Flyers Thread

[shooter27 116]

What is the story on Giguere out in Anaheim? He's clearly not their #1 any longer and I would think he's got a contract they're going to try to dump. I think I'd almost rather the Flyers go after him than Luongo. While Luongo clearly has been better recently, Giguere does have a cup on his resume and Luongo, in my opinion, hasn't been as good in the playoffs as he has been during the regular season. Is that an option for the Flyers?

[Bill_CIA 0]

The rumor is that Montreal wants to shop Price, and I could see the Flyers sending Briere and Lupul to the Canadiens for Price. I do not want Luongo. For $7mil I want a goalie with a proven playoff track record, which Luongo doesn't have, and probably never will. I also do not want Biron back. He has no idea about positioning. I don't want Giguere either, as he's a tid bit wishy washy for me. We already tried wishy washy with Biron, didn't work out so well. Also, the Flyers might try and make a move for Lehtonen, who I believe is a RFA this off season. I can see Nitty being resigned for the backup role.

Knuble needs to be resigned for a year at least because JVR, who would be taking his spot, likely won't be NHL ready until the 2010-2011 season.

The one thing the Flyers need almost as much as a goalie is a good stay at home defenseman, but I don't think they'll have the money to address that this off season. Perhaps next year.

Trade Jones for an equipment bag.

[EBondo 232]

NO to Carey Price. Price had one good season, and that was 07-08. He was more inconsistent this year than Biron, and trading Lupul and Briere away for Price would be bad news in my opinion.

[shooter27 116]

I'm going to agree with the ABSOLUTELY NOT sentiment about Price, especially at the price you mentioned. If you could get Price and dump Briere's salary, straight up, in the process I could warm up to the idea, but absolutely not if you're going to give up Lupul too. In reality, giving them Briere would be too much for what Price has proven, but I'd be ok with the deal because it gets Briere's salary off the books. Luongo or Giguere are much much better options than Price. Both of those guys have proven track records over longer periods. Personally, I'd prefer Giguere to Luongo because of his playoff history - carried the '03 Ducks to the finals and won the Conn Smythe in a losing effort and then won a cup in '07.

[JohnnyCanuck 0]

The difference between Luongo and Giguere is the The amount of cap space needed to accomplish such a trade that gets you your tender AND cap space in order to fill holes.

The Ducks cannot accomplish this for you.... And Luongo and Giguere are not even close to the same level of Tender, otherwise Hiller wouldn't be playing.

[Bill_CIA 0]

I'm going to agree with the ABSOLUTELY NOT sentiment about Price, especially at the price you mentioned. If you could get Price and dump Briere's salary, straight up, in the process I could warm up to the idea, but absolutely not if you're going to give up Lupul too. In reality, giving them Briere would be too much for what Price has proven, but I'd be ok with the deal because it gets Briere's salary off the books. Luongo or Giguere are much much better options than Price. Both of those guys have proven track records over longer periods. Personally, I'd prefer Giguere to Luongo because of his playoff history - carried the '03 Ducks to the finals and won the Conn Smythe in a losing effort and then won a cup in '07.

07/08 Season

SAV% GAA

Price: .920 2.56

Luongo: .917 2.38

Giguere: .922 2.12

Lehtonen: .916 2.90

Biron: .918 2.59

07/08 Playoffs

SAV% GAA

Price: .901 2.78

Giguere: .898 3.19

Biron: .904 2.98

08/09 Season

SAV% GAA

Price: .905 2.83

Luongo: .920 2.34

Giguere: .900 3.10

Lehtonen: .911 3.06

Biron: .915 2.76

08/09 Playoffs

SAV% GAA

Price: .878 4.11

Luongo: .914 2.52

Biron: .919 2.56

AGE NEXT SEASON, LAST SEASON PAY

Price: 22 $2.2mil

Luongo: 30 $6.75mil

Giguere: 32 $6.0mil

Lehtonen: 26 $3.0mil (RFA)

Biron: 32 $3.5mil (FA)

As far as Lupil goes, last season he got paid $2.31mil, but next season he gets paid $4.25mil. Personally, I'd trade him for an equipment bag. Four and a quarter million dollars will go a long way, and no way is he worth that much money. If we free up him and Briere this off season, thats $10.75mil you'd have if you didn't. If you send Briere and Lupul to Mtl for Price, you get a decent goalie for a bargain price, plus you've got $8.55mil to play with in the free agency, which would be great as far as signing a good d-man and bringing back Knuble for a season or two. Keep in mind that Price is only 22 this season and he's already putting out pretty decent stats. Luongos stats from when he was 20 and 21 weren't anything to brag about.

[Bill_CIA 0]

Or how about Briere to MTL for the rights to Komisarek + Halak?

EDIT: I'm starting to see the merits of why Lupul shouldn't be included in the Price scenario. MTL has a surplus of wingers, plus they've been dying for a number one center since 1997. If we send Briere to MTL for Price, we're still left over with $4.3mil to use for the cap, which could get us a serviceable d-man.

[shooter27 116]

I really do not think Price is the answer for anyone, period. Just look at the way he absolutely collapsed in the Flyers-Montreal series last season, you can put up regular season stats all you like, but those aren't the type of stats that the Flyers are looking for in a goaltender. They've had plenty of tenders that had great regular seasons and flamed out in the playoffs - see: Roman Chechmanek. Regaridless of my opinion on Luongo v. Giguere, I'd much rather have either of those guys, or Khabibulan for that matter, than Price.

As for the discussion about Lupul, when it comes down to it Lupul and Hartnell are basically the same player, they give you similar numbers of goals and points (+/- 5 points or so). The differences are: 1. Hartnell takes too many penalties and generally just comes off as a moron on the ice (see throwing his glove on the breakaway) 2. Hartnell makes $5 mill+. Granted Lupul making $4 mill is too high, its still less than Hartnell 3. Hartnell is at the point where he is pretty much maxed out , 30-30-60 is pretty much all you'll ever get from him and he's one-side of the puck player, not a great skater or very good defensively. I'm of the opinion that Lupul could go as high as 35-40-75 (and I've read several articiles that speculate Lupul could score 45 goals if he played on a #1 line, I don't necessarily agree with that, but nobody is claiming Hartnell has the ability to score 45 goals). Plus, he can do more for you all over the ice because of his skating, and he can definitely get you the 30-30-60 you got from Hartnell. He's a better skater, which means can play the penalty kill and late in games, both things Hartnell can't do because he's not a great skater and because, as I said above, he take stupid penalties on a regular basis. Thats why I'd rather have Lupul.

[Bill_CIA 0]

I really do not think Price is the answer for anyone, period. Just look at the way he absolutely collapsed in the Flyers-Montreal series last season, you can put up regular season stats all you like, but those aren't the type of stats that the Flyers are looking for in a goaltender. They've had plenty of tenders that had great regular seasons and flamed out in the playoffs - see: Roman Chechmanek. Regaridless of my opinion on Luongo v. Giguere, I'd much rather have either of those guys, or Khabibulan for that matter, than Price.

As for the discussion about Lupul, when it comes down to it Lupul and Hartnell are basically the same player, they give you similar numbers of goals and points (+/- 5 points or so). The differences are: 1. Hartnell takes too many penalties and generally just comes off as a moron on the ice (see throwing his glove on the breakaway) 2. Hartnell makes $5 mill+. Granted Lupul making $4 mill is too high, its still less than Hartnell 3. Hartnell is at the point where he is pretty much maxed out , 30-30-60 is pretty much all you'll ever get from him and he's one-side of the puck player, not a great skater or very good defensively. I'm of the opinion that Lupul could go as high as 35-40-75 (and I've read several articiles that speculate Lupul could score 45 goals if he played on a #1 line, I don't necessarily agree with that, but nobody is claiming Hartnell has the ability to score 45 goals). Plus, he can do more for you all over the ice because of his skating, and he can definitely get you the 30-30-60 you got from Hartnell. He's a better skater, which means can play the penalty kill and late in games, both things Hartnell can't do because he's not a great skater and because, as I said above, he take stupid penalties on a regular basis. Thats why I'd rather have Lupul.

Okay, Price "collapsed" against the Flyers last season? Big whoop. The kid was 20. Also, Biron was only marginally better in the 07-08 playoffs than Price was. I'd attribute that series more to the Flyers D forcing the Canadiens forewards into crappy shooting chances than I would to Price's goaltending. Besides, Brodeur tanked in the 07-08 playoffs, too (3.19 GAA, .898 SAV%). Does that mean he's not good?

Also, if you want a goalie that is capable in the playoffs, Luongo shouldn't be five miles within consideration. Giguere is a good goalie and I'd rather have him than Biron, but he's expensive. For about six million dollars I wan't a goalie that did better than .900 SAV% and 3.10 GAA over the 46 games he played last season.

Lupil is a good winger, but he's wishy washy as all get up. He might have the potential to be better than Hartnell, but he won't. Whether he's lazy or just inept I don't know, but there's a reason he was demoted to the 4th line for a time this year. He just doesn't bust his butt the way he should be. I think it's time to move his guitar playing, olde city bar cruising behind out to somewhere else.

And Hartnell will NEVER be moved, because teams already know they're definately not getting a bang for their buck, or even a half a bang a buck.

Price:

Year Team GP GS MIN W L T OTL EGA GA GAA SA SV SV% SO

2007-08 MON 41 40 2413 24 12 0 3 2 103 2.56 1282 1179 .920 3 Age: 20

2008-09 MON 52 49 3036 23 16 0 10 4 143 2.83 1513 1370 .905 1 Age: 21

Brodeur:

Year Team GP GS MIN W L T OTL EGA GA GAA SA SV SV% SO

1993-94 NJ 47 46 2625 27 11 8 0 0 105 2.40 1238 1133 .915 3 Age: 22

1994-95 NJ 40 38 2184 19 11 6 0 1 89 2.44 908 819 .902 3 Age: 23

Luongo:

Year Team GP GS MIN W L T OTL EGA GA GAA SA SV SV% SO

1999-00 NYI 24 20 1292 7 14 1 0 2 70 3.25 730 660 .904 1 Age: 21

2000-01 FLA 47 41 2628 12 24 7 0 6 107 2.44 1333 1226 .920 5 Age: 22

2001-02 FLA 58 56 3030 16 33 4 0 4 140 2.77 1653 1513 .915 4 AGe: 23

[mack 44]

Kind of hard to compare an NHL in '93-'94 to a modern NHL.

[Bill_CIA 0]

Kind of hard to compare an NHL in '93-'94 to a modern NHL.

Not necessarily.

[mack 44]

o rly? Tell that to the many 50+ goal scorers back in that range.

[Bill_CIA 0]

Well, yeah, I can't deny that there is a lot of truth to that, however you can also look at other statistics than how many fifty goal scorers there were in a particular season, such as average number of goals per game in a season, as well as the goalies shots against, saves, goals against, goals against average, and save percentage. I'll compare Brodeur's 93-94 season to Price's 07-08 season, as well as Luongo's 00-01 season just for kicks.

Brodeur

Year SA SV GA GAA SV%

93-94 1238 1133 105 2.40 .915

Luongo

Year SA SV GA GAA SV%

00-01 1333 1226 107 2.44 .920

Price

Year SA SV GA GAA SV%

07-08 1282 1179 103 2.56 .920

1993-1994 Season (Brodeur)

Total Goals- 7091 (Nine 50+ Goal Scorers)

Games Played- 2184

Goals Per Game- 3.25

2000-2001 Season (Luongo)

Total Goals- 6782 (Three 50+ Goal Scorers)

Games Played- 2460

Goals Per Game- 2.76

2007-2008 Season (Price)

Total Goals- 6847 (Three 50+ Goal Scorers)

Games Played- 2460

Goals Per Game- 2.78

Of course, mack, there's another few statistics which I'm hesitant to state because it give you a lot more credit than I have right now, but in the interests of impartiality and making friends I'll concede it.

In the 2000-2001 season, Luongo played against 50+ goal scorers four times.

In the 2007-2008 season, Price played against 50+ goal scorers eight times.

Ready for it? Drumroll please...

In the 1993-1994 season, Brodeur played against 50+ goal scorers the small, tiny, and insignificant amount of twenty-three freakin' times.

(I can find schedules out the wazoo for the last several years, but I can't seem to find the recaps for the individual games, so for the benefit of the doubt I'm going to assume that all the fifty goal scorers played in the games that I counted. Also, in the 1993-1994 season Detroit played against New Jersey twice, but Detroit also had two 50+ goal scorers, so I counted each Detroit game as two. I hate Brodeur, but I'll give credit where credit is due.)

So yeah, mack, you make a very, very valid point, and are probably more in the right than I am. That being said, you don't have to discount the comparison based on the nine 50+ goal scorers in that season, as you can also take into consideration the other statistics that I had mentioned.

[Bill_CIA 0]

Okay, all that stuff being said, I'm going to get back up on my soap box about Price. If I get annoying, just throw something heavy at my head.

Since I pretty much got owned comparing Price to a young Brodeur, I'll just try and find a way that Price would work here.

I think he's a good young goalie that's got a lot of potential. I also believe that it would be the BEST option to bring in Price AND a veteran goaltender to show him the ropes a little bit.

The way I see it we have two definate options, and a possible third option.

Option 1: We improve the defense so we don't need a goalie who has to steal games.

Option 2: We get a veteran goalie who can steal games and save the defense's butt on several occasions. Also, veteran goalie would need to stand on his head during the playoffs.

Secret Option 3: We get a good goalie and improve the defense at the same time.

(Note: Secret Option 3 only availiable when high on crack.)

[maxamillion 3]

Niitty can pack up his bad hips and have a good fall somewhere else before he's crap again for the rest of the year. Gustavsson would be awesome, but I think there are a few teams out there that have a lot more cap room to offer him. I've been hearing dallas and toronto.

[EBondo 232]

Also, you have to remember, with Price, Montreal was all over him last year when he started playing worse. Can you really imagine him doing any better in Philly, if he starts playing badly? Yes, he is only 22 years old, and that's exactly where I worry. He's 22, and he'd be dealing with the most intimidating fans in hockey (although I think Carolina might have something to argue with that statement now).

We want a damn championship. It's been over thirty years since one, and this whole getting four-eight wins from one is making us impatient. If Price has a year like he did last year, he'll be booed out of Philly as quick as he came in.

[Bill_CIA 0]

Also, you have to remember, with Price, Montreal was all over him last year when he started playing worse. Can you really imagine him doing any better in Philly, if he starts playing badly? Yes, he is only 22 years old, and that's exactly where I worry. He's 22, and he'd be dealing with the most intimidating fans in hockey (although I think Carolina might have something to argue with that statement now).

We want a damn championship. It's been over thirty years since one, and this whole getting four-eight wins from one is making us impatient. If Price has a year like he did last year, he'll be booed out of Philly as quick as he came in.

Yeah but who has Price had to mentor him? They just threw him in there and said have fun, tiger.

If we picked up a solid veteran goalie to show him the ropes so to speak I think it could work out rather well.

Honestly though the goalies availiable this year aren't exactly blowing my skirt up. I think this year I'd focus on the defense. It's an either or right now, either we fix the defense or we get a goalie who can save the day.

[sickwilly 37]

I really hope the Flyers keep Hartnell, because he's so funny to watch. I think 15 of his goals last year hit him or another player in the shin, rump, head, etc. then went in. Who else tries (unsuccessfully) to run a goalie in a shootout or throws his glove at a guy on a breakaway?

I'd swap Briere for Price, just to get rid of the contract (if that was an option). I think we've seen the best Biron can do, and Price at least has some upside. Not that it isn't great having Briere, I just think that he'll spend a lot of time on the IR as he gets older.

Don't like the idea of Jiggy, not at 6 mil a year. Totally agree with the post about him being outplayed by Hiller.... not unless they took on some of the Flyers' contract "baggage" in return.

[mack 44]

Bear in mind that Giguere wanted to stay where he's at because of treatment his son is getting. I don't see him going anywhere.

[S.Gagne12 1]

Hi Guys,

do you think maybe some Prospect Goalies can fill in and take the Job of the backup?

Maybe

Johan Backlund, G

Timra IK (Sweden)

or

Joacim Eriksson, G

Brynas Jrs. (Sweden)

Thanks

Bye

[shooter27 116]

From what I've read/heard Backlund is a possibility for the backup job, Eriksson is not - at least as it relates to next season.

[S.Gagne12 1]

Hi guys,

maybe some call me crazy but i think it would be a pretty good idea to sign Peter Budaj from colorado as a backup or even more. I know he hasn´t put up sensational numbers the past season, but i think that has to do with the Team. I think he could live up to his full potential here in Philly and he´s an NHL goalie who can really be the difference in some games what he has proven in several times over the past few seasons. Also i think the Av´s don´t want so re-sign him and raycroft cause they look up or a true No.1 Goalie for a long time also they have signed trevor Cann from the OHL to an entry level contract and i think that they take him as a backup or even raycroft maybe.

What you guys think about?

Thanks

Bye

[DEATHTRON 19]

That would put them in the same boat they have been in. They already have a goalie thats good once in awhile (in Biron), but they need an elite goalie...by either getting moving in the drafting and signing someone for the next 2 or 3 years, or make a big trade. Philly has a good team...just not great goaltending. Like I said earlier, they will eventually have to bite the bullet and pay the price for a top talent goaltender.

Zach

[S.Gagne12 1]

Hi guys,

i think it should be a good choice to sign Budaj cause he´s much cheaper backup than Nitty or somebody else.

Just a quick question: does anybody has watched this cause when i watch it i can not hear what gags says but i can listen to the in game sounds. Do you can hear what he says between the on ice sequences?

Thanks

Bye

[Orange&Black 1]

I think the Flyers have to ditch Lemelin too. How many goaltenders have to come in competent and wash out within two years before management throws his ass to the curb.

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