BladeMaster's alternative wheel dressing

[ReggieDunlop 3]

Anybody skate on BladeMasters new alternative’ wheel dressing? If so how does it compare to Blackstones FBV? From what I'm told BladeMaster is better doesn't introduce angles into the hollow therefore weakening the edge or losing an edge on skate to skate contact - BladeMaster uses a traditional hollow with a flat bottom - I guess you can still use the sweet stick on this as well if needed - Anybody share before I buy into a dressing system for my sharpener - thanks

[IniNew 53]

From my understanding, there is no way you can have a flat bottom without angles. Actually, that's the entire idea behind it. Cannot have a flat surface without an angle.

[ReggieDunlop 3]

Dual radius hollow - side edges are not of angles but traditional hollows but has flat part on the top of the blade

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[JR Boucicaut 3801]

Blackstone's research led them away from that shape, their studies found that the angle was a better shape than an arc.

Not to mention the method that BM uses will infringe on BS's patent, so it's just a matter of time til it won't be available. Plus, you can buy a FBV dressing system that will work on your BM.

[ReggieDunlop 3]

Thanks JR - but I think the patent is only on the spinner system Blackstone makes not the design - hard to patent a wheel dressing shape that has been around for some time - many companies in manufacturing metal objects have been dressing wheels with different shapes using similar tools and shapes - BM's form dresser is half the cost and the wheels are bigger and last longer than the BS dresser system - I'm looking at cost - I have skated on FBV and its comes down to the person doing the sharpening - first time I had it done loved it - skate were true and even - so I sent several pairs of blades to him and every pair came back with a flat spot or twist in it(when I put the blade in a T-square showed un-level in the front and rotates opposite way towards to the back) - I think the BM's version can be more forgiving to the sharpener and give the same speed results as the FBV

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

Trust me, it infringes.

And who sharpened them for you? I have a feeling I know why that happened.

And like I said, BS ruled out that shape because they were not getting performance benefits.

[ReggieDunlop 3]

Sent out by mail to a place posted all over this site as the best - the reason I went out and bought a machine to do it myself - the reason why it happened - not having the blade on the holder correctly - one side high the other side low - also I now have a forward pitch on one skate and a backward lean on the other - terrible - brand new velocity steel too- I guarantee there is no infringement - because the patent is on the dressing tool not the type of cut - funny how they both think they are the best type of cut - the purpose of this is to see if any has skated on both and give a players prospective

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

Thought it was holder issues on a portable, never mind.

Anyway, PMd. The patent is on the dressing method and their dressing tool infringes.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Thought it was holder issues on a portable, never mind.

Anyway, PMd. The patent is on the dressing method and their dressing tool infringes.

Lets be honest here....nothing wrong with a BM machine and BS has come a LONG way and come up with something amazing....what it comes down to now is really the two best companies in the business trying to out do each other which will only be better for the skater in the end from a rec level person to a Pro.....

So if BM does...I am sure they will try something else till they have something in the mean time enjoy the FBV.....

[Chadd 916]

Thought it was holder issues on a portable, never mind.

Anyway, PMd. The patent is on the dressing method and their dressing tool infringes.

Lets be honest here....nothing wrong with a BM machine and BS has come a LONG way and come up with something amazing....what it comes down to now is really the two best companies in the business trying to out do each other which will only be better for the skater in the end from a rec level person to a Pro.....

So if BM does...I am sure they will try something else till they have something in the mean time enjoy the FBV.....

I'm just happy that BM stopped trying to trash the concept and decided to try and do something productive. It was funny having their guys tell me it was "garbage" or "crap" while offering nothing new of their own. Given what I have read it will be interesting to see if the BM product can withstand a patent infringement challenge.

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

They're still trashing it though, that's the sad part.

[LkptTiger 1]

"Now that's jealousy." - Dave Chappelle.

[Chadd 916]

They're still trashing it though, that's the sad part.

I guess I haven't talked to any BM reps in a while, too busy with work.

[mckjim 2]

ReggieDunlop,

If customer support, being told the truth, and getting straight answers from a company are not important to you, then by all means keep dealing with BladeMaster. I have a BladeMaster machine and I have been lied to by them for over six months about this BFD dressing system. I have a portable BladeMaster and wanted to know about their "new" way of dressing the radius (a knock off of BlackStone FBV). It will be available next month, it will be ready after the next show, it is almost done with R and D, it will be shipped to NESE next week, and a few more I cannot remember right now. I even gave them a credit card number and was promised delivery in one week. Needless to say that one week came and went just like all there other promises. If the actual product is like their companies public relations, it will be terrible. I have purchased the BlackStone FBV and cannot say enough good things about the BlackStone company and there attention to customer support and detail. Whenever I was promised something, they delivered. I was also told by BladeMaster that the new BFD was meant only for table top machines and that they had to make some modifications for it to work on portables. The BlackStone Mag dresser will work on portable BladeMaster machines, is patented and in production being delivered as promised. What a joke it has been dealing with BladeMaster. You would think that spending thousands of dollars for a company's product would entitle one to some straight answers and results. If the way I have been dealt with about this BFD is typical then I agree with JR, buy a BFD at your own peril, when the patent guys get done, good luck getting BladeMaster to stand behind you when they cannot service the device or sell parts for it. I doubt they will be offering refunds!

[The Lord Flash 0]

I am now looking at buying the BM BFD 100 system and have the x-grind BM Portable machine. I bought the skate level guage from them which is magnetic and doesn't actually work on the table top of the portable machines (most inconvenient) If BS are making a magnetic dressing system for FBV that can be used on BM machines I am guessing I will have the same problem of not being able to clamp it to my working surface in front of the wheel? Has anyone bought an FBV dresser and used it on a BM machine?

Thanks for any help

From accross the Atlantic......................

TLF

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

Why can't you clamp it? What surface is your table?

Regardless, BS has two types of standalones - one that is magnetic and sticks to ferrous tabletops, and the other for ceramic tabletops that leans up to the front of the head.

[SolarWind 23]

I have skated on FBV and its comes down to the person doing the sharpening - first time I had it done loved it - skate were true and even - so I sent several pairs of blades to him and every pair came back with a flat spot or twist in it(when I put the blade in a T-square showed un-level in the front and rotates opposite way towards to the back) - I think the BM's version can be more forgiving to the sharpener and give the same speed results as the FBV

For what it's worth (not bashing, just sharing my opinion) I had the exact same experience with FBV (having skated on it for over a year). Unlike ROH FBV seems to require a very experienced sharpener & leaves very little room for error especially for shallow hollows such as 100/50.

So after suffering through the above mentioned issues I had decided to bite the bullet & went back to ROH and while it did take some time to adjust I'm not looking back now for 3 reasons:

1) availability, cost & quality of ROH sharpening vs. FBV in my local area (might not apply to others - see points above). bottom line is that was the deciding factor - FBV costs *2 as much around here & not nearly as reliable

2) rounded edges are much more predictable & provide increasing bite depending on the skate angle, unlike the 'claws' as someone referred to FBV. So stops, transitions etc are much smoother on ROH

3) the point that BM was making for quite some time now: arch shape is much stronger than an angular shape, which results in sharpening lasting much longer. Not to mention that with FBV it’s quite easy to ‘roll the edge’ on a skate-2-skate contact, at the boards or even when accidentally stepping on to something.

Again everybody is different & everything I said above is my personal experience. Also I suspect that all that is more evident (applies more) for shallower hollows (5/8 & up) since there’s already enough glide, but in return edges aren’t as prominent & so require more care.

On top of that after I switched from One95/FBV to TOs/ROH I’m actually faster now (due to skates probably) so speed isn’t an issue :)

[Chadd 916]

3) the point that BM was making for quite some time now: arch shape is much stronger than an angular shape, which results in sharpening lasting much longer. Not to mention that with FBV it’s quite easy to ‘roll the edge’ on a skate-2-skate contact, at the boards or even when accidentally stepping on to something.

BM also claims that the FBV spinners aren't accurate as the interior corners are rounded off, making them just like the BM corners. Like whichever one for how it works for you, but leave the marketing propaganda out of it.

[SolarWind 23]

BM also claims that the FBV spinners aren't accurate as the interior corners are rounded off, making them just like the BM corners. Like whichever one for how it works for you, but leave the marketing propaganda out of it.

maybe I shouldn't have mentioned BM in this case since it didn't really add up, I just read it there first

irrespective of that there's "no propaganda" in saying that an arch is stronger then an angle because it distributes the force evenly (physics 101) - this is why bridge support structures are arches, not angular constructions

[Chadd 916]

maybe I shouldn't have mentioned BM in this case since it didn't really add up, I just read it there first

irrespective of that there's "no propaganda" in saying that an arch is stronger then an angle because it distributes the force evenly (physics 101) - this is why bridge support structures are arches, not angular constructions

You missed my point entirely. BM made a lot of negative claims about the FBV, many of them contradictory. They just threw as much crap at the wall as they could, hoping some of it would stick. Either way, use the one you like until the patent issues are resolved.

[ReggieDunlop 3]

I am now looking at buying the BM BFD 100 system and have the x-grind BM Portable machine. I bought the skate level guage from them which is magnetic and doesn't actually work on the table top of the portable machines (most inconvenient) If BS are making a magnetic dressing system for FBV that can be used on BM machines I am guessing I will have the same problem of not being able to clamp it to my working surface in front of the wheel? Has anyone bought an FBV dresser and used it on a BM machine?

Thanks for any help

From accross the Atlantic......................

TLF

Not sure if I understand your question on board - Are you asking for a blackstone FBV spinner to use on a Blademaster machine - then yes it can be done without a magnetic base(using the skate holder) and also with a magnetic base not from BS - I have seen several postings on various sites with home made spinner devices that can work if you set up correctly. Are you currently skating on the form dressing, or the FBV, or just looking to see what's out there for your machine?

[SolarWind 23]

You missed my point entirely. BM made a lot of negative claims about the FBV, many of them contradictory. They just threw as much crap at the wall as they could, hoping some of it would stick. Either way, use the one you like until the patent issues are resolved.

yeah - I didn't really get your point Chadd since I was trying to strictly stick to my personal experience, and not bring anything more into the mix?

Not being close to the industry I wasn't even aware of any bad blood between BM & BS

Plus over years I've developed immunity to marketing crap - coming from an academic background where everything gets scrutinized I just read all this fluff, but then make my own sense out of it. So if it came out like I was supporting BM over BS because of some marketing spiel then it wasn’t the intent.

[dtaggs19 0]

Ive skated on the FBV and the BM BFD. The FBV was inconsistent and didnt last nearly as long. I have yet to have a sharpen that has been inconsistent with bm. i have used the X7 and X8 and prefer the X8. to my knowledge the shape that is being ground into the steel has been around for a long time. Blackstone was the first company to commercialize it. BM just took the idea and made it better in my opinion. I'm no expert but i do sharpen skates for a living.

To be totally honest are we really debating over this?

[SolarWind 23]

To be totally honest are we really debating over this?

apparently yes! B)

Despite your post count you've been here long enough to notice - absolutely everything gets debated here! :)

[shooter27 116]

While we're on the subject of flat-bottom cuts, has anyone been able to try out the new Z channel method and have an opinion?

Sorry if there is already a topic about the Z channel, I couldn't find it via search.