleans.ca/tag/hydrophobia/

Hmm... any idea how hot a blade gets during sharpening? I believe PTFE requires some pretty high temps to bond to metal, which I doubt would be reached during sharpening, but it would be interesting to know.

[AfftonDad 88]

Skate sharpening doesn't get the blades very hot (unless you are doing it wrong). I doubt there is much bonding or crosslinking going on. Probably just depositing a layer on top. I expect it to wear off pretty quickly.

[smcgreg 81]

Skate sharpening doesn't get the blades very hot (unless you are doing it wrong). I doubt there is much bonding or crosslinking going on. Probably just depositing a layer on top. I expect it to wear off pretty quickly.

Right, that's what I assumed, but thought I'd ask. once you mentioned Teflon, then I realized what we might be talking about. It's not like a ski wax though, that's going to get into the fibers of the ski. It's going to need to adhere to the surface of the blade to be effective, and that's a whole different animal. Even if it does provide enhanced glide, I would expect it would only last a shift or two. Granted, anything that makes that first shift easier is probably worth a bunch of money to me.

[AfftonDad 88]

Right, that's what I assumed, but thought I'd ask. once you mentioned Teflon, then I realized what we might be talking about. It's not like a ski wax though, that's going to get into the fibers of the ski. It's going to need to adhere to the surface of the blade to be effective, and that's a whole different animal. Even if it does provide enhanced glide, I would expect it would only last a shift or two. Granted, anything that makes that first shift easier is probably worth a bunch of money to me.

I think it lasted my whole game last night. Since the other people mentioned that the stuff they used is applied during sharpening, I figured I would do that as well with the hopes that it would better "impregnate" it into the microscopic "pits" of the runner. Then I applied some after the sharpening was done in the hopes that it would crosslink to the stuff already present in the "pits".

Could have just been in my mind... or maybe the ice was just harder last night!

[jimmy 194]

I looked for Dupont Teflon Wax on the internet and couldn't really find any local sources for it (I did find something for chainsaw chains). So I tried some Meguiars Polymer (Hydrophobic) Detailing polish that I had in the garage. I did my final sharpening passes with it, honed and then spayred one more covering on and wiped off. I then let it "cure" (for 12 hours) as the instructions say for a car. I am 99% sure that the extra glide I felt wasn't placebo effect.

In the article below, I don't know what they mean by the runners became hydrophobic by just sitting in the lab. Does that mean that she had so much of the stuff in the air that the runners just picked it up? That's pretty scary. Don't think I would want to breathe that air.

http://www2.macleans.ca/tag/hydrophobia/

This is why for Olympic Speed skating they are allowed to apply treatments to their blades right before the event, but not in advance.