Leafs 08/09

[KryptOng 9]

just checked the standings and the leafs are back to 8th last, with the chance to drop as low as 6th with the kinds and sens all 1 point behind them, i have no doubt the canadiens will win it this saturday at home against the leafs, with the recent slide they're on they're due for a bounce back game with halak saving them.

i know we won't get tavares, but top 6 or even top 5 is better then where they are at now, i would like e. kane in a leafs jersey!

[mrusse01 0]

Not sure what you guys think of this but they were talking about Olie Kolzig on the telecast of the Caps/Lighting game just now.

First, Cujo said he's getting Olie a jersey made up, even if he never suits up for the leafs.

But somewhat more importantly, Locker was saying that Burke had a plan for Olie long term with the leafs. That him retiring after this season will open him for a coaching position with the leafs.

Carey Price credits Olie with some of his development. Kolzig was the goalie coach in 04/05 there during the lockout, when Price was the goalie there (Kolzig is part owner of the team)

Just thought I would throw that out for you guys, see what you thought of it.

Kolzig is a class act, in spite of how things ended here in DC

I'm pretty sure they parted with a goalie coach this season...McKitchen or something to that effect, I can't quite remember his name. I know Corey Hirsch is on the payroll in one role or another, but I would love to see Ollie come aboard, he has always come across as a class act in my opinion.

Toronto's financial advantage has been nullified somewhat because of the salary cap, but there is obviously no limit on management/coaching/scouting/training staff salaries, so I'm all for the Leafs bringing in anybody who they think can help.

just checked the standings and the leafs are back to 8th last, with the chance to drop as low as 6th with the kinds and sens all 1 point behind them, i have no doubt the canadiens will win it this saturday at home against the leafs, with the recent slide they're on they're due for a bounce back game with halak saving them.

i know we won't get tavares, but top 6 or even top 5 is better then where they are at now, i would like e. kane in a leafs jersey!

You gotta think they are eyeying Schenn's brother pretty hard at this point...the seem to be destined to land right in the 6-10 draft spot where he is projected to go.

Of course, there are always the rumors out there of Burke pulling a Ditka and trading a bunch of picks to get #1 overall.

[RiSeOnFiRe 0]

Trading a bunch of picks for the number one wont happen. For one, Burke is too smart to do something like that. And two, the leafs don't have the assets to pull something like that off. What would they give the Islanders or Tampa Bay that would be better for them than Tavares or Hedmen respectively? Not sure about TB, but the Isles already have a good amount of draft picks.

Im curious to the Schenn thing, would the leafs pass up on a possible Paajarvi if hes still on the board to take Luke's brother?

[Law Goalie 147]

Paajarvi's not quite the hot-ticket item some were projecting... he seems to be all tools and no toolbox. Kind of got the Pavel Brendl, Enver Lisin syndrome going.

I'm pretty sure they parted with a goalie coach this season...McKitchen or something to that effect, I can't quite remember his name. I know Corey Hirsch is on the payroll in one role or another, but I would love to see Ollie come aboard, he has always come across as a class act in my opinion.

Toronto's financial advantage has been nullified somewhat because of the salary cap, but there is obviously no limit on management/coaching/scouting/training staff salaries, so I'm all for the Leafs bringing in anybody who they think can help.

Steve McKichan. Hirschey's is probably not going to be around long - the Leafs' goalie decisions since Keeks left have been questionable at best. Would not be at all surprised to see Kolzig taken on as a player/coach, if that's actually possible under the cap system; otherwise, he'll probably have a year or two of light duty with the Marlies and full access to the Leafs' "salad bar" including a gentleman's agreement to subsequently hire him as a more expensive coach.

Great point about the investments in training. Wait 'til they unveil that new facility just up from the Lakeshore Lions'... that's going to be a revelation.

(P.S. Not knocking Hirsch's wisdom; perhaps only the forcefulness of his convictions against those of Wilson, Hunter & Burke.)

[mrusse01 0]

Trading a bunch of picks for the number one wont happen. For one, Burke is too smart to do something like that. And two, the leafs don't have the assets to pull something like that off. What would they give the Islanders or Tampa Bay that would be better for them than Tavares or Hedmen respectively? Not sure about TB, but the Isles already have a good amount of draft picks.

Im curious to the Schenn thing, would the leafs pass up on a possible Paajarvi if hes still on the board to take Luke's brother?

I don't know, didn't Burke essentially do that to get the Sedin's?

Toronto could have a top 5 pick, I would think they could easily put together a package in addition to that pick to move up to 1st overall. For example, would the Isle turn down the 5th overall pick this year, Buffalo's 2nd rounder, and Toronto's 1st round pick next year in exchange for Tavares? They'd have to at least think about it. Throw in maybe Ian White, or a prospect like Kulemin/Tlusty...even Kabby or Kubina if the Isles are interested. Would that be the best move for the Leafs? I don't know, depends how much you like Tavares I suppose.

[Law Goalie 147]

That's an interesting scenario... one of the K-D's + a pick (maybe not even a 1st) for the 1/1 draft. That might be the only way trading Kaberle makes sense: given the high value of his contract & cap hit relative his play getting Tavares or Hedman could conceivably yield an immediate roster player at a cheaper and longer & higher-value contract than Kaberle, which is pretty unlikely with anyone other than those two; the logic on Kubina is basically the same though he's less valuable against his contract. There's still at least the possibility that Tavares or Hedman could be a bust, for whatever reason, as opposed to an established NHL prospect like Doughty, Schenn or (given his recet play) Stamkos - I wouldn't see either any of those guys taken as a straight trade for one of the K's.

[adam14 182]

but you also need to take into consideration, what happens if Tavares goes number one, and just becomes another alexander daigle, or have a bad season like stamkos, considering the hype that followed him around. I dont think that will happen, but its still something to think about.

[Law Goalie 147]

I did... notice the hypothetical language.

[adam14 182]

my bad, should have read your post more clearly. haha

[mrusse01 0]

That's an interesting scenario... one of the K-D's + a pick (maybe not even a 1st) for the 1/1 draft. That might be the only way trading Kaberle makes sense: given the high value of his contract & cap hit relative his play getting Tavares or Hedman could conceivably yield an immediate roster player at a cheaper and longer & higher-value contract than Kaberle, which is pretty unlikely with anyone other than those two; the logic on Kubina is basically the same though he's less valuable against his contract. There's still at least the possibility that Tavares or Hedman could be a bust, for whatever reason, as opposed to an established NHL prospect like Doughty, Schenn or (given his recet play) Stamkos - I wouldn't see either any of those guys taken as a straight trade for one of the K's.

Sorry - I completely miss what you are saying here.

Are you suggesting Kaberle or Kubina + a 2nd round pick in exchange for the 1st overall selection in this year's draft? I would imagine the team with the first pick would be laughing into the phone if Burke tried to offer that deal.

I see almost no possible way for the Leafs to get the #1 overall pick without moving their 1st round pick this year as part of the deal. Say the 5th overall pick, Kaberle, and a 2nd round pick this year....that might be more palatable, but I would still be extremely surprised if the Islanders would accept that deal. The Islanders have a very similar player to Kaberle already on the roster (and perhaps a superior player) in Mark Streit. There is also the issue of a rebuilding team not really needing an older player like Kubina or Kaberle, even if they do have decent contracts.

I think a more logical scenario would be to try and trade either one of or both Kubina/Kaberle for 1st round picks, then turn around and move that pick, in addition to the Leafs 1st rounder this year, and probably something else, to move up to #1 overall.

John Tavares may not be in the Crosby/Ovechkin sure thing category...but he's not far behind. The kid is a legitimate junior phenom, for a team to risk giving up someone like that, I think it's going to take a completely overwhelming offer.

People like to bring up Daigle, but that was in 1993...scouting processes are much more advanced in the NHL in 2009. Look at a list of the #1 overall picks since then, the two worst are probably Patrick Stefan, who was in a horrible draft, and I guess maybe Chris Phillips, but that was another brutal brutal draft. Even going back into the 80's, there aren't a lot of real clunkers taken #1 overall.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NHL_f...l_draft_choices

[Law Goalie 147]

Sorry, had a little idiot-lapse there - I meant to say "maybe just a 1st" or "maybe not even Buffalo's 2nd as well", and it came out like a burble of vomit. I now also apologise to adam14, who probably assumed I was a moron as a result of that as well. I really should know better than to post after a 6am practice without making my coffee first.

I guess it depends how close a team thinks they are. A two-season turnaround seems like a possibility these days. The Isles might not need Kaberle, but the Kings might take that bait if they drop a little further. I do agree that in all likelihood, a Leafs' play for the top pick would probably be a two or three-stage move - which makes it even less likely.

I think the only two real busts since Daigle have been Stefan and DiPietro (whose durable health really should have been a bigger consideration in drafting him). Philips may not be Team Canada material, but he's been an extremely effective NHL defenseman. Jovanovski was a bit of a flash in the pan and a long trail-off, but not anything like the worst of that bunch.

[mrusse01 0]

I just think the hype around Tavares is such that it will almost be impossible to get that number 1 pick off of whomever has it. If you are a GM, you are much less likely to be crucified for drafting Tavares and him turning out to be a bust than you are if you trade away that pick and he turns into a superstar.

If Hedman and Tavares had switched roles at the WJC and Hedman was the standout player and Tavares stunk and Canada lost, I could see someone maybe willing to deal him. But as it is, and who knows what London does in the playoffs, I'd be shocked if a team moved out of the number one overall spot.

I suppose you can call DiPietro a bust at this point, but I still think he has the talent to be a top 5 goalie in the league, and if he gets a couple of injury free years on a respectable team, that 'bust' label could be forgotten.

[kosydar 0]

Tavares would be really nice, but like you said I can't imagine any team trading him. If it cost the Leafs something alone the lines of their first, Tlusty, Stralman, and more picks I wouldn't do it. The Leafs need depth in their prospect pool, not just one elite talent (who isn't a surefire thing). I'd be more than happy drafting Schenn, Kane or Duchene, plus hanging on to our seconds. It seems that the Leafs have a tendency to trade their seconds away, but over the past couple of years guys like Jimmy Hayes and Nik Kulemin, both of whom have a lot of potential. This draft is supposed to be deep and I feel confident in the Leafs drafting team. I know it is way too early to tell, but last year guys like Stefanovich and Champange look like they could be steals.

[KryptOng 9]

Tavares would be really nice, but like you said I can't imagine any team trading him. If it cost the Leafs something alone the lines of their first, Tlusty, Stralman, and more picks I wouldn't do it. The Leafs need depth in their prospect pool, not just one elite talent (who isn't a surefire thing). I'd be more than happy drafting Schenn, Kane or Duchene, plus hanging on to our seconds. It seems that the Leafs have a tendency to trade their seconds away, but over the past couple of years guys like Jimmy Hayes and Nik Kulemin, both of whom have a lot of potential. This draft is supposed to be deep and I feel confident in the Leafs drafting team. I know it is way too early to tell, but last year guys like Stefanovich and Champange look like they could be steals.

I also agree, I rather the Leafs stockpile prospects and have more chances of developing those prospects then "put all their eggs in one basket" kinda move. Duchene, Kane and Schenn all look like solid prospects and I'd be very happy if we drafted either one of them. Nothing against European players, but I think the Leafs have more then enough Euro players (Kabby, Kubina, Hagman, Poni, Grabby, Kulemin, Tlusty, Stralman). They need more NA players in their line up, especially top 6 forward NA player.

[RiSeOnFiRe 0]

What does nationality have anything to do with either putting the puck in the net, or keeping it out? if the better player and better fit for your system is from mars, by all means take the martian.

[RadioGaGa 162]

After the tying goal tonight...Gerber was a little off with the call...he bumped the ref slightly...and then shot puck down the ice at him.

So, if the ref deems the bump was intentional (Class 3 offense) it could carry a 10 game suspension...The puck shooting (Class 2) could be a 3 gamer.

I don't have the rules in front of me...going from what TSN said in the Intermission of Edm/Det.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

After the tying goal tonight...Gerber was a little off with the call...he bumped the ref slightly...and then shot puck down the ice at him.

So, if the ref deems the bump was intentional (Class 3 offense) it could carry a 10 game suspension...The puck shooting (Class 2) could be a 3 gamer.

I don't have the rules in front of me...going from what TSN said in the Intermission of Edm/Det.

They are reporting down here (washington) that he got 3 games

[RadioGaGa 162]

After the tying goal tonight...Gerber was a little off with the call...he bumped the ref slightly...and then shot puck down the ice at him.

So, if the ref deems the bump was intentional (Class 3 offense) it could carry a 10 game suspension...The puck shooting (Class 2) could be a 3 gamer.

I don't have the rules in front of me...going from what TSN said in the Intermission of Edm/Det.

They are reporting down here (washington) that he got 3 games

As a Caps fan....what did you think. Not about the reaction...but the call itself.?

[hockeysc23 0]

After the tying goal tonight...Gerber was a little off with the call...he bumped the ref slightly...and then shot puck down the ice at him.

So, if the ref deems the bump was intentional (Class 3 offense) it could carry a 10 game suspension...The puck shooting (Class 2) could be a 3 gamer.

I don't have the rules in front of me...going from what TSN said in the Intermission of Edm/Det.

They are reporting down here (washington) that he got 3 games

As a Caps fan....what did you think. Not about the reaction...but the call itself.?

I thought there wasn't enough evidence either way to overturn the call or enforce it. Maybe the ref saw the puck out ..... maybe he didn't but since there wasn't enough evidence on the video the call on the ice of the people there should stand.

That being said if the teams were reversed I would be upset. But the Caps have been on the bad end of some controversial goals this season and last so its nice to get one going your way.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

After the tying goal tonight...Gerber was a little off with the call...he bumped the ref slightly...and then shot puck down the ice at him.

So, if the ref deems the bump was intentional (Class 3 offense) it could carry a 10 game suspension...The puck shooting (Class 2) could be a 3 gamer.

I don't have the rules in front of me...going from what TSN said in the Intermission of Edm/Det.

They are reporting down here (washington) that he got 3 games

As a Caps fan....what did you think. Not about the reaction...but the call itself.?

If it had been waved off as no goal, and upheld, I wouldn't have really had a complaint. I think the issue was a tough one, because even watching the overhead replay (I have to give comcast credit, they always give good replays on these types of calls), I couldn't see if the puck went in, or when.

The ref called it a goal, so under review, I think the burden of proof is to show conclusive evidence that the puck didn't go into the net. There was no such proof. If it had been called no goal, then it would have been upheld under review too.

As a caps fan, I loved the call, because as scott said, the caps have been on the shit end of the stick a few times this season on goal calls. But objectively, whatever call was initally made was going to hold up.

Apart from the one game in late december (a few days after christmas) when the caps won by a few goals, the leafs have given the caps trouble all year. I don't know why, because on paper, the caps should dominate them, but fair play to the leafs, they haven't

[Law Goalie 147]

The goalie can't be pushed into the net along with the puck.

The ruling wasn't whether the puck crossed the line - it was whether Gerber had control before it crossed the line, or, at the very least, was in the process of preventing it from crossing the line when he and the puck were pushed in.

It was a close call either way.

However, I would have been livid if that had been called a goal against me.

And I have to say, it was nice to see Babes in a rage; little passion might be just what he needs.

[mrusse01 0]

I thought there wasn't enough evidence either way to overturn the call or enforce it. Maybe the ref saw the puck out ..... maybe he didn't but since there wasn't enough evidence on the video the call on the ice of the people there should stand.

My understanding is that this theory is inaccurate, and is widely reported as being true because of the 'ruling on the field' rule in the NFL.

I'm fairly certain in the NHL that the ruling on the ice does not matter at all, once the play goes to video review they ignore what the referee called on the play and make the best decision based on the video evidence they have.

[tony1233 0]

I thought there wasn't enough evidence either way to overturn the call or enforce it. Maybe the ref saw the puck out ..... maybe he didn't but since there wasn't enough evidence on the video the call on the ice of the people there should stand.

My understanding is that this theory is inaccurate, and is widely reported as being true because of the 'ruling on the field' rule in the NFL.

I'm fairly certain in the NHL that the ruling on the ice does not matter at all, once the play goes to video review they ignore what the referee called on the play and make the best decision based on the video evidence they have.

If the the video replays are inconclusive then the call on the ice stands. That being said it's too bad that gerber did react as intense as he did because, it could very well mean the end of his season.. but all things considered, is it really a whole lot worse then tukka rasks' flip out ?

While I know hitting the officals is enforced heavily, Rask threw his stick down the ice, then threw his blocker and gove at the wall then proceeded to throw milk crates on to the ice...this coulhave put many people in danger!

[RadioGaGa 162]

Suspension confirmed: http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=272618

[turc91 0]

How many fans are at the game tonight ... seats are empty