Interesting Article

[jds 20]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

From today's Globe and Mail.

[Rustpot 1]

Bullshit. They'd be stupid to make a single expansion team, stupid to give it to Balsillie, and dare I say stupid to put said team in Toronto.

The Leafs do well because of the tradition and love of hockey, a new team would not mean instant sales. Leaf Nation would not instantly adopt a second team.

Someone probably made the mention of adding a team and it snowballed to include "several members of the board" and a co-owner of the Flames who has "heard that", just as I'm sure he's heard talks of restoring the Whale or a team to Winnipeg.

[Law Goalie 147]

Toronto is not so great a hockey market as people believe... sure, there are hockey fans with plenty of disposable income, and a never-ending supply of season-ticket applicants no matter how stupid the price gets, but it's not like the entire GTA is in love with the sport. Put a team in the 905 area and it would die overnight. I've seen better crowds at OHL games in Kingston than at the ACC.

Part of the desire to see this happen is coming as a result of the unbelievable success of Toronto FC. In their first season, they'd planned to give tickets away to get people to show up; now they're sold out years in advance, and the crowds are absolutely amazing. Problem is, football is a growth sport in Canada, and especially in the GTA; hockey isn't.

Unless this new team can bring something totally new to the table, nobody will bother. They could try something like all outdoor home games, or setting the team up with a sort of lowlife aesthetic that included really cheap tickets and beer and lots of it to draw people in the door (in stark contrast to MLSE's established policy of 'charge the max for everything'), but I doubt it would last. You're not going to get Rangers/Celtic chemistry here...

[habsfan87 0]

it went from never accepting a team in sothern ontario to putting another team in toronto? I say screw that, if anything put it in another city, ie hamilton, kitchener/waterloo, something along those lines. And if it goes to a city that already has an AHL team that hopefully they can spread the wealth and give it to another city

[mrusse01 0]

Toronto is not so great a hockey market as people believe... sure, there are hockey fans with plenty of disposable income, and a never-ending supply of season-ticket applicants no matter how stupid the price gets, but it's not like the entire GTA is in love with the sport. Put a team in the 905 area and it would die overnight. I've seen better crowds at OHL games in Kingston than at the ACC.

I disagree. From a business standpoint, what more can you really ask of a hockey market than 'a never ending supply of season ticket applicants'? I agree crowds at the ACC are terrible, but I think that just means that the team has priced out real fans and all you are left with are suits talking business in the lower bowl. Couldn't a new team capitalize on that dynamic?

Any new Toronto team would be guranteed to sell out every home game for at minimum the first five years, and probably the first ten. If they had anyone with half a brain marketing the team as a more of a 'people's' team than the giant conglomerate known as The Toronto Maple Leafs, then I think it would be an enourmous success. The opportunity for a giant rivalry would be awesome.

[RadioGaGa 162]

Toronto is not so great a hockey market as people believe... sure, there are hockey fans with plenty of disposable income, and a never-ending supply of season-ticket applicants no matter how stupid the price gets, but it's not like the entire GTA is in love with the sport. Put a team in the 905 area and it would die overnight. I've seen better crowds at OHL games in Kingston than at the ACC.

Part of the desire to see this happen is coming as a result of the unbelievable success of Toronto FC. In their first season, they'd planned to give tickets away to get people to show up; now they're sold out years in advance, and the crowds are absolutely amazing. Problem is, football is a growth sport in Canada, and especially in the GTA; hockey isn't.

Unless this new team can bring something totally new to the table, nobody will bother. They could try something like all outdoor home games, or setting the team up with a sort of lowlife aesthetic that included really cheap tickets and beer and lots of it to draw people in the door (in stark contrast to MLSE's established policy of 'charge the max for everything'), but I doubt it would last. You're not going to get Rangers/Celtic chemistry here...

My arguement against a second team in Toronto has not changed in the 3-4 years this keeps coming up.

Toronto is not a hockey town...it's a Leafs Town. Team #2 will not do well....because it won't be the Leafs.

[McCabe#1 0]

People say that Toronto is not a hockey town because of the failure of the OHL and AHL and that they are a Leafs town, I believe that is incorrect.

Toronto is a Major Sports town, they don't accept anything but the best. Which is why Jr. and Minor league hockey hasn't worked. They would support another NHL team because it is the best there is.

Same reason Toronto would be able to sell out every home game for a NFL team, but not CFL. Toronto does not support minor league teams.

[Chadd 916]

My arguement against a second team in Toronto has not changed in the 3-4 years this keeps coming up.

Toronto is not a hockey town...it's a Leafs Town. Team #2 will not do well....because it won't be the Leafs.

Sure all of the season ticket holders will be leaf fans for the first couple years, but the new team would develop its own following. In the meantime, all of those people waiting for Leaf season tickets will sell out the new arena.

[Rustpot 1]

People say that Toronto is not a hockey town because of the failure of the OHL and AHL and that they are a Leafs town, I believe that is incorrect.

Toronto is a Major Sports town, they don't accept anything but the best. Which is why Jr. and Minor league hockey hasn't worked. They would support another NHL team because it is the best there is.

Same reason Toronto would be able to sell out every home game for a NFL team, but not CFL. Toronto does not support minor league teams.

But the Leafs haven't been an NHL team for the last few years.

And the Toronto Raptors haven't been packing them in consistently since their innagural season.

The NHL is not healthy enough to support 2 teams in one city. There's a waiting list for the Leafs, but they're an Original Six team, the pride of the city. To suddenly add a team is propostorous, you wouldn't get home-grown fans for a full generation. They'd need to have a second team included in the expansion to even the conferences out. The NHL is in NO position to expand. So they'd have to move Atlanta, Florida, LA, Phoenix or Nashville to Toronto, and we all know the league is going to fight tooth and nail to keep teams south of the Mason-Dixon under its current direction.

[Chadd 916]

The NHL is not healthy enough to support 2 teams in one city.

It's 13 miles from the Devils arena to the Rangers arena.

I would prefer to see a failed franchise relocated there than an expansion team.

[McCabe#1 0]

The Toronto Raptors have had excellent attendance since they started, and there were years fans had to try and watch them in the Skydome. I think they Raptors were in Top 5 or Top 10 in attendance last year.

[chef_ducky 0]

that's like the joke: why won't the NHL give Hamilton a team?

Because Toronto will want one two!

[D3nZ 0]

Worst idea ever, there is no need to have a second franchise in Toronto, period. Is the NHL trying to be the NBA (Clippers, Lakers)? Oh.. wait, they are. This is a huge joke.

[Aussie Joe 0]

Nice vid from the CBC here... http://www.cbc.ca/sports/ondemand

Click on the link for the story on the right hand side.

Interesting info about when Anaheim joined and the cheque that was sent to LA.

[jrhky36 1]

hey if tor fans want a winner this their only hope.

as far as 2 teams in one city look at ny/nj all 3 teams are supported.

as far as conjuctor goes why not 2 teams in det. we have 2 areans so each team has their own barn. maybee davidson could get another fanschise.

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

The fees that the new team would have to pay Ilitch would be astronomical.

[mrusse01 0]

hey if tor fans want a winner this their only hope.

as far as 2 teams in one city look at ny/nj all 3 teams are supported.

as far as conjuctor goes why not 2 teams in det. we have 2 areans so each team has their own barn. maybee davidson could get another fanschise.

Maybe when the Red Wings actually start selling out playoff games, then we can talk about another franchise there.

Franchise #2 in Toronto would easily be in the top half of the league in terms of revenue, and probably top 10 or top 5 without much trouble...I don't think anybody in the NHL would argue that fact.

The downside to putting another team here is that the league isn't really sure it would be 'in the best interests of the sport' from a long term perspective, which while a defensible stance, is one I happen to disagree with.

[Rustpot 1]

as far as 2 teams in one city look at ny/nj all 3 teams are supported.

Population density in NYC area is higher than anywhere else in the western hemisphere probably. We're not talking another team in Mississauga, Oshawa, or Hamilton which all have minor teams. NYR, NYI and NJD are close but they're not in the same city. Those teams also draw from the surrounding area which has quite a few million people.

How many million live in the GTA vs. NYC, north New Jersey and Long Island besides? Lets give Toronto 2 MLB and NBA teams, too, NY city alone supports theirs, right?

[Chadd 916]

as far as 2 teams in one city look at ny/nj all 3 teams are supported.

Population density in NYC area is higher than anywhere else in the western hemisphere probably. We're not talking another team in Mississauga, Oshawa, or Hamilton which all have minor teams. NYR, NYI and NJD are close but they're not in the same city. Those teams also draw from the surrounding area which has quite a few million people.

How many million live in the GTA vs. NYC, north New Jersey and Long Island besides? Lets give Toronto 2 MLB and NBA teams, too, NY city alone supports theirs, right?

Depends on how you measure it. For the purposes of this discussion the total metro population is slightly more than double in NYC. You also have to consider that the none of the hockey teams are in the top three in terms of popularity in the NYC area.

[li7039 0]

as far as 2 teams in one city look at ny/nj all 3 teams are supported.

Population density in NYC area is higher than anywhere else in the western hemisphere probably. We're not talking another team in Mississauga, Oshawa, or Hamilton which all have minor teams. NYR, NYI and NJD are close but they're not in the same city. Those teams also draw from the surrounding area which has quite a few million people.

How many million live in the GTA vs. NYC, north New Jersey and Long Island besides? Lets give Toronto 2 MLB and NBA teams, too, NY city alone supports theirs, right?

Depends on how you measure it. For the purposes of this discussion the total metro population is slightly more than double in NYC. You also have to consider that the none of the hockey teams are in the top three in terms of popularity in the NYC area.

NY goes like this

Yankees and Mets

Giants and Jets

Knicks

Rangers

Islanders/Devils

All over Long Island where i live you can find dirt cheep tickets to the isles and vouchers for free tickets at king kullen and such. The only thing i can see Toronto having over NYC in terms of another hockey team is the fact the people up by you actually like hockey. To find hockey here on t.v. or the local sports radio is rare.

[Jason Harris 31]

I believe Toronto's population would place it fourth in the US.

Also, the OMHA has 118K members, although I realize it's not all in Toronto, plus there's another youth association with around 60K. I only bring that up because someone suggested Toronto isn't a hockey town.