Is Scott Stevens one of the top 10 D-men of all time?

[gxc999 7]

Jumping back on the main topic for a moment, I really think Stevens was a top 10 defenseman. I hated the Devils back in their earlier glory days, but now having a grudging respect for Stevens. If memory serves, he put up some impressive offensive numbers early on in his career too. Did he make some questionable hits? Yes. A lot? Maybe, but I don't recall him Chris Simon-ing people at any point ever.

[chippa13 1844]

Stevens was a punishing hitter but outside of that I don't see him as top 10 ever.

[ubitsa 0]

He also gets the C after they win the cup, shows how much leading he did for the them. In my eyes he did lead them to a cup. He was the major additon, he was he one standing in their way the year before a was the biggest factor from the semi finals loss to the cup win. If you want to piss on the claim, then it's very easy to dismiss Stevens "leading" his team to anything.

Well....giving him the C didn't mean a hell of a lot. The other two leading candidates (Niedermayer, Selanne) weren't on the team at the time. Who the hell else were they going to give it to...Mathieu Schneider, who had just joined the team?

[mack 44]

Just joining the team isn't an excuse anymore, especially when Annie gave it to Niedermayer when he signed with them. Guerin got it and he's never played on the Islanders before, either. It doesn't matter where you came from or how long you'd been there if you can lead.

[ubitsa 0]

Just joining the team isn't an excuse anymore, especially when Annie gave it to Niedermayer when he signed with them. Guerin got it and he's never played on the Islanders before, either. It doesn't matter where you came from or how long you'd been there if you can lead.

That's because the Islanders suck ass and is a commentary on the current state of that team. But even if Pronger was only a slightly above average defenseman, not Norris quality, who are you going to give the C to....him or Mathieu Schneider? I mean really. To be honest though, it was a surprise to me that Selanne didn't have the C last year for the Ducks. Both Niedermayer and Selanne were coming (in Selanne's case coming back) to the Ducks in the same year, so given his past, I'd have expected them to give the C to Teemu.

[mack 44]

How many seasons have you played with Schneider? I myself have logged absolutely zero with him so I've no clue how he is as a leader. I'm not saying he was a candidate or the best candidate, I'm just saying you can't overlook a person just because they recently joined a team.

A team's talent has nothing to do with their choice of who should be captain, so that part of the argument fails right off the bat. I also don't see Selanne being tagged with a C as he only got the A if someone was hurt.

[chippa13 1844]

It will all be moot once they decide to give Getzlaf the "C" down the road.

[ubitsa 0]

How many seasons have you played with Schneider? I myself have logged absolutely zero with him so I've no clue how he is as a leader. I'm not saying he was a candidate or the best candidate, I'm just saying you can't overlook a person just because they recently joined a team.

A team's talent has nothing to do with their choice of who should be captain, so that part of the argument fails right off the bat. I also don't see Selanne being tagged with a C as he only got the A if someone was hurt.

My point is that the Ducks already had some viable candidates for the C. It's fully possible for a newcomer to be given the C, but all things considered, I don't think it can really help your chances. And no, talent or lack thereof doesn't necessarily determine whether or not you will be given captaincy, but it tends to happen that way. Crosby with Pittsburgh, Chara (well, that's debatable, but he's close) with Boston, Lidstrom with Detroit, Jokinen with Florida...talent doesn't hurt, that's for sure. You don't see too many teams with lackluster 3rd liners as their captain regardless of how much leadership skill they have. And if it's not one of the team's most talented players, then it's usually a team veteran...which doesn't describe Schneider either with regards to the Ducks.

[chippa13 1844]

Bergeron will be Boston's captain before too long.

[mack 44]

How many seasons have you played with Schneider? I myself have logged absolutely zero with him so I've no clue how he is as a leader. I'm not saying he was a candidate or the best candidate, I'm just saying you can't overlook a person just because they recently joined a team.

A team's talent has nothing to do with their choice of who should be captain, so that part of the argument fails right off the bat. I also don't see Selanne being tagged with a C as he only got the A if someone was hurt.

My point is that the Ducks already had some viable candidates for the C. It's fully possible for a newcomer to be given the C, but all things considered, I don't think it can really help your chances. And no, talent or lack thereof doesn't necessarily determine whether or not you will be given captaincy, but it tends to happen that way. Crosby with Pittsburgh, Chara (well, that's debatable, but he's close) with Boston, Lidstrom with Detroit, Jokinen with Florida...talent doesn't hurt, that's for sure. You don't see too many teams with lackluster 3rd liners as their captain regardless of how much leadership skill they have. And if it's not one of the team's most talented players, then it's usually a team veteran...which doesn't describe Schneider either with regards to the Ducks.

I still don't see why Pronger getting it somehow overlooks all the other candidates on the team. Pronger and R. Niedermayer were the alternates, so I would be okay with Rob getting it but I think they're fine with Pronger getting it. He's been a captain for a large chunk of his career and obviously a leader in the locker room.

[Eazy_b97 1]

Well....giving him the C didn't mean a hell of a lot. The other two leading candidates (Niedermayer, Selanne) weren't on the team at the time. Who the hell else were they going to give it to...Mathieu Schneider, who had just joined the team?

Rob Niedermayer had been there for a while, Beauch had been stepping up for them, Kunitz was another possibility, alternating between players or not using a Captain was also an option. Pronger didn't have to get it, but they chose to give it to him.

[epstud74 24]

Maybe we need three separate categories?

Best offensive defensemen

Best defensive defensemen

Best All-Around defensemen

All three types of players have their valuable merits

Guys like Paul Coffey were very different from players like Serge Savard or Scott Stevens. I guess you could compare Orr to Coffey in skating ability, but Orr was a better all-around player.

Chelios and Leetch were comparable in their primes, maybe Leetchie was a bit better offensively, but not as strong as Chelios in the corners.

Larry Robinson? He rarely had to fight, but when he did..He whupped ass...He could do it all..Score, pass and hit..Perhaps resembles Chris Pronger in size...Their accomplishments are vastly different though

I guess you could go with top ten of different eras too..with guys like

Doug Harvey, Pierre Pilote, etc

All-Around guys for example:

Orr

Bourque

Robinson

[-brady2 0]

15. Housley

14. Pierre Pilote

13. Tim Horton

12. Savard

11. Lidstrom

10. Neidermayer

9. Chris Chelios

8. Shore

7. Leetch

6. Potvin

5. Larry Robinson

4. Ray Bourque

3. Doug Harvey

2. Paul Coffey

1. Bobby Orr

4 through 10 are all debatable on position. Stevens had nothing that special other than his ability to ruin players open ice. Honorable mention to Lidstrom

[mrusse01 0]

^ Fail. Lidstrom is without question one of the top 10 of all-time.

[cxo 0]

And if not ten, then he should easily make your top 15 list. I don't even care for Detroit and the plethora of bandwagon fans in this state, and there's still no way I wouldn't argue Lidstrom in the top 15.

[mrusse01 0]

And if not ten, then he should easily make your top 15 list. I don't even care for Detroit and the plethora of bandwagon fans in this state, and there's still no way I wouldn't argue Lidstrom in the top 15.

He put him at 11.

I don't get the 'honorable mention' thing either when he's already on the list though.

[cxo 0]

I didn't even read through the list (clearly). Oh well, bad list. Too much opinion not enough fact in this thread.

[bucko 0]

for me been playing defense all my live, i liked the way stevens played, i would say he was a straight player, not over skilled like some others on the list, but a very very good player. i think you should just split the list in two criterias, stay at home d-men, abd offensive d-men, that would be interresting for me.

but back to topic, for me he´s not one of the top 10, there have been other players who had more influence to the game than stevens.

[mack 44]

I didn't even read through the list (clearly). Oh well, bad list. Too much opinion not enough fact in this thread.

Like someone putting personal feelings for a city and state into it? Yeah, shit like that.

[cxo 0]

Can't even argue that.

[Chadd 916]

for me been playing defense all my live, i liked the way stevens played, i would say he was a straight player, not over skilled like some others on the list, but a very very good player. i think you should just split the list in two criterias, stay at home d-men, abd offensive d-men, that would be interresting for me.

but back to topic, for me he´s not one of the top 10, there have been other players who had more influence to the game than stevens.

All of the other guys were able to produce at a high level at both ends of the ice. As for making split lists, that's like making a list of the most attractive women who aren't hot. How do you determine who was too good offensively to be on the stay at home list?

[bucko 0]

well maybe put stevens there for lidstrom

[mack 44]

An intangible factor to me is asking if the player is what the team needed and asked of the player. Lidstrom has been able to carry a team's offence on the blueline but also has been able to go to a shutdown role when needed. Well, except for when he was assigned to Iginla a couple years ago. Someone like Niedermayer spent years in a defencive system where points were a bonus. Sure, he could have put up Sega numbers on most other teams but he played to the team's system effectively and in the end it made him even better. You can't just have a list like this (or any other list) on stats alone because they can be misleading. Kevin Hatcher had great offencive numbers but was a liability that negated the value of said points.

[-brady2 0]

And if not ten, then he should easily make your top 15 list. I don't even care for Detroit and the plethora of bandwagon fans in this state, and there's still no way I wouldn't argue Lidstrom in the top 15.

He put him at 11.

I don't get the 'honorable mention' thing either when he's already on the list though.

yeah, i did an edit after i posted it, forgot to take tha out

^ Fail. Lidstrom is without question one of the top 10 of all-time.

validate this.

[chippa13 1844]

Validate that Lidstrom is one of the top 10 all-time defensemen? Is that a serious question?