Blackstone Flat-Bottom V Thread

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

It was the sharpener that was doing them at the time.

He was saying to me that his eye was more dependable than the square, then showed me how the square read level, but he knew better. Then started making all kinds of adjustments to the tri-lie based on that. When I questioned his methodology...well, he got a little testy, particularly when I asked him to go by the square rather than his magic eye.

I get the part about if the square getting damaged, that it could give you an incorrect reading...I just couldn't imagine being able to see it with the naked eye.

Thanks

Sorry to hear about that I will PM you!.

[scorer75 9]

Just wanted to follow-up as per my previous post.

I skated last night on the FBV for the first time, I'm never going back.

For those who haven't tried it, my impression was that this is just better. It's not a mind blowing better, just definitely better.

[forbs02 20]

Alright, well I'm finally curious enough to give up sharpening my own to try this new fangeled sharpening out, does anyone know somewhere in the twin cities that runs a FBV set up yet? Hell at this point I'm considering picking up a spare set of steel to mail out to.... somewhere... to try it out.

Dave's up in Fridley is the only location I know of. They only have the 90/75 and 100/75 spinners.

Hockeygiant will be set up within the month... but their sharpening people aren't as good as Dave's.

[cbart 1]

Alright, well I'm finally curious enough to give up sharpening my own to try this new fangeled sharpening out, does anyone know somewhere in the twin cities that runs a FBV set up yet? Hell at this point I'm considering picking up a spare set of steel to mail out to.... somewhere... to try it out.

Dave's up in Fridley is the only location I know of. They only have the 90/75 and 100/75 spinners.

Hockeygiant will be set up within the month... but their sharpening people aren't as good as Dave's.

I've been bugging Dave's to get the 100/50..."Blackstone is out of them" was the reply...Damn!

[Chadd 916]

I've been finding that most of the guys I put into the FBV prefer the 100/75. They're all coming from 1/2 and the ice is pretty hard right now thanks to the extended winter we're getting.

[SolarWind 23]

after trying FBV for several hours I agree with what many said - really nice, but not mind blowing

I went with 100/50 - the bite is about the same as 5/8

the problem that I have (which was echoed by a few people here - Chadd for instance) is that the edges definitely don't hold up as well the regular circular hollow...

since the glide is quite nice I might try 100/75 - why not get the best of both worlds (glide + bite), plus maybe I wouldn't need to sharpen that often with a bit deeper hollow

[DEATHTRON 19]

I've been finding that most of the guys I put into the FBV prefer the 100/75. They're all coming from 1/2 and the ice is pretty hard right now thanks to the extended winter we're getting.

but....global warming!

Im still on my first FBV sharpening, about a month old now. They are pretty much at the point where I am noticing that they need to be sharpened. I have close to 20 skates for the month on them, so they have held up plenty good for me so far.

Zach

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

after trying FBV for several hours I agree with what many said - really nice, but not mind blowing

I went with 100/50 - the bite is about the same as 5/8

the problem that I have (which was echoed by a few people here - Chadd for instance) is that the edges definitely don't hold up as well the regular circular hollow...

since the glide is quite nice I might try 100/75 - why not get the best of both worlds (glide + bite), plus maybe I wouldn't need to sharpen that often with a bit deeper hollow

If you had the FBV put on from a regular sharpening on the previous time it will not last longer. The second FBV will.

Or you can try a slight cross grind on the skating surface and then sharpen works wonders!

[SolarWind 23]

If you had the FBV put on from a regular sharpening on the previous time it will not last longer. The second FBV will.

Or you can try a slight cross grind on the skating surface and then sharpen works wonders!

this might very well be the case - I have heard it before (and it was already mentioned in this thread) that the first sharpenning over the old circular hollow isn't that great...

good point - I'll try 100/50 for the second time & see where it takes me...

[chiefs17 2]

Question for the sharpeners out there. Has anyone had trouble with the 100/75? What I'm saying is, I can get even edges according to the Bat Gage, but when I skate, the edge feels good in some spots, and dull in others. I'm also dealing with steel that measures about .110" thick, with a .100" flat on the FBV, that only gives me .005" on either edge. There's not a lot of room for error. I would imagine that if the steel is tweaked even the slightest bit, that could wipe out the edge in that spot, maybe that's what I'm feeling.

Thanks for the help.

[krwwc6 0]

Well I finally skated with FBV last night. I normally skate on 7/8 or 15/16. The glide was improved a bit, not to noticable, but the bite I got was drastically improved, which allowed for better push offs and turning. I'm a believer. . . .

[Chadd 916]

Question for the sharpeners out there. Has anyone had trouble with the 100/75?

Haven't had any problems, and I've put it on LS2, Custom+, E-pro and Pitch.

[Ahriman 1]

I need a new pair of rocket runners for my skates so I'm using it as an excuse to drive up and get a FBV cut done today, I'm gitty like a school girl :P

[GKC 0]

Hi guy's...

Just found this thread. I can't believe how many pages there are!

We just got our new machine about two weeks ago, and I can't believe how many people already know about FBV.

People are driving from quite far away to get their skates done. I'm floored! I guess word travels fast.

I've been on the 90/75 since we got the machine, what a difference. The glide is unbelieveable. the bite isn't quite as sharp as the 1/2" I came from, but I haven't yet lost an edge. I'll try the 100/50 later this week and see how that works. I'd like just a bit more bite than the 90/75.

I am curious if anyone has seen any difference in smaller kids? I put my 8yr old on it and he says it's awesome, how objective that is we will have to see.

Have to say that dealing with Steve from Blackstone has been a great expierence. Great service, and a really awesome piece of machinery. Now if I could just convince him not to sell anymore machines in my area.....

Thanks,

G

[Jordan 13]

I am curious if anyone has seen any difference in smaller kids? I put my 8yr old on it and he says it's awesome, how objective that is we will have to see.

My 8 (almost 9) year old has been on it for a few months. He skates on the 90/75..and I would say that there is an observable difference in speed. Players who he was neck and neck with on his team, he now beats consistently in races.

[Ivan 1]

Well I finally skated with FBV last night. I normally skate on 7/8 or 15/16. The glide was improved a bit, not to noticable, but the bite I got was drastically improved, which allowed for better push offs and turning. I'm a believer. . . .

You just wait... I mean skate. In other words, give it some time

[pmspaul 0]

I am curious if anyone has seen any difference in smaller kids? I put my 8yr old on it and he says it's awesome, how objective that is we will have to see.

Have to say that dealing with Steve from Blackstone has been a great expierence. Great service, and a really awesome piece of machinery. Now if I could just convince him not to sell anymore machines in my area.....

Thanks,

G

I have my son and 3 of his mini-mite team mates skating on the 90/75. I didn't tell any of the kids anything about the sharpening being different. Myself and the other coaches notice them carrying more speed during drills and games. These kids are 4,5 and 6. When I put my 5 yr old on it, he jumped on the ice, wiped out, skated a lap, came back and said his skates felt more slippery.

Steve is fantastic to deal with. Oh and FYI, Steve told me the 100/50 mini spinner is shipping now. Mine should be on it's way here now. I expect this to be the bite I'm looking for. Can't wait to try it.

-Paul

[goodguy 7]

Got my sons skates FBV'd today 90/75.

Got a little training on the machine (not hands on of course) and the spinner concept looks like an amazing innovation. Pretty foolproof compared to the old way. Sharpener said he has had no complaints and only good reviews of the FBV.

Feeling the blade after sharpening, it felt flatter (like a goalie skate) but still very sharp whcih I knew would be that case but it wa interesting. Wasn't as dramatic a feel difference with the finger as I thought (but hell it is the skating that matters not my stupid finger) Gentleman said his FBV users are getting more time between sharpenings also.

From what I could gather, if FBV "takes the market by storm" it looks like Blackstone could have a corner on the market.

Will report back as to how he likes them tomorrow.

Taking him to the new Puckmasters training center in the next few minutes to get some ice time with them and see if he falls on his ass or skates like the wind.

UPDATE: OK, got some good results from the FBV. Unfortunately puckmasters only has 1/4 ice and it is pretty rough as I dont think they zam it but one or twice a day - it was like pond hockey grade.

Anyway, as far as edges and movement, I could see no negative - in fact it looke dlike he was more agile on on the FBV sharpening than a regular one (hard to tell).

Well the initial test was good but we will se when he jump on the real (just zam'ed) ice for his 10:00 playoff game tomorrow. From how he was skating tonight, I think he will be fine.

BTW, he was dying to try the synthetic ice sheet next to the real ice and I said "no way" as I didn't know if the stuff would dull the sharpening I ran all over to get. But I let him try it anyway for a few - like skating through sludge. The EBV seemed to be as sharp as ever.

UPDATE #2:

Ok, I know I am going to get bitch-slapped by you guys but here goes.

After my inital test of the FBV 90/75 (albeit on unzambonied ice) - it appeared to be fine and my son "seemed" to skate normally.

So the next day, he has a game (pretty impotant one in fact) in which he proceeds to fall down about once per shift. He was pissed and it caused a bit of a problem becuase he would slip on transitions and while falling have to trip the opposing player to prevent a goal (can you say get in the box).

I immediately drove back to his regular LHS and went back to the 1/2" ROH.

NOW - hold on - I must say it is an intriguing concept and I plan to try it again this summer. But in a competitive situation you might want to wait unitl you have a free few weeks (which is never during the season) to really tweak it and find out what works.

Totally my fault for throwing in another variable without the correct amount of time to adjust.

While most say that the time to get used to FBV is very little. I would just have to say "be careful when you make the switch". Maybe it is part mental but for a player who is in their seasonal "groove" and not really having issues - it may throw them off a bit.

Maybe it was the 90/75 and should have tried a 100/75 but after the switch back to 1/2" ROH, he was skating great again.

I guess my conclusion is the slight increase in glide is a great thing but don't make the mistake of switching at a critical time like I did. My kid literally had to sit the third period because he was so inneffective in the game (which is not at all like him). Was it all the FBV - of course not but once you get it in your head that something is wrong with your blades - your whole game can be shot (mental or not).

Very promising but can anyone sugest a different setup than 90/75 considering the slip outs he was having.

Edited March 6, 2009 by goodguy

[Chadd 916]

A bunch of my guys switched in the middle of a playoff series and not a single one had a problem.

If he was used to half inch, 100/75 would probably be the better choice.

[pmspaul 0]

The 100/50 mini spinner arrived today from Blackstone. I emailed Steve to see when the 100/50 would become available on Monday, I have it at my house on Friday.

That's service.

I look forward to trying it this weekend.

[automorph 0]

not liking the feel is one thing.....but falling down and hindered ability to skate after switching to fbv is most likely poor skating technique

the switchover is not that much different from regular sharpening

[SolarWind 23]

Very promising but can anyone sugest a different setup than 90/75 considering the slip outs he was having.

if he was skating on 1/2 then 90/75 was definitely too shallow!

I skated on 5/8, and tried 100/50 (see my post above) - felt nice, but only for a short period of time

100/50 feels pretty much exactly like 5/8

I'd imagine 90/75 would feel like 3/4 (seems to be right if you look at bite angle in the spreadsheet from flatbottomv site)

but here's the kicker: I tried 100/75 - too much bite :(

so by the look of things I might have to either convert back, or be stuck with 100/50 & sharpenning once a week - NOT something I was really looking into since I used to sharpen only once in blue moon :(

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

A bunch of my guys switched in the middle of a playoff series and not a single one had a problem.

If he was used to half inch, 100/75 would probably be the better choice.

I have to concur with Chadd as I did one of the teams I am working with and didnt even tell them. Some of these players are going D1 next year and others are going Pro.

Now I did it the first time in a regular season didnt matter game and they won but only a couple guys said can i go sharper and or duller.

Now in the 3rd round of the playoffs and just knocking out the number 1 team they are all believers.

Not only was the team they knocked off first in the league but something like 8 th in the country.

Is it all the sharpening???? No there a well coached bunch of hard working players......but all of them including the 3 top players NEVER want to change after the season....

[JR Boucicaut 3793]

UPDATE: OK, got some good results from the FBV. Unfortunately puckmasters only has 1/4 ice and it is pretty rough as I dont think they zam it but one or twice a day - it was like pond hockey grade.

Ok, I know I am going to get bitch-slapped by you guys but here goes.

After my inital test of the FBV 90/75 (albeit on unzambonied ice) - it appeared to be fine and my son "seemed" to skate normally.

So the next day, he has a game (pretty impotant one in fact) in which he proceeds to fall down about once per shift. He was pissed and it caused a bit of a problem becuase he would slip on transitions and while falling have to trip the opposing player to prevent a goal (can you say get in the box).

When I was up there I noticed most kids skated on old or pond skates, not their game skates. Ponds do quite a bit of damage to your blades, synthetic ice isn't easy on them either, especially if it's "pond hockey grade." I used to sharpen a lot of Disney parade skaters and they always get 3/8" and deeper. That's why you see a lot of kids getting them done after they have treadmill sessions - it destroys the edges.

I strongly believe him blowing out on turns would've happened anyway, FBV OR standard hollow.

[Jordan 13]

For my son, the 100/75 didn't work out that great..okay but not the "wow" moment that I had imagined. For him 90/75 was the answer, and he skates incredibly well on it.

If your son was falling and losing his edge, I would not only try 100/75, but I would make sure that the job was level, and that all prior damage was removed. I would NOT give up on the FBV though.

as for adjustment period, I would say about 10 minutes is all it takes, so do it prior to a practice, not a game.