Blackstone Flat-Bottom V Thread

[MThockeydad 469]

I like 100/50 and did not like going to 9/16 from it. I'm currently on 1/2" until I get my other steel back with 100/50.

[lpgbackups 17]

i noticed something on sharpening videos..most people hold the tri-holder while sharpening.....am i the only one who actually holds the boot of my skate ?

[angeles 4]

Since my name was thrown out there:

95/75 will feel more like 1/2" ROH than 90/75. I used to use 5/8 or 3/4 and I feel more comfortable on 90/75.

Thanks Chadd,

That helps me from searching this thread for the answer.

I'll get the 100/50, then purchase the 95/75 and the 90/75 with some wheels for my second order. That way I can try them out and see which one is best for me.

[notquitedeadyet 13]

i noticed something on sharpening videos..most people hold the tri-holder while sharpening.....am i the only one who actually holds the boot of my skate ?

That's a huge no-no.

There's no chance that you hold the boot completely level thru each pass. And it's especially critical with fb sharpening.

[MatthewRoach7 130]

Quick question. I had a pair of my skates done at with a flat bottom V when I was at SummerJam. The local shops do not offer the FBV sharpening. When (if anything) do i need to have the rink do to go back to a "normal" sharpening?

[benson 8]

I've been looking at the portable/home use skate sharpeners again, and reading the older threads here. I figured I'd post a quick question asking what everything thinks of the various makes/models out there. Guys that do their own sharpening, do you think it saves you time/money? Do you feel like you get as good or better sharpening doing it yourself? Did it take long to pick it up, and learn the tricks?

The models I'm looking at are the Blackstone X-01, Blademaster SPB850, and Wissota 911. They are all about the same price. Blackstone has a bunch of spinners for various ROH and FBV, but you only get one with it (I'd need at least two, probably several more for trying out FBV and other hollows as I like to do). Blademaster and Wissota come standard with the quill for setting and changing the ROH. Blademaster has a form dresser available and then dressing rolls for ROH and their version of FBV, but that seems like a spendy upgrade to get. Wissota has a universal adapter for spinners available also.

So that seems to be what I know, and it seems to me that Blackstone is the cheapest/easiest way to get into trying it myself, but the spinners would add up. Blademaster seems to be the best as many people have pointed out that college teams and whatnot use them for travel, and they are very well made, but if I want their form dresser system it would get really spendy. Wissota is local to me, and seems to be well made as well, but less popular around here due to their older models being more difficult to use, and again, if I want the spinner system, it could get spendy.

What does everyone think? My primary use would be for myself (play 2-3 times a week in 2 beer leagues) and my son (7, plays mites so he's out 2-3 times a week). Presently, my son and I use our LHS for sharpening, myself in a 5/8" ROH (I also like 3/4" in the summer), my son in 1/2". Secondary would be my wife's skates, and my younger son's, neither of which skate very often. Potential future use would be my team or son's teams skates if they want to try FBV or whatever I'm using.

Anything I'm missing? Anything I should think about? Thanks for your help!

[AfftonDad 88]

When using the black marker trick on runners that I didn't sharpen the last time (I always do the marker thing when I'm doing a pair that wasn't done by me the last time or when changing hollows) and when putting an FBV hollow on them, I have come to associate the black line gradually becoming narrower and narrower with each pass as the previous hollow being an ROH hollow. On the other hand, when I do it on a previous (good) FBV sharpening I'll generally see either the edges OR the flat are removed relatively quickly followed by the other part being removed relatively quickly. Would you guys agree that my observation is correct? The reason I ask is that I am routinely quite surprised when someone gives me a pair of skates that they swear had FBV on them and I observe the slow gradual reduction of the line towards the middle of the runner. Is it possible that these people are being TOLD they are getting FBV when in fact they are getting ROH. Or do you think it is more likely that the person just isn't dressing the wheel enough to get rid of the old hollow?

Quick question. I had a pair of my skates done at with a flat bottom V when I was at SummerJam. The local shops do not offer the FBV sharpening. When (if anything) do i need to have the rink do to go back to a "normal" sharpening?

Nothing... They just need to make sure they completely get rid of the old hollow. If you have any nicks, they will almost assuredly have to go deep enough to get rid of the nicks that they will also be completely getting rid of the old hollow. Taking off TOO LITTLE steel is not generally a problem that I see happening when I see skates sharpened.

[MThockeydad 469]

Quick question. I had a pair of my skates done at with a flat bottom V when I was at SummerJam. The local shops do not offer the FBV sharpening. When (if anything) do i need to have the rink do to go back to a "normal" sharpening?

I had NoIcing do my steel with 100/50 and loved it. I bought one set of Step Steel from "jimmy" last winter and he profiled and sharpened it for me. I typically play 1 adult league game, 1 dropin, and coach 3 nights a week. One sharpening on the Step lasts me about a month. Seems like I can go about 3 weeks on Bauer steel.

NoIcing has good turnaround, but I'm too cheap to want to pay shipping each way for one set, so I found a local guy to do mine. He plays in a different league, so it's almost impossible to get a quick turnaround from him, so I put my dull steel on a spare set of holders and give them to him for a week or two until I see him again.

I also sharpen on the Wissota at my local association's rink. A month ago, he was busy and I shorted myself too little time to send my steel to NoIcing and ground off my 100/50 and did 9/16". I hated it. Great glide, but too little grip.

I then went to 1/2" and found it to be decent. The grip I was used to, but glide suffered.

To answer your question, OP, if I have no dings, I can probably sharpen my steel in about 4-6 passes. Grinding out the FBV and leaving them sharp took probably 8-10 passes (so just less than the amount ground in two sharpenings).

Don't get hooked on FBV unless you have a source to get your steel sharpened as available as the radius you can get at your local shop!

What does everyone think? My primary use would be for myself (play 2-3 times a week in 2 beer leagues) and my son (7, plays mites so he's out 2-3 times a week). Presently, my son and I use our LHS for sharpening, myself in a 5/8" ROH (I also like 3/4" in the summer), my son in 1/2". Secondary would be my wife's skates, and my younger son's, neither of which skate very often. Potential future use would be my team or son's teams skates if they want to try FBV or whatever I'm using.

Anything I'm missing? Anything I should think about? Thanks for your help!

I have a super available Wissota at my local rink. I would much rather do it myself than the local sporting goods store. Sometimes they're sharpened very well by the gray old pro who has sharpened skis and skates for 30 years; sometimes poorly by the part-time college kid who sweeps floors to get lift ticket money.

If it's the same pro sharpening your skates every time, then no, it probably doesn't save you time or money or get you a better job.

If local sharpening availability is poor, or skill is spotty, or you really want a cut that isn't available locally, or your family represents a lot of volume, (or really any one of the four), then do your own.

I plan to buy or build a spinner adapter for FBV on my local rink's Wissota.

As for learning, I worked my way through a couple of racks of rental skates before I did my own or my kids'. Rental skates step on concrete and aluminum door thresholds and get knocked together so much that even a so-so sharpening is an improvement! :) Once I could get consistently sharp edges and level front, center, and back, I felt OK to sharpen mine and my kids'. Then when I could skate on mine and my kids were happy, I started sharpening the customer skates (see, you never know who you will get!).

When I sharpened skates for visiting Canadian teams and people at the local Pond Hockey Classic and those skilled skaters were happy, it was a point that I had figured it out. :)

[wrangler 157]

Blademaster has a form dresser available and then dressing rolls for ROH and their version of FBV, but that seems like a spendy upgrade to get. Wissota has a universal adapter for spinners available also.

Blademaster uses "BFD". There's enough confusion out there, some of it deliberate, that I'd avoid calling it "their version of FBV".

[benson 8]

Blademaster uses "BFD". There's enough confusion out there, some of it deliberate, that I'd avoid calling it "their version of FBV".

Sorry, I really just was going on an assumption that since it was a similar sharpening style, and from what I can gather, came out after FBV I just called it that. I'll refrain from doing so in the future.

[mnpucker 33]

I've been looking at the portable/home use skate sharpeners again, and reading the older threads here. I figured I'd post a quick question asking what everything thinks of the various makes/models out there. Guys that do their own sharpening, do you think it saves you time/money? Do you feel like you get as good or better sharpening doing it yourself? Did it take long to pick it up, and learn the tricks?

The models I'm looking at are the Blackstone X-01, Blademaster SPB850, and Wissota 911. They are all about the same price. Blackstone has a bunch of spinners for various ROH and FBV, but you only get one with it (I'd need at least two, probably several more for trying out FBV and other hollows as I like to do). Blademaster and Wissota come standard with the quill for setting and changing the ROH. Blademaster has a form dresser available and then dressing rolls for ROH and their version of FBV, but that seems like a spendy upgrade to get. Wissota has a universal adapter for spinners available also.

So that seems to be what I know, and it seems to me that Blackstone is the cheapest/easiest way to get into trying it myself, but the spinners would add up. Blademaster seems to be the best as many people have pointed out that college teams and whatnot use them for travel, and they are very well made, but if I want their form dresser system it would get really spendy. Wissota is local to me, and seems to be well made as well, but less popular around here due to their older models being more difficult to use, and again, if I want the spinner system, it could get spendy.

What does everyone think? My primary use would be for myself (play 2-3 times a week in 2 beer leagues) and my son (7, plays mites so he's out 2-3 times a week). Presently, my son and I use our LHS for sharpening, myself in a 5/8" ROH (I also like 3/4" in the summer), my son in 1/2". Secondary would be my wife's skates, and my younger son's, neither of which skate very often. Potential future use would be my team or son's teams skates if they want to try FBV or whatever I'm using.

Anything I'm missing? Anything I should think about? Thanks for your help!

Previous POST for your review.......

A quick sharpening story. I own a Xo2, might have one of the first ones out, I am a Blackstone FBV thread viewer since page 1! Anyway through the years I respond to people about the positives about owning a sharpener vs taking to a pro shop. The reasons are plenty.

Recently I was reminded of maybe the most important reason....accuracy. I am somewhat of a perfectionist when it comes to gear (hockey or fishing).

I bought a sharpener and became pretty good at it. I never let a pair of skates leave my sharpening table without absolute level edges. I live in Minnesota, we have pro-shops on nearly every corner. On occasion I sharpen my boys teammates skates. I always do one thing prior to sharpening, check the edge for level.

I am always shocked at how out of level the edges are. The boys have their skates sharpened at very reputable shops in the area. I am not exaggerating when I say the edges are usually out of level by more than 3 marks on the BR edge checker. Sometimes off several bars from the back to the front of the same blade! The leveler sometimes is nearly vertical. Off level so bad I inspect for nicks in the blade or long scrapes.

I guess this is not necessarily a knock on the people that are profiting by sharpening skates, rather a warning for customers to be more vigilant. If I were to do this youth hockey thing all over again. The very least thing I would do is invest in an edge checker so I can keep my pro shop honest. If you want to do it right, by all means buy a sharpener as soon as you know your kids will be in it for the long haul....Keep in mind these things hold their value like nothing else. You will always get your money out of a sharpener. If you are considering it, just do it you will never regret the decision.

Edit for accuracy it was page 3 when I decided to buy a Blackstone funny thing about that is FBV is still considered new technology. Initially I was going to buy the X01 then changed my mind. This thing is 6 years old!! holy crap time flies. It looks and runs like it is brand new. I have probably sharpened 1000 pair of skates. I have used about 4 wheels and gone through 2-3 spinners. one thing I noticed, kids feet grow. I started out sharpening size 3-4 and now I am doing 9-10's. One friend of my kid has a 14......SKATE!!! takes half a stone to sharpen those things. Anyway Kudos to Blackstone, you make a great product.

I too am in Minnesota, my brother has a Wisota, quality product with limited flexibility. He has admitted he would much rather have the ability to shape the stone as FBV or ROH. My X02 has been flawless. I have landed on a hard ice FBV 100/75 and a soft ice FBV 100/50. I have NEVER used the ROH. Actually the last time my boys or I have skated ROH was 6 years ago right around page 3 of this thread.

Edited December 9, 2014 by mnpucker

[benson 8]

Previous POST for your review.......

I too am in Minnesota, my brother has a Wisota, quality product with limited flexibility. He has admitted he would much rather have the ability to shape the stone as FBV or ROH. My X02 has been flawless. I have landed on a hard ice FBV 100/75 and a soft ice FBV 100/50. I have NEVER used the ROH. Actually the last time my boys or I have skated ROH was 6 years ago right around page 3 of this thread.

Funny, I had read your post, it helped me out a bit and this whole thread has me leaning toward the X01. Thanks for the help!

[mnpucker 33]

Here is the next biggest advantage (sorry to you pro shop guys for this one) I can promise you I saved $1,000's in add on sales by not spending time in the pro shops awaiting my skates to be done.....Specifically when 9,10,11,12,13 year old kids looks at you and asks for the newest jersey, t shirt hat, jacket, mini stick, knee hockey net etc.... Cha Ching !

[pizzakid13 5]

so i got to try out my 2nd FBV sharpening last night and the left skate was off. it didnt have much grip from mid blade to heel. balls of feet seemed ok.

standing still on the ice, my left foot could slide out to the left without really putting any weight on it. so any fast, straight ahead starts were slippery to say the least. turns were ok but there was a huge difference from what i had before this sharpening. so i got by but i want to get it fixed.

this is Total Hockey in Exton PA. since i am not an expert, i assume i should always have the levels checked? i didnt do that since the first cut was great. different guy this time tho.

is there anything else to look for? will a skate stay vertical on a flat surface if the levels are right?

[mnpucker 33]

Just my opinion but I believe edge level to be more critical with FBV than ROH. Just ask the sharpener to show you the edge level on the front and rear of the blade prior to accepting them OR by an edge checker yourself.

[MThockeydad 469]

I am always shocked at how out of level the edges are. The boys have their skates sharpened at very reputable shops in the area. I am not exaggerating when I say the edges are usually out of level by more than 3 marks on the BR edge checker. Sometimes off several bars from the back to the front of the same blade! The leveler sometimes is nearly vertical. Off level so bad I inspect for nicks in the blade or long scrapes.

I guess this is not necessarily a knock on the people that are profiting by sharpening skates, rather a warning for customers to be more vigilant. If I were to do this youth hockey thing all over again. The very least thing I would do is invest in an edge checker so I can keep my pro shop honest.

If the tri holder is out of level, every single set of skates will be off from front to back, no matter how good you dress or adjust from edge to edge.

This can happen easily if the tri-holder is dropped by one employee and the others don't know it.

If they spot-check only the center of the blade, they may not notice if there's runout on the toe and heel.

Edge level is definitely more critical with FBV than ROH. You can't just tilt the tri-holder to get the center of a radius to hit the center of the blade edge (even if the skate is not level!); you have to be at exactly the right height off the table with the dresser and center of blade while held level.

[pizzakid13 5]

Just my opinion but I believe edge level to be more critical with FBV than ROH. Just ask the sharpener to show you the edge level on the front and rear of the blade prior to accepting them OR by an edge checker yourself.

I'll do it tomorrow.

[wrangler 157]

Sorry, I really just was going on an assumption that since it was a similar sharpening style, and from what I can gather, came out after FBV I just called it that. I'll refrain from doing so in the future.

No sweat. I didn't know what you'd been told by your LHS; some of them that do BFD have misinformed on these sharpenings, and people have unknowingly not got what they asked for.

[lpgbackups 17]

okay...i wont be holding the boot of my skate when sharpening...especially since JR liked the post that corrected me!

im about to purchase a few spinners for christmas, im interested in the 100/50 and 95/75 range, .and i know they added new spinners that previously didnt existed...does anyone know where i can find the guide that ranks the spinners in terms of bite?
.i remember it was posted somewhere but i cant find it easily in this thread or on blackstone's site. thanks guys

Merry hockey playing

[benson 8]

I am still a little torn. I am between the X01 and Wissota with the Universal Dresser. The Blademaster would just be too much money to get into with the form dresser. Though if I only wanted ROH, it would be great. I've talked to a guy at Wissota and I am kind of leaning that way now particularly because I can go pick it up and they'll show me the ins, outs, and what-have-yous.

[AfftonDad 88]

Just curious... Does the Wissota Universal Dresser accept full size or mini spinners?

Edited December 11, 2014 by AfftonDad

[MThockeydad 469]

This one?

[benson 8]

Just curious... Does the Wissota Universal Dresser accept full size or mini spinners?

The guy at Wissota told me full size, which is one reason I am leaning toward it.

[notquitedeadyet 13]

I have much experience both machines, & I can promise you hands down that the Wissota is by far the better choice.

I'd bet that universal dresser would work with the Blademaster too, but the deal breaker would probably be the skate holder.

[benson 8]

I have much experience both machines, & I can promise you hands down that the Wissota is by far the better choice.

I'd bet that universal dresser would work with the Blademaster too, but the deal breaker would probably be the skate holder.

How so? Which skate holder is better? Thank you for the feedback!