CCM Pro Tacks

[Ital79 0]

...we're talking about a skate that needs to be heat molded to take shape of your foot.

Now I get it! The way it was previously articulated to me (LHS salesman), the padding inside molded much like the Pro-Tacks. I didn't know the whole damn thing shape-shifted...

Thanks for setting me straight.

[ahbroody 1]

Yeah I guess I should have made my point more clearly TBL.

My point was two part. Weight and forming.

The weight savings is somewhat hype. That was why I brought up guys like Patty M. He is and has been one of the faster skaters in the league and doesnt use the lighter skates. If the U+ is half the weight I can guarentee using it doesnt make anyone 50% faster. I imagine the speed difference is almost negligable when you are talking about most skaters. That would bebad marketing though and would kill the weight hype. Also the runner and blade help that weight on the U+ and would also help the tacks. Its like the vapor 60 thread. So much hype for what? Its not going to make a big difference in anyones speed, but damn you would think jesus himself built the skate with jets. As long as we are talking vapor, 50% of NHL use these not the One series or s15 or U+. Out of these four boots the vapor is the closest though not very close to the Tack type boot.

As to the forming technology it has come at the price of durability. Some of us are arguing that the slight fit improvements make a less durable skate. Its the economic model though. Who wants to make a skate that will last. The company looses too much money that way. You need an angle and to hype it up as being a game changer even though its not. Lets be honest. I was not wowed by the new tech as to thermo forming over skates like the tacks I just picked up. Its not as if its perfect by any stretch there are still issues. Skates still are not designed for each foot and you still need to find the right base boot to then mold.

My son is not even 3 and a half and has been skating 5 months and is faster then many of the 5 year olds with more time skating in his class. I honestly believe this is because I spent the time to find him the right boot for his foot not because he is in a light skate. He doesnt know hes in reebok 1ks he knows to move his feet fast.

Like JR and Chadd and you have pointed out though. This thread is largely a waste of time because the Tacks are likely never comming back. If they do they wont be like the old ones.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

I will tell you I never had footspeed as I did with U+/RR. It is ridiculous.

[Ital79 0]

Ounces and fluid ounces are different...LOL

...about 1.2g different when talking about water. That's about what an average paperclip weighs.

Come on man, I couldn't think of any other common household item I could use as an example as most people don't have accurate scales or massive quantities of paperclips in their home.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

LOL and the cans...

I'm just bustin' balls man, I've got a swollen leg and the Copenhagen isn't working...

[DarkStar50 679]

I find this thread to be a lot more interesting than whether or not OV is now tying his pants with a waxed yellow 84" lace from Graf or heavy waxed white 96" from A & R after the warm-ups. I believe he did switch the other night in Carolina or was it Tampa or was it Sunrise?

There are a number of different points everyone has brought up. The issue of skate weight gets way too much attention. The issue should be fit. Yes, Pat Marleau can skate like the wind in those diesel 9K Pump Trucks. That is because the skates fit him properly and fit him the best. Vapor owns 50% of the NHL, not because it is light, but because it fits the player properly. An NHL player will always go with fit over weight in skate selection(Unless you are Sidney Crosby and you are stuck in 9K Pumps regardless of fit because you have this damned endorsement contract). The consumer at the shop gets too excited about weight and wants what is lightest. Whenever a person asks me the difference between Vapor and Supreme, I start with how the skate is built and how it will fit. I am addressing the angle of the eyelets on the Vapor vs the angle of the eyelets on the Supreme. The deeper angle of the Vapor eyelets allows for more forward flex while the traditional boot cut angle of the Supreme brings more of the skate over your foot. Think how much knee bend and waist bend an NHLer uses stride after stride and the pressure he puts on forward momentum on his boots. Is it any wonder 50% are in Vapors? Not really. Choose the skate for fit, not weight. Simple stuff, really.

The durability issue is always a hot topic. I had a guy I worked with in my old shop back in the late 80s bring in his Supreme 2000s(top end model/late80s) yesterday. They were beat up, broken down, but serviceable. I even forgot that Bauer cut out the eyelet on the boot at the flex notch point. That was interesting to see again. Now the 2000 was the third generation of top end Custom Supreme. Bauer had been producing skates on product life cycles of 2 years and new models in the 80s. This has been going on for over 20 years. The introduction of a top end second family with Vapor is what messed up everyone's head. The Vapor 8 was also the first step in producing true performance skates with distinct advantages. The thermo-molding and the boot design were innovations to the skate industry. We all know that so no need to re-hash it. Now performance was paramount. Skate durability is as much a function and result of the user as well as the manufacturer. When players do not air out their skates, pull out the foot beds, let the rivets rot to hell, and never even bother to change their soaking ripped laces, then skate life is a result of negligence on the owner. I see all these problems all the time sharpening skates over 25 years. It's not the skate's fault, it's the owner's fault. If you take care of your gear, it will take care of you.

Unfortunately, the closest most of us will get to Bauer headquarters in St Jerome is through the video on NikeBauer. However, having been inside and knowing what they do and how they do it, you get a greater appreciation for their end products. I still haven't seen any dedicated "hype" to the X:60 come directly from Bauer. The hype has all been here where this is a forum of enablers who feed on our own self-generated hype. Don't blame Bauer for making you crazy about X:60s. We were down this road just a few years ago waiting for Supreme ONE90. It has been way too easy to fall in the same trap again.

Somewhere in Manitoba, George Tackaberry is turning in his grave wondering whatever happened to his beloved Tackaberry fit. George, I'm with ya! I wonder, too.

[DarkStar50 679]

Edge and Externo skates = the beginning of the end. I forgot what truly hideous skates they were at retail. You nailed it with those two families starting the downward spiral. The Pro glove/ retail glove point is dead on, too. I have the CCM catalogs from the 90s and they are just sad to look at. There is nothing there speaking to innovation or evolution of product. Everyone acts like its Bauer's fault that CCM is f'd up! Hello!! CCM did it to themselves and Bauer was practically handed the opportunity. Remember when Bauer couldn't ship product in 97 due to internal DC issues? CCM still could have gotten back in the game then. Yet, even though Bauer apologizes to this day for that, Bauer just got stronger and stronger. Oh yeah, it's Bauer's fault the industry is such a mess!!? Give me a break. This stuff is classic Graduate Business School case study example of two companies headed in different directions.

[Alan 0]

Somewhere in Manitoba, George Tackaberry is turning in his grave wondering whatever happened to his beloved Tackaberry fit. George, I'm with ya! I wonder, too.

Um, the Tackaberry fit arrived at my house this morning. That's what happened to it!

Haha, my new pro tacks just arrived in the mail and I'll be trying them on in around 3 hours!!

I know that the weight comment has been beat to death about skating speed, etc. But if these skates fit me like the older ones used to, then I'll be one of the fastest skaters on the ice. Ever since I left CCM, I've been having trouble finding a skate that fits me right, and it has affected my speed and mobility on the ice. The G35 does an alright job, but I've got high hopes for these tacks.

I know this is kinda irrelevant, but I've played competitive soccer for years, and I have always been one of the fastest runners on the team. I don't buy soccer shoes that are lighter to run faster. I purchase ones that fit and are comfortable. That's what makes me fast. Mostly everyone on the team has anywhere from $250-$400 soccer shoes. I've got a pair of $80 Adidas Predators (ones that you find at a generic sports store)..Vinyl instead of Kangaroo leather, etc. They are cheapies. The first time I showed up to practice on a new team, everyone was making fun of my shoes. After the first game, nobody ever made fun of my shoes again. Soccer shoes don't make the player, and I find that the same in hockey. As long as something fits right, that's all that matters. (About quality though, I blow through a pair of shoes in one season easily...regardless of the price of the shoe. It's a lot cheaper to replace $80 shoes than $300 shoes!)

If my Pro Tacks fit like they used to, I'm going to be extremely happy. We'll see though. I don't have a game until Tomorrow, but I'll be getting them heat molded and sharpened today.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

Somewhere in Manitoba, George Tackaberry is turning in his grave wondering whatever happened to his beloved Tackaberry fit. George, I'm with ya! I wonder, too.

Um, the Tackaberry fit arrived at my house this morning. That's what happened to it!

Actually, no...

When the 1052 came out in 2000 and they deviated from that fit, less and less players wore it and they never went back to that fit. That's why you saw guys like Jovanovski who was in 752s for a VERY LONG time, and obv the Modanos, Kovalevs and Chelioses of the world...

[ahbroody 1]

Hey JR.

I was going to get these for my son as his next skates cause he has flat wide high volume feet like mine and the reeboks work well for him.

Can you tell me if the specs on these are accurate or are these the adult specs. Im thinking its adult specs as it says Epro

http://www.hockeymonkey.com/ccm-protacks-yth.html

[fastbrother7 0]

There are a number of different points everyone has brought up. The issue of skate weight gets way too much attention. The issue should be fit. Yes, Pat Marleau can skate like the wind in those diesel 9K Pump Trucks. That is because the skates fit him properly and fit him the best. Vapor owns 50% of the NHL, not because it is light, but because it fits the player properly. An NHL player will always go with fit over weight in skate selection(Unless you are Sidney Crosby and you are stuck in 9K Pumps regardless of fit because you have this damned endorsement contract). The consumer at the shop gets too excited about weight and wants what is lightest. Whenever a person asks me the difference between Vapor and Supreme, I start with how the skate is built and how it will fit. I am addressing the angle of the eyelets on the Vapor vs the angle of the eyelets on the Supreme. The deeper angle of the Vapor eyelets allows for more forward flex while the traditional boot cut angle of the Supreme brings more of the skate over your foot. Think how much knee bend and waist bend an NHLer uses stride after stride and the pressure he puts on forward momentum on his boots. Is it any wonder 50% are in Vapors? Not really. Choose the skate for fit, not weight. Simple stuff, really.

I totally agree with this. I spent 3 years working at a local shop and Im still in good with the owner and he says that kids are always asking which skate is the lightest, blah blah blah. However comfort is paramount. I tried the Synergy 1500 c's in a size 7.5 a few years back, and yeah they were light, but they killed my feet. So in the end, even though I got a crazy deal on them, and they were fairly light, they were shelved and sold off after 7 mens league games.

[Alan 0]

Actually, no...

When the 1052 came out in 2000 and they deviated from that fit, less and less players wore it and they never went back to that fit. That's why you saw guys like Jovanovski who was in 752s for a VERY LONG time, and obv the Modanos, Kovalevs and Chelioses of the world...

:(

On the plus side, I just got my Tacks sharpened and baked. B)

I can't wait until hockey tomorrow night!!!

[ahbroody 1]

Oh yeah, it's Bauer's fault the industry is such a mess!!? Give me a break. This stuff is classic Graduate Business School case study example of two companies headed in different directions.

I didnt say that infact I already said what u just repeated

Some of us are arguing that the slight fit improvements make a less durable skate. Its the economic model though. Who wants to make a skate that will last. The company looses too much money that way. You need an angle and to hype it up as being a game changer even though its not. Lets be honest.

There are a number of different points everyone has brought up. The issue of skate weight gets way too much attention. The issue should be fit. Yes, Pat Marleau can skate like the wind in those diesel 9K Pump Trucks. That is because the skates fit him properly and fit him the best. Vapor owns 50% of the NHL, not because it is light, but because it fits the player properly. An NHL player will always go with fit over weight in skate selection(Unless you are Sidney Crosby and you are stuck in 9K Pumps regardless of fit because you have this damned endorsement contract). The consumer at the shop gets too excited about weight and wants what is lightest. Whenever a person asks me the difference between Vapor and Supreme, I start with how the skate is built and how it will fit. I am addressing the angle of the eyelets on the Vapor vs the angle of the eyelets on the Supreme. The deeper angle of the Vapor eyelets allows for more forward flex while the traditional boot cut angle of the Supreme brings more of the skate over your foot. Think how much knee bend and waist bend an NHLer uses stride after stride and the pressure he puts on forward momentum on his boots. Is it any wonder 50% are in Vapors? Not really. Choose the skate for fit, not weight. Simple stuff, really.

That was why I pointed out Patty M repeatedly for the past page and a half and made mention of my toddler and others made the same comments as to fit and why we liked the tacks. Fit has more to do with speed and skating then weight. If not how did players skate so fast before and still now when not using supremes or U+ or S15. I will sacrafice some oz and the one series tech for a skate that feels comfortable to me and allows me to focus on skating. Weight is a great marketing gimmic as I already stated, but the cost increase and durability loss mean you pay more for less in some persons eyes who are focused on comfort. the thermo mold concept of the one series etc is also kind of in the same vein. If it was essential guys wouldnt be hauling ass in skates like Graf, reebok. I just like a narrow heel, higher volume, no arch skates and the last gen Tacks were this to me. Plus its durable and when skating I dont feel they are holding me back and I would be noticeably faster in supremes. Hell I wouldnt last long in supremes the arches on those things scare me. The idea of spending a 600+ on a skate I would have to modify by shaving the arch thus changing the structure is just not exciting to me.

Yes we know its an older heavier boot. We get it. It fits some of us like a glove though and we are sad its gone forever. Y is that so strange? Y is this more a thread about bashing CCM for not making a composite boot fast enough then about a durable comfortable skate that fits some great.Some of us our sad the tack is gone and its not a bad thingwe are sad, nor are we stupid or should be made to feel that way in a sense because we just like a traditional boot that fits like it did. As I said I will likely be moving to grafs. The G35s I picked up are pretty nice and a close second to my Tacks

[Alan 0]

Yes we know its an older heavier boot. We get it. It fits some of us like a glove though and we are sad its gone forever. Y is that so strange? Y is this more a thread about bashing CCM for not making a composite boot fast enough then about a durable comfortable skate that fits some great.Some of us our sad the tack is gone and its not a bad thingwe are sad, nor are we stupid or should be made to feel that way in a sense because we just like a traditional boot that fits like it did. As I said I will likely be moving to grafs. The G35s I picked up are pretty nice and a close second to my Tacks

It's funny, the Pro Tacks I got today feel like they weigh the same as my G35's. They are probably heavier, but I can't tell the difference.

[DarkStar50 679]

ahbroody,

I am not picking on you or CCM. Christ, I'd like to sell the product but we agree it's just not the same anymore. The fact that CCM wasn't successful with their skate offerings is just poor luck. Mistakes happen in business and they cost the company.

All top end brand skates are thermoformable, whether it is Graf, RBK, Bauer, etc. You kind of lose me on that point. It is not a gimmick. It works, it helps shape the boot to your foot. We have to agree that is a benefit to a boot, right? You will get your next Grafs baked, right?

I am not trashing you or your Tacks skates. Hell, I am glad that they were out there for guys like you. I mentioned before I work in a shop that sold plenty of Tacks to guys with feet like yours. Now, yes, you're kind of screwed. Hopefully, the Grafs will work for you.

Of course, it would be stupid for anyone to buy a boot(Bauer, in your case) that does not fit properly.

When I comment on MSH, I often look at things from two different frames of reference, one, as a player and two, as a shop guy that has bought gear for the businesses I work at for over 25 years. It is when I see things from the shop angle that sometimes may seem off stride to others. Ask Defiant Sports, we all wish things were gung-ho for hockey like back in the early to mid 90s in this industry, but those days are over and will never be seen again.

[ahbroody 1]

Sorry. I know there thermoformable, but theres a difference between skates like the One95s, s15s, and the way the pumps and my g35s form or atleast thats what has always been explained to me. The later two the guys always said it was more to help with break in and improve fit slightly.

My understanding on the skates like the S15 and one95 is they are supposed to end up providing no negative space. This is not how the pumps form or my g35s. If the 9ks created no negative space there would be no need for the pump. Its close I am sure but not quiet the same. 'Just looking at the four skates shows different materials are used in construction. Of course the first two mentioned are hyped on the fit and forming to your foot while weighing near nothing. while the 9k is more of a you can get the extra tight lock through the bladders provided they dont pop after you get a decent forming by heat molding. Grafs they way they are protrayed to me by the retailers are that they are formable to an extent but not on the level os the one95 or s15 and are really more of a comfort skate. Ever notice how many refs wear the Grafs. As a season ticket holder to the sharks and centerice package subscriber I would say 80% of the refs I see when I am looking are wearing grafs. This shows its a comfort boot. To me my Grafs remind me a lot of my tacks as to fit and comfort weight. I see almost no refs wearing baures. Recently i saw one wearing one95s and was shocked well him and the guy wearing mission AGs.

Like I said most can see the business model, and while its cool to get the extra light and better fit I and my hobbit feet like the tack boot. I just cant explain how nice the last gen tack feels on my foot. With Bauer its to narrow and the arch kills, mission my foot would get a slight cramping and it seemed it was either a touch to small in the forefoot or toebox and would rub and rub. The Eastons I got cramping and while the padlock heel solved some of my issues I wasnt going to fork out that much on a boot that caused cramping. The Tack just fit right.

[Griff 2]

I called my ccm rep a few days ago to put out some feelers on custom skates for myself and was told that for customs in addition to the 9k and u+ that the last gen pro-tacks were also available. This is not going to be the cheap option but if you really, really want tacks there's the option.

[Alan 0]

Haha wow! I had no clue that they would still make custom pro tacks for people.

+1 on the expensive route though. But if you like em that much, I guess they are worth it??

[DarkStar50 679]

One of the reasons, besides comfort, so many NHL officials wear Graf is that referee Dan Marouelli has helped make Graf the skate of choice among officials through his connections in Western Canada with Graf. Pat Dapuzzo, former NHL linesman, is a friend of mine and has verified this information with me. The classic black look of Graf is a plus for officials, too.

[epstud74 24]

Not to mention that they are super comfortable. I have an old pair of Graf 502's that I still wear and might start wearing again on a regular basis.

[SirJW 207]

Speaking of Ref's is there any particular reason why they wear plain white laces or is it just tradition?

[Wolverine 0]

Here is some more "Tacks Porn" for ya! My 992's and the ever cool looking 972's:

Love my 992's and would kill for a set of new Pro Tacks in 7.5 D!

What I would like to see is CCM (Reebock/Adidas) offer a "Second Line" of skates that are NOT pumps, that fit well and look good. Actually, look a little more 'traditional'. Take that skate and put the "Tacks" nameplate on it!

I do NOT object for this skate to be created with new technology. Heck, I welcome the newer technology into the 'new Tacks line.' The Bauer Supreme & Vapor lines are constructed differently and have a different fit. CCM can and should do the same.

When/if they do this, throw on the Tacks name to tie it all into the past and lets move forward..... developing this second line of skate. Bauer continues to move the supreme & vapor line forward. This 'new line' can grow as well.

So, somebody start with that 972 image above and photoshop us a new skate please. JR can run it up the flag pole since he has the execs at CCM in his pocket anyway. LOL

[Alan 0]

I will admit that the 972's are amazing looking. White leather looks great on skates.

Which ones do you like to skate in more, the 992's or 972's?

[Wolverine 0]

I do not own the 972's. I just think they look sharp (I do wish main body of the boot was darker however).

[ahbroody 1]

I called my ccm rep a few days ago to put out some feelers on custom skates for myself and was told that for customs in addition to the 9k and u+ that the last gen pro-tacks were also available. This is not going to be the cheap option but if you really, really want tacks there's the option.

JR or anyone else can you verify this. It seems odd they would be making a 3 year old skate still on request.

Also what would this run 400-500? Wait could you get the Pro Tacks made with the white leather? That would be pretty damn sexy. Never mind. The Lace lock on the pros is diff from from the 992 and white that might not look as good.

Agree with wolverine if the 972 was the black body it would be better. Still pretty sexy.