Graf Canada runs a shady business

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

Honestly, in my defense, I cannot determine that from your picture. All we see is a faulty mount. Good luck.

[Miseaujeu 291]

Wow...that's pretty bad. Not even close.

If he is going through with the lawsuit, then let them be. However, it can be repaired.

Tell you what, cover the shipping and I will repair them, free of charge. I hate to see someone get screwed over. I'd have to blast them with some heat...

JR

Sounds to me like the boots were cross lasted.

This happens when the side quarters are not placed correctly on the last before it's heated, lasted and stapled to the midsole.

No amout of heat or tweaking will repair this issue, once the side quarters are heated to the lasting temp. and formed, they won't move back, even if the quarters are p.u. and formo.

K

[Miseaujeu 291]

DJ

I was a "warranty guy" for a hockey company a while back during some quality issues the company was having. I dealt with a whole lot of crazies and some of our consumers who were very reasonable with our process. I found that those who threatened me for service or became emotional ("skates for my birthday") were trouble from the get-go.

Your best bet is to explain the situation with clarity, ask the person what their policy is and ask nicely if some rules can be broken if your product doesn't fall under the written rules. Ultimately, the "warranty guy" controls his budget and can make any one of his consumers happy by bending the rules sligthtly.

K

[djinferno 2]

DJ

I was a "warranty guy" for a hockey company a while back during some quality issues the company was having. I dealt with a whole lot of crazies and some of our consumers who were very reasonable with our process. I found that those who threatened me for service or became emotional ("skates for my birthday") were trouble from the get-go.

Your best bet is to explain the situation with clarity, ask the person what their policy is and ask nicely if some rules can be broken if your product doesn't fall under the written rules. Ultimately, the "warranty guy" controls his budget and can make any one of his consumers happy by bending the rules sligthtly.

K

thats what he said he would do from the begining..... i think that now with the last letter i received, the talking nice guy act is out the window...

[Scores 0]

The end result is that this makes my decision on Graf an easy one...pass on them completely...

Sorry to hear that TPS will fall under the same 'wings'...imagine the same people dealing with OPS breakage...HeyZeus!

[sikocycles 1]

Wow I was thinking about trying some G9s out for my new skate with a bunch of other but I am rethinking that decision. The last thing I need is bad CS.

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

Keith -

I know what you mean. And you know what, I've seen it on Graf skates before. The outsole looks like there's a bulge on the bottom...

[djinferno 2]

JR, can you post the pics of the repairs please...

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

You should unscrew the holder and take a pic of the outsole so people see what you mean. I totally understand what happened now.

[mm705 0]

yeah they are very much less than helpful no matter what you call for. last year i tried to order a custom pair to replace my old swiss ones but they were just like yeah well itll take 6 months or somethin outrageous like that and the lady i was talkin to obv had no idea what she was talkin about. then i ended up just gettin reg 705s which really had minimal durability even tho theyre an excellent skate.

[wristshot19 0]

That's a nice hack job they did to try to line them up. Even if they straightened the alignment out a bit it would probably move back after a while with those holes being drilled that way.

[djinferno 2]

That's a nice hack job they did to try to line them up. Even if they straightened the alignment out a bit it would probably move back after a while with those holes being drilled that way.

yep, all 8 holes are drilled that way... real ghetto

[hockeydude2003 0]

ok guys. in all honesty graf did what there taughty too do. they even teach that when you go there to realign there holders is to just use a bench mounted drill press to move the blades over because there belief is that the more holes that are put into the skate the weaker the outsole and insole gets due to the amount of holes. Now I know that graf aligns there holders too the center of the foot not the boot since everybodys foot is built differently. I can say some stuff about bauer but we are all human beings and I find it rough when people think people in the hockey industry or even sales are gods and can do anything or that everything should be perfect. well since skates are made by human beings some mistakes can happen. I ordered custom skates ordered in june and I got them in August. I was fine with waiting that long and ive seen a guy with bauer skates getting repaired and it looked butchered also they used white threading along the tendon guard and zigged zagged it. so each company will do a butch job to fix a skate. also Mike is a lawyer been in his office and i saw his educations. If you were whining about the alignment then your just crazy sorry man but whens last time you saw a properly aligned bauer skate?

[mack 44]

Okay that's just way too much sentence for me to go thru.

[jay 1]

ok guys. in all honesty graf did what there taughty too do. they even teach that when you go there to realign there holders is to just use a bench mounted drill press to move the blades over because there belief is that the more holes that are put into the skate the weaker the outsole and insole gets due to the amount of holes. Now I know that graf aligns there holders too the center of the foot not the boot since everybodys foot is built differently. I can say some stuff about bauer but we are all human beings and I find it rough when people think people in the hockey industry or even sales are gods and can do anything or that everything should be perfect. well since skates are made by human beings some mistakes can happen. I  ordered custom skates ordered in june  and I got them in August. I was fine with waiting that long and ive seen a guy with bauer skates getting repaired and it looked butchered also they used white threading along the tendon guard and zigged zagged it. so each company will do a butch job to fix a skate.  also Mike is a lawyer been in his office and i saw his educations. If you were whining about the alignment then your just crazy sorry man but whens last time you saw a properly aligned bauer skate?

The point was not that the holder was just misaligned but that the boot was manufactured incorrectly. Graf tried to circumvent just replacing the skates by remounting the holder which obviously isn't a solution to the problem with the boot itself.

[lee92 2]

i was very surprised this year from grafs quality. my lhs ordered a bunch of pairs of grafs in from alberta or saskatchewan (can't remeber which), and at least half of the ones with the cobras on them had bent/twisted/warped blades and/or holders. i had to return my 625's after i brought them home and was toying around with them and noticed the blades were warped. i lucked out tho in the end...lhs only had 703's left in my size so they decided to give me those for the same price i paid on the 625's...$370 cdn for 703's ain't too bad! plus best of all, no warped blades!

[djinferno 2]

The point was not that the holder was just misaligned but that the boot was manufactured incorrectly. Graf tried to circumvent just replacing the skates by remounting the holder which obviously isn't a solution to the problem with the boot itself.

Amen, I could not of said it better myself....

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

I can say some stuff about bauer

At least Bauer/Nike stands by their product...also, the problems that Bauer (and the rest of the industry) has had with alignment happen to skates with COMPOSITE outsoles. Remove the yellow-colored sunglasses...

[Cavs019 702]

For the record, a lot of the g series boots we have recieved in our first shipments had warped steel, misaligned holders, and an extremely sloppy bond between the boot and the new composite outsole.

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

Mass production. Plain and simple.

You never encountered these problems with Swiss Grafs...

[MDE3 0]

The last pair of 704's I converted from ice to inline, had the sole detach from the boot after 12 months of use. These were 2002 year model 704's..same skate essentially as the 703's but with a different leather finish. Never had that problem on the Swiss built Grafs..I converted at least two pairs to inlines, and purchased a third set used. Have talked with Graf Canada multiple times and their arrogance bleeds through over the phone every time..too bad..Have seen the same thing happen with a lot of companies who figure if their name is on their product, it must be heaven sent, and carry no fecal odor. Most of those companies ended up disposing of that division after years of steady growth followed by years of sales falling off a cliff..due to the lack of customer awareness. Basically these companies fell into the trap of believing their own BS.

As for BNH..the only experience I had was for a problem on a set of Quest skates (which version I forget) ..the right skate had the holder mounted where the blade was pitched "out" about 1/4" and my son could never push off with that foot....the dealer took one look and allowed me to return them with absolutely no problem.

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

Graf Canada is not a division of Graf Switzerland...the name is licensed.

[MDE3 0]

Sorry didn't mean to say it was..just used the word "division" in a corporate sense of identification....thanks for clearing that up....I have seen the same thing happen for two different companies which I worked for..so happy at their success, they became complacent to customers and arrogant as well....went from market leader to "also rans" in less than 5 years.

In one case the "division" as opposed to the whole coporation, was sold to a competitor after it's demise and simply dissapeared as a brand, and in the other case the company has been resold at a devalued price 5 times in the last 20 years. Both after being the undisputed market leader for their products.

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

Nah, just wanted to clear the air on that, it's not the same...

[#77 0]

So with all this slander going on, is Graf gonna sue the lot of us?

I don't like the way the President of a company replied to an unhappy customer. Whatever happened to "the customer is always right?" especially in this case where he IS right.

I was considering getting Graf skates, but after seeing that guys reply to a defective skate, I wont buy them.