Low vs Mid Kickpoint

[ottawa85563 0]

What are the advantages and disadvantages of low and mid kickpoints on a stick?

[raygunpk 0]

Low for wrist/snappers and mid for slap shots. That's the general consensus. I personally don't notice a difference.

[interpathway 9]

Low KP gets the shot off quicker...less time for loading. --> Quicker Release

Mid-High KP delays the 'snap' of the KP...more time to loadup into your shot. --> Harder Result

[tamtamg 12]

is there a thread around here that list all the sticks and their kick points?

[caldakid 0]

is there a thread around here that list all the sticks and their kick points?

x2 that would be handy

[Chadd 916]

is there a thread around here that list all the sticks and their kick points?

x2 that would be handy

It would be a list of 50 sticks that all claim to have the lowest kickpoint and ten standard shafts. My favorite was a couple years ago when one of the reps tried telling me that the kickpoint on one of his sticks was in the blade.

[wildebeest 0]

is there a thread around here that list all the sticks and their kick points?

x2 that would be handy

It would be a list of 50 sticks that all claim to have the lowest kickpoint and ten standard shafts. My favorite was a couple years ago when one of the reps tried telling me that the kickpoint on one of his sticks was in the blade.

Would he be repping a company that rhymes with "creeston"? I had a guy tell me the S17's kickpoint was down in the blade. Silly.

[Chadd 916]

is there a thread around here that list all the sticks and their kick points?

x2 that would be handy

It would be a list of 50 sticks that all claim to have the lowest kickpoint and ten standard shafts. My favorite was a couple years ago when one of the reps tried telling me that the kickpoint on one of his sticks was in the blade.

Would he be repping a company that rhymes with "creeston"? I had a guy tell me the S17's kickpoint was down in the blade. Silly.

In this case, no. But a lot of reps will say anything about product because they only care about moving product. Not all reps, but the shop guys know the type I'm talking about and can probably name at least one or two that they deal with. That said, please don't name them here.

[interpathway 9]

Even if a KP could be manufactured in a blade (maybe it can, not an engineer), how would that help hockey players? Would a KP in the middle of a blade actually help a player snap his shots any harder or more accurately? My common sense says no, making a Rep's claim of this hard to believe.

[roller to ice 0]

a kp in the blade would most likely make it impossible to receive any pass thats the least bit hard

[interpathway 9]

That, plus we all love stiff blades. Who wants a blade that kicks/flexes?

[minwookie 0]

A kp in the blade would practically be the same as no KP at all.

At least in golf a midkick = lower trajectory and lowkick = higher launch.

[raygunpk 0]

is there a thread around here that list all the sticks and their kick points?

I think the only advertised high kp sticks are the Supreme Onexx series. I read on here that somebody said the 9kO had a high kp as well. Everything else always says "lowest kickpoint ever!"

[Rustpot 1]

is there a thread around here that list all the sticks and their kick points?

I think the only advertised high kp sticks are the Supreme Onexx series. I read on here that somebody said the 9kO had a high kp as well. Everything else always says "lowest kickpoint ever!"

The 9K had no flex in the "power port" area of the stick, but RBK still advertised it as having a kickpoint in there, as they do with the 808.

I still don't know how the companies determine where the actual "point" is. I can see how they can lower and concentrate the flex of the stick, but does anyone really know what "kick point" means? It still confuses me how a more rigid taper zone can create the kick of the stick when it is the stiffer zone of the shaft, and also why there seems to be a technology race to get it as low as possible. It seems like a very, ultra low kickpoint will not allow a shooter to load and release, so why not put out a 200 flex stick and call it the "Mega kick Stick" or something?

[minwookie 0]

...does anyone really know what "kick point" means?

Kick point refers to the portion of the shaft where bend or flex is localized when force is applied. From a statics standpoint, where the hands are placed makes a difference, as distance affects torque. The rigidity of a shaft can be altered at certain points by change in material used and other factors like the cross sectional design (ellipses). Intersubway made a point earlier saying that the lower the KP, the faster the load and quicker a shooter can reach the maximum potential of the twig, think pendulums and the relation between radius and oscillatory frequency, or guitar strings. As the KP is moved higher, the potential increases at the expense of load time.

With a uniform piece of shaft, it would make sense that the KP be exactly in the center. Now you add in variables like purposeful alteration of engineering and the fact that there exists a blade on the end of the shaft.

Now we know that the flex of a shaft refers to the amount of force in lbs or kg it takes to bend the shaft 1 inch. It would make sense that the flex be lowest if tested at the KP.

I'm not sure if what I wrote even makes sense. I was an engineering major. Engineers are notorious for having a hard time communicating their ideas to a normal population.

[Law Goalie 147]

That, plus we all love stiff blades. Who wants a blade that kicks/flexes?

Bobby Hull.

[Rustpot 1]

...does anyone really know what "kick point" means?

I'm not sure if what I wrote even makes sense. I was an engineering major. Engineers are notorious for having a hard time communicating their ideas to a normal population.

I'm an ME, I know where you're going. I know what the KP is referring to, what I want to know is how manufacturers can claim an exact spot of "kick".

I have a Sickick, it does not flex much in the "Kick Zone", the bulk of the flex is still at the bottom hand. TPS sticks with tri-zone flexes put the stiffest zone at the bottom, RBK's O-tech increases taper area rigidity, Easton's Ellipse does not flex at all, my XXXX and Fuel Ti with super-thin tapers don't seem to give much either. These are ALL advertised as low-kick sticks. How is it there is a low kick point when the supposed point does not flex, and therefore cannot provide "kick"? I notice the flex being lower than a standard shaft, but in no way am I seeing it ~10" from the heel where the advertising would lead you to believe.

I certainly don't notice these ultra-low kick sticks being any different from a run-of-the-mill low kick stick. We all know the difference between mid and low, that's certain, but it seems like there is a ton of gray area in the "low" kick spectrum.

It seems the stick technology is moving contrary to the notion of wanting a lower and lower flex/kick zone/point. Faster load and release comes from a softer flex and a more resiliant carbon weave that will return the flex faster with less energy loss, yet sticks are getting even stiffer in the lower region of the shaft. It also seems like dealers are flat-out lying about stick properties to make more sales based on "low kickpoint = better stick".

Aside from engineering and how they can control the flex profile of the stick, what are the manufacturers referring to when they say "kick point"? Is that just a meaningless phrase now? Is there an actual spot that manufacturers can identify, or do they hook up a flex machine, crank on the stick and the point that bends most is designated the "kick point"?

[minwookie 0]

You make some good points Rustpot. Marketing and engineering will always be at an impasse due to the fact that most people don't understand the mechanics behind sports are always trying to outfit themselves with the latest and greatest despite being so result oriented. It's refreshing to have stumbled (actually I was pointed) upon this board where there is such a wealth of information at my fingertips.

I usually have a hard-time buying into marketing hype and prefer to figure out what works for me and find out why. I am, however, turning into a bit of a gear whore in that I'm slowly replacing my gear higher up the product lines and really doing my research first.

I'm gonna develop a launch monitor for hockey like they have in golf (if they haven't already) and do stick fittings. Who's with me?

[Jarick 5]

I'm visualizing a standard shaft and a tapered shaft. With the standard, if you place one hand at the top and one halfway down and push down, the shaft should arch all the way across, similar to a bow. With the tapered, the shaft should be straighter in the top half and more curved in the bottom:

[raygunpk 0]

That's how I imagine it too. How it applies, I'm not so sure. Especially with Rustpot's post, seems like it's all marketing gimmick to me...which makes me wonder if I dropped a lot of money for top of the line sticks when maybe a 2nd or 3rd tier could have done the same job.

[interpathway 9]

A launch monitor for stick fitting would actually be quite amazing, although probably monetarily unfeasible. I can only assume (hope?) that companies would be willing to donate 5-6 sticks in each handedness with a couple different curves/flexes, but almost nobody uses a stick without cutting it or putting a plug into it. Alas, perhaps puck velocity monitors are best saved for the next generation.

[Rustpot 1]

Right, and that explains why tapered vs. standard in the same flex rating will feel different, the tapered being the stiffer of the two. Less deflection is felt in the hands so the shaft doesn't feel like it's flexing nearly as much.

So when a tapered shaft is desinged to flex more in the tpaer area and has a very stiff taper area....

[TBLfan 25]

There are exceptions, the one95 is ultra stiff up high and then are a consistent flex below that point. Then there is the zbubble/S15.

[xaero604 0]

on a somewhat related note:

I'm starting to think that the valid reasons for buying a top tier stick isn't really for the taper/elliptical/octagonal design but rather for the weight-savings and fatigue-resistance of the materials under repeated load?

[raygunpk 0]

Are you talking about losing kick over time?