Spinarama in a shoot out

[Rustpot 1]

No. In the ASG it doesn't matter if you score or not, so doing some crazy, off the wall move and having fun is what it was about. You can do anything, no risk.

I'm operating under the assumption that getting creative would increase one's ability to score, a necessary assumption for your analogy to be valid since in the ASG, getting creative increases one's chances of winning.

Did you watch the Skills Competition with the shootout contest? If a guy has never tried a "Windmill" or a "Michigan" move before, chances are he's not going to score if he tries it. They wouldn't have practiced these moves and wouldn't be good at them, but the premise was to "get creative" and try crazy stuff. Was it Crosby or Getzlaf that tried to lacrosse the puck and failed a few times? They tried to get creative and failed, something they would NOT try in a game without serious practice first.

[mgoblue 0]

The point I was trying to make is that either

i) Shootouts are analogous to the NBA Slam-Dunk Competition, in which case creativity would increase performance.

or

ii) Shootouts are not analogous to the NBA Slam-Dunk Competition, in which case it's unfair to assume that players' reluctance to be creative in the Slam-Dunk Competition is relevant to potential player behavior in NHL shootouts.

As far as the "Michigan," such moves are already allowed in shootouts. If I understand correctly, Chadd's proposed format would allow for wrap-arounds and stationary moves in front of the goaltender.

Edit - Spelling

[Chadd 916]

The point I was trying to make is that either

i) Shootouts are analogous to the NBA Slam-Dunk Competition, in which case creativity would increase performance.

or

ii) Shootouts are not analogous to the NBA Slam-Dunk Competition, in which case it's unfair to assume that players' reluctance to be creative in the Slam-Dunk Competition is relevant to potential player behavior in NHL shootouts.

As far as the "Michigan," such moves are already allowed in shootouts. If I understand correctly, Chadd's proposed format would allow for wrap-arounds and stationary moves in front of the goaltender.

Edit - Spelling

NHL players have traditionally not been as flamboyant as NBA players. While the NHLs intent may have been to create a dunk type of competition, it's not surprising that it was a complete flop.

[mgoblue 0]

I think I misunderstood Rusty's original analogy.

Did you mean "Slam Dunk" at the NHL ASG or the actual NBA "Slam-Dunk" competition.

If the former, I wasn't on the same page.

[camhockey16 5]

i don't have a problem with the spin-o-rama as long as the player doesnt interfere with the goalie. I remember seeing one where the guys started stopping too late and hit skates ran into the goalie's leg pads and basically pushed the goalie out of position. As long as something like that doesn't happen then i don't see anything wrong with it.

[Rustpot 1]

I think I misunderstood Rusty's original analogy.

Did you mean "Slam Dunk" at the NHL ASG or the actual NBA "Slam-Dunk" competition.

If the former, I wasn't on the same page.

http://ballhype.com/story/nhl_4/

The former, when, at the All Star Skills Competion Brought to You by Dodge (or whatever the official name was :P), the rules for a shootout were completely removed and players were given complete freedom to start, stop, highstick, flip, go behind the net, jump through hoops of fire, anything. It was called a Slam-Dunk Shootout for its likeness to the NBA Dunkfest where players can travel and do anything they want to pull off creative dunk moves.

It was very similar to what was proposed- having shootout rules for games be reduced to increase creativity and scoring. My point was that the NHL tried it and most of the guys did a simple deke. Those that tried to get fancy either failed or were still within the current rule set.

[Chadd 916]

I think I misunderstood Rusty's original analogy.

Did you mean "Slam Dunk" at the NHL ASG or the actual NBA "Slam-Dunk" competition.

If the former, I wasn't on the same page.

http://ballhype.com/story/nhl_4/

The former, when, at the All Star Skills Competion Brought to You by Dodge (or whatever the official name was :P ), the rules for a shootout were completely removed and players were given complete freedom to start, stop, highstick, flip, go behind the net, jump through hoops of fire, anything. It was called a Slam-Dunk Shootout for its likeness to the NBA Dunkfest where players can travel and do anything they want to pull off creative dunk moves.

It was very similar to what was proposed- having shootout rules for games be reduced to increase creativity and scoring. My point was that the NHL tried it and most of the guys did a simple deke. Those that tried to get fancy either failed or were still within the current rule set.

Again, most NHL guys aren't going to do something special for a one-off event. Open up the rules and give them the summer to come up with some new stuff. You MAY get some guys trying some more creative stuff. You're still going to have a lot of guys that are just going to go with normal moves and/or shots but you might as well open it up entirely in hopes that it eventually becomes a little more entertaining.

You're also going to have certain coaches that will not want anyone trying something new with a point on the line.

[mgoblue 0]

Gotcha. My bad.

But I still think my original principle holds - because regular season shootouts are more important, guys are more likely to employ (and thus, practice) the moves that are most effective.

Because we've yet to see the "slam-dunk" format in the regular season, we can't really say what moves are the most effective.

However, with the rules opened up, there would be an ebb and flow to this anyway. For if it was determined that the most effective moves are traditional moves already allowed by current rules, then only those moves would be used, and thus expected. So, the one guy who breaks the mold and tries something crazy like a wrap-around and scores might provoke others to do the same, until that becomes the expectation - and things are pushed back toward traditional moves.

I dunno, I just have a Logic 303 final exam this afternoon so I'm fooling around with hypotheticals...

[adam14 182]

and for the record, listen to the commentators whenever there is a shootout, teams practice penalty shots at the end of almost every practice.

[mrusse01 0]

The NBA comparison doesn't really hold though because in hockey, there is a goalie trying to stop you. At the NHL ASG it wasn't about scoring, it was about scoring with style...so the goalies knew the players were going to doing something unexpected. Look at...was it Turco?...who skated out basically to the hash marks and poke checked I think St. Louis.

If it were a 'real' shootout, the goalie wouldn't know if the player was going to come in and just take a snap shot, or if he was going to bounce the puck on his stick coming down the ice, so there would be the element of surprise.

[kosydar 0]

I don't care if its a legal move or not, I'm just jazzed the Leafs won a SO game.

[LkptTiger 1]

I've heard this argument before, and I'm sure I'll hear it again...but I don't think I'm ever going to listen to it or really give it any thought at all - even now that my beloved Devils have been burned by the move in question.

My thoughts at the time of the goal were as follows: "Awww, Godda....Jesus Christ, that was a beauty." I was bummed by the fact that he scored for about .5 seconds - then I just had to sit and shake my head. It's a great move and a good goal. We're doing something wrong if our immediate reaction is to ask "Is that a legal goal?".

[coryroth24 15]

I've heard this argument before, and I'm sure I'll hear it again...but I don't think I'm ever going to listen to it or really give it any thought at all - even now that my beloved Devils have been burned by the move in question.

My thoughts at the time of the goal were as follows: "Awww, Godda....Jesus Christ, that was a beauty." I was bummed by the fact that he scored for about .5 seconds - then I just had to sit and shake my head. It's a great move and a good goal. We're doing something wrong if our immediate reaction is to ask "Is that a legal goal?".

I was pretty much in the same boat as you. I was more like "Did that just happen?" It was pretty ballsy of Blake to pull that off (I have his stick in my collection, I wonder if it came with that move...) I didn't even think to question the move until I saw the blog on the Star Ledger's web site, thus resulting in this 3-page thread. It's pretty funny reading all of the Devils fans comments on the blog. Even after I posted the rule from the NHL book, they're still saying the move was illegal! :lol:

[mrusse01 0]

I've heard this argument before, and I'm sure I'll hear it again...but I don't think I'm ever going to listen to it or really give it any thought at all - even now that my beloved Devils have been burned by the move in question.

My thoughts at the time of the goal were as follows: "Awww, Godda....Jesus Christ, that was a beauty." I was bummed by the fact that he scored for about .5 seconds - then I just had to sit and shake my head. It's a great move and a good goal. We're doing something wrong if our immediate reaction is to ask "Is that a legal goal?".

I was pretty much in the same boat as you. I was more like "Did that just happen?" It was pretty ballsy of Blake to pull that off (I have his stick in my collection, I wonder if it came with that move...) I didn't even think to question the move until I saw the blog on the Star Ledger's web site, thus resulting in this 3-page thread. It's pretty funny reading all of the Devils fans comments on the blog. Even after I posted the rule from the NHL book, they're still saying the move was illegal! :lol:

Don't feel bad...Damien Cox in the Toronto Star referred to the move as 'quasi-legal'. I guess when the rule book mentions something specifically by name and then says it is allowed, it's still not really completely legal.

[SAK 2]

I loved the move he was on the FBV. :D

[AnthonyJTa 0]

First the spin-o-rama debate, now the debacle in the Lightning/Avs game? I didn't see a topic on it, but I figured I would bring it up in here.

[roller to ice 0]

this maybe a lil off topic but in reference to the original post saying or is it just n.j fans whining is it me or just n.j(a certain goaltender)whine more than anyone else (even though he wasnt in for the shootout) the ovie mirrored visor how for no reason a year after the incident and w/ avery on a diff team he whacked avery on the back