Some Thoughts on Skate Marketing

[JJStripes 1]

Now we are starting to get back on track.

[rmnyi 0]

I do not work in the industry, I am just a consumer and this site has helped me greatly. As a consumer, I don't really care what pro players wears my skates. I purchased skates for my daughter and she doesn't care either. In fact, if you asked her what skates Crosby wears, I'm sure she doesn't know. Bottom line is the fit. For me, nothing fits like a Graf. My daughter has worn Mission & Bauer and prefers Bauer. Bottom line is, the more choices I have as a consumer, the better.

I think Graf is the best at offering choice in the fit of the boot. I'm not going to argue about the technology side of skates because I don't know enough about it but if the skate doesn't fit right, the rest doesn't matter to me.

[Rustpot 1]

I think part of what it comes down to for Graf is people not wanting to pay $400 for a pair of skates that look like their grandpa would have used.

I see a skate like Graf in my LHS. It has a big price tag, a plain box, a plain look, not much else.

I see the One90 on the wall, it has a whole display highlighting how each feature is going to improve comfort, response, power transfer, etc.

I say to myself "Do I want a skate that fits well for $400, or do I want the latest in space age technology to propel my game to the next level, help my weak stride and take less efficiency away for $400, still getting that same fit (assuming the One90 and a model from Graf both fit)?"

No brainer. It's the same thing with everything in today's world.

The Graf thought is that the Pentium 200MHz should still command a $1200 price tag, competing with today's dual-core 5GHz, LCD mega-PCs that you can get for $1200. It still works, it won't crash, it built robustly for the long haul and on proven technology that will last 10 years of use. Sure the new computers have brushed aluminum, flat black and contrasting LED lighting, but that beige system will run Windows '95 and be damn good at it.

At least that's how I see things, being a consumer in the hockey world.

[bucko 0]

so you´d rather drink the beer that comes in the super space technology nasa approved bottle than the one that tastes better or what??? :lol:

[Rustpot 1]

I thought my computer analogy was sufficient...

Beer is not about technology. I hate Coors light, and they're the ones with all the innovative "blue mountains" bottle, double liner can, insulated 12pack case, etc.

[Gummer12 134]

Honestly, I would have considered Grafs my next go around in skates. But since Tyler joined the forum he has changed my mind for good. All I hear from anyone that has ever worked at graf is cockiness and penis-envy from all the larger manufacters. Mix that in with who-gives-a-damn customer service and you have a company that PROVES they don't deserve my money or anyone elses.

I Too WAS going give the graf 709/G9 a shot in my next skate purchase while spending my Economic Stimulus Package, but now i'm not going to even make the shop keep take them out of the box. I've always read the arrogance of graf and the horror stories of cust serv....and i was still willing to shrug it off and at very least try some on.... but this just puts the nail in the coffin, and i won't feel bad cuz i know this guys feelings won't be hurt, and he'll have more than one less skate to build. I would be embarrassed to have an employee such as this guy bringing my company name further down than what it already is...but, that may be their marketing strategy?

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

Does this qualify for marketing? Must've missed the part where they slipped the McGill kids $50 for beer money.

I've actually seen the longer video when I was in St-Jerome. It is really cool shit.

The fact of the matter is that NBH/Bauer has explored all of the options on making a truly high-performance skate, and in turn, have the lion's share in the NHL as well as retail - pretty good ROI. Graf is a niche product, plain and simple. It's a good skate that has a loyal following. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. As far as everything else said in the thread, well, I guess it's just their MO. And based with my dealings with said company, I cannot say that it surprises me.

[chippa13 1844]

Definitely.

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

But the thing is, and I'm sure hockeymom will chime in - marketing shouldn't be a dirty word.

At the end of the day, you're selling a product. And you must market said product. It really doesn't get much simpler than that.

[chippa13 1844]

Marketing is simple in my book, get word out about your product and generate interest. If that is through the new viral marketing of the internet with Youtube and such, so be it. Every company has access to these avenues, personally, I don't begrudge anyone for being smart enough to take advantage of it.

[bucko 0]

I thought my computer analogy was sufficient...

Beer is not about technology. I hate Coors light, and they're the ones with all the innovative "blue mountains" bottle, double liner can, insulated 12pack case, etc.

i was just kidding man :D

for me skating by it self has more to do with skills than technology, sure the top of the line skates are stiffer, lighter, they dry faster after games and they sure can support your game more than skates 10 years back, but for me bauer could´ve stopped innovating with the vapor 10´s im skating in, they are simply perfect skates, for me. and that is the point, it is all individual preference. i don´t mind about stupid answers from a graf rep, and i dont mind the commercials, or the endorsment contracts of player a or b, i go with the gear that works best for me. but as we all know it is the base, the kids who want to play and look exactly like the pros, and for this range of age commercials are the recipe! not the fit, the quality or the dealer behaviour, its the looks and the feeling to wear the same gear your idol skates in. so why to repaint a ops, why to do bauer s9`s or iginla ccm one90´s when the companie wont benefit?

so i guess graf should endorse a few popular players, after all we´ve read here :D

[Rustpot 1]

I don't begrudge anyone for being smart enough to take advantage of it.

I guess the rest of this thread makes it apparent that not everyone is as smart as you.

My already low opinion of Graf as a company has fallen even lower after reading how one of their employees acts when it comes to talking about other companies.

Edit-

Bucko, I got ya. I agree mostly. I do think that the actions taken and words spoken do, in fact, sway business. I'd rather buy a skate from a guy with a smile on his face for $10 more than be left alone in a shop and have to hunt someone down to get rung up.

Hockey is about personality to me. Fit comes first, but if I find two pairs of skates from two companies that both fit well and are priced similarly, you can bet experiences like the one in this thread will sway my decision to NOT go with Graf, even if it means paying a bit more and making a trade off somewhere in the skate.

[rmnyi 0]

wex12,

Spend your money however you wish. If it were me, I would try on everything I could. I also think the pissing contest that occurred in this thread is totally ridiculous and nothing of any value was stated that would keep my away from any brand of skate.

[TBLfan 25]

Like I said using marketing is 4th grade economics. Basic stuff, if you don't market things you aren't going to sell much product.

Why does a one90 skate have a stand that mentions 100 features(obviously exaggerating)? Because NBH shelled out the money to R&D those features and they want to show you why they're different. You ask anyone that doesn't know about skates and you get: "This one looks cool, this one is ugly, this one looks better." You don't get "Look at the thermoformable footbed, look at the flexible tendon guard, look at the longer than previous runners, look at the lace lock" you get the point. If you don't advertise(see marketing) then how is the every day customer going to know what makes your product different?

[chippa13 1844]

One could hope that the consumer just divines the advantages of your product.

[Rustpot 1]

One could hope that the consumer just divines the advantages of your product.

I could see it now, parents fitting their kids for the first time walking through the LHS with their eyes closed, holding a Y-shaped stick :lol:

[chippa13 1844]

As a Patriots fan, that would have made this year's Super Bowl really suck. It was bad enough that they got beat by the Giants, but to lose the ads would have been too much.

[TBLfan 25]

The Super Bowl pregame is proof that marketing can hurt. I refuse to see "Jumper" after watching the red carpet antics. In fact I will illegally download it then delete it to spite them. No, I'm not serious about that part.

[chippa13 1844]

One could hope that the consumer just divines the advantages of your product.

I could see it now, parents fitting their kids for the first time walking through the LHS with their eyes closed, holding a Y-shaped stick :lol:

I like to envision a Magic 8 Ball:

"Should we buy little Billy Vapor XXXX's?" (Shake, shake, shake)

[Not Sure]

"Dammit!"

[bucko 0]

@rustpot: absolutely agree!

fortunately grafs wont fit my feet, so this whole discussion is no emotional thing for me... but all in all i think we got the point though, marketing strategics are necessary if you want to sell your products, graf would do it as well if they had the money. innovations mostly come from the big companies, and mature customers buy by fit first.

so everything´s fine, isn´t it? :D

[Slava 0]

interesting read in this thread

[mrusse01 0]

I think you guys were pretty rough on the Graf dude.

He doesn't like how much marketing drives the hockey industry (in his opinion). Is that such a ridiculous stance to take? Have you ever actually visited a company website looking to get technical information about a skate? It's damn near impossible (Graf included). This website this year neglected to give out it's annual 'Most Innovative Product' award because nobody could think of anything innovative enough to warrant it. And even where there is significant tech improvements (eg. One90 skate), do you think it is the new technology selling the majority of skates, or the massive ad campaigns? I would suspect Tyler would argue that it is the latter, and frankly I don't think he would be that far off base.

Just because the guy works for Graf and comes on here offering some criticism of the industry, I don't take it as him pushing his employers product over everyone else's.

[duch 0]

Hell, I'm not criticizing the Graf rep. I love Grafs products and have never had a major issue with them. No horror stories coming from this guy. I was only trying to figure out why Graf does things the way they do. No insult intended on the European market stageties. I'm just looking at the way they market their products objectively and reading between the lines to figure out why they do like they do. I'm originally from Europe and still carry a bit of the old school thinking. Something passed on from my Dad and Uncle. I'm still amazed more people don't buy Graf skates. Personally I don't care that they doen't have the glitsy looks and are a traditional looking skate. I know myself they perform on the ice and that's all I care about. But then, I'm older and have been around the block so I know what I need in a skate.

[srv2miker 0]

The funny thing is, marketing is what can help a small company grab a larger market share. Graf is like 75% of the way there. They've got a competitive advantage (multiple foot molds) and a distinct marketing message (the Science of Skating), they just seem to prefer not to tell anyone. Whether it's POP displays, online marketing, ads etc. it's all second rate compared to the competition. And I just don't mean in media buys, I mean the actual quality - it's not near good enough.

[GrafPro55 0]

I think you guys were pretty rough on the Graf dude.

He doesn't like how much marketing drives the hockey industry (in his opinion). Is that such a ridiculous stance to take? Have you ever actually visited a company website looking to get technical information about a skate? It's damn near impossible (Graf included). This website this year neglected to give out it's annual 'Most Innovative Product' award because nobody could think of anything innovative enough to warrant it. And even where there is significant tech improvements (eg. One90 skate), do you think it is the new technology selling the majority of skates, or the massive ad campaigns? I would suspect Tyler would argue that it is the latter, and frankly I don't think he would be that far off base.

Just because the guy works for Graf and comes on here offering some criticism of the industry, I don't take it as him pushing his employers product over everyone else's.

Thank you. That is all I needed. Thank you to all the people who don't mind that I have an opinion, no matter what I do for a living.

Thanks as well to the guys sending Graf e-mails telling them to fire me. Very mature.