Graf Canada runs a shady business

[mojo122 530]

After a long wait I finally got my G35’s. My no means am I an expert in quality control, but to the naked eye my skates look to be well constructed. This is my first venture into Graf only because they had a boot that fit my foot best. Hopefully I’ll make the transition smoothly. I figure the only question currently for me is whether I’ll want to change the t-blades out for another holder. Time will tell, as will it also answer questions about their durability and performance.

Having said that, I would have preferred to buy skates from a company that goes the extra mile for their customers and the retailers that push their products. I can understand any company’s wish to prevent frivolous warranty claims, but Sacha’s skate is defective. Graf Canada made an attempt to repair the skate, but not to the satisfaction of the customer in this case. If folks think that Graf Switzerland might intervene, I’d be happy to send a letter off as well.

[#94 3]

Interesting, Sean...the G series has been out less than 6 months...let's wait til then before we start making assessments.

Yes, my 500s were bent. KEEP IN MIND...I did have that skate for three weeks. When you saw that skate THAT DAY (which was Jan 17th), it marked the day after the skate was debuted at the show. Why yes, ol' Boucie over here pulled one out of his ass and got skates before they hit the market! I believe the blades were mounted by a certain product manager on this board even! He was alerted of the problem as well as another problem on the PITCH holder and they were dealt with and refined. End of story.

Nowhere in my posts have I mentioned that everyone else makes a perfect skate. Of course nobody does. It's the way that you deal with the retailer/customer in the end that makes a difference. I had a problem with SW a few weeks ago and the customer was very irate. They ended up screwing up and losing his custom goal pad order, but you know what? They gave him a few goal sticks for the inconvenience. Know what? He'll use SW again.

I know that BNH and Mission and CCM will take care of me and the customer if there is a problem. I don't get that feeling with Graf...I get stuck with an unhappy customer and I, as a dealer, am left twisting in the wind. Ah, that sure gives me a warm feeling inside...especially after it took them 4 years to actually give us the account instead of a guy who had a shop that opened for 15 hrs a week if you were lucky. All I gotta say is God help TPS...I'd hate to see how stick warranties are going to be handled...

I got my S500s 3 months before JR, and mine were fine. Never a problem with the skate whatsoever.

[djinferno 2]

OK lets make this clear, I never said that graf had a bad product, like others was already a 703 user after trying every other skate on the market (Almost) the graf boot fits my foot the best, this pair i got was to replace an old pair so I don't have a problem with the graf product....

My only complaint is the way I was treated when a problem occured, I was dissmised as if I should be lucky to use there product and I should feel fortunate that I can go the the store and pay full pop for a new pair.... Now I think thats wrong, verry wrong... now i'm obligated to find an other pair from an other companie to fit my foot and style when I'm so use to the Graf product and the Cobra aggresive pitch...

Now the quality of the G series I can't speak about but from looking at them, i feel safer going with a pair of 700 series that I know the quality already and look stronger....

[hockey_player_11 0]

All I gotta say is God help TPS...I'd hate to see how stick warranties are going to be handled...

What's happening to tps?

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

Merging with Graf...that was the merger I didn't want to mention.

[43%burnt 0]

is this the possible reason that my lhs is getting the run around about ordering a set of gloves for me? its been like three weeks, and my lhs can't even get a simple yes or no answer from them. sorry to get off topic, its unfortunate to hear about what happened with your skates djinferno.

[G.M. 0]

Merging with Graf...that was the merger I didn't want to mention.

Many things could come from this, however, I think this thread represents the minority instead of majority.

The flip side is that 1 person that is upset tells 10, and in this case, tells many more because of the Internet.

I think that things will get interesting if the dela goes through. If Graf's people are the one's in charge, and this is how their customer service is run, then, lookout. It obviously is something that starts from the top, judging by the email received from Mike Hill.

TPS has traditionally had fantastic customer service (IMHO), however, they are limited by their management, who can be very closedminded, IMHO. Proof of this is how they did not have new product at the WCOH and allowed Easton and especially Reebok to upstage them with their products.

Easton was masterful with the special colored Stealth's, and Reebok could not have made a better entrance than they did. Reebok's future could get interesting. Only time will tell.

[djinferno 2]

Heres my last e-mail in response to Grafs letter...

ResponceTo Mike Hill(President) letter

Hi Mr Hill,

Well if there was no valid claim, why did your warranty division alter my skates in the first place? not once but twice? Why is it that I got my hands on a letter to Duguay Sport in Hull from Todd Buhler him self stating that QUOTE "The only thing that was wrong with the right skate is that the blade was to far in. This caused the skater to fall front" END QUOTE. Was all that brought to your attention...

Secondly, I would really like to bring to your attention that It was Graf Canada told me to use this method cause they said it was under warranty in the fist place, I've been dealling with this problem since May 30th 2004, I've e-mailed you guys on multiple occasions, called on multiple occasions and been lied to on the phone witch to me is as you would put it, "quite uncalled for and frankly, quite immature". You guys have pushed me around and ignored me long enought, all this for a stupid pair of skates... I'm pretty sure that if I was a high profile star like lets say Jason Spezza, you guys would not treat me this way, we are talking about one skate, a right skate for a paying customer, so now what you expect me to pay for an other pair to replace your messup? IT WON'T HAPPEN!

And finnaly, I will persue this as far as I can take this even if this means losing money cause I feel like you guys are taking this opportunity to kick down the little guy and laught at him. You guys meesed up my skate worst then when I originally got em under WARRANTY and now your telling me that your not responsible (even after I offerd to pay to replace it) MY CLAIM IS VALID!

By the way, we live in a free contry CANADA where we can voice are opinion as we please, THATS ARE RIGHT! I will voice my opinion about GRAF CANADA and I will wear it on a jersey if I want to and theres nothing you can do about it.... I find your threats to be "quite uncalled for and frankly, quite immature" you stating that your a lawyer does not theaten me.

P.S: I also would be glad to meet you in court, to put a face to the people that are trying to screw a paying customer, I hope theres a way to make it happen!

[Chadd 916]

Did you bother proofreading that at all? Sending a bitch letter doesn't do anything to help your cause, so hopefully it made you feel better because it isn't going to change their mind.

[JGraz15 53]

That sounds pretty combative...also, before writing an email to a company president, you might want to run a spell check.

No trying to tease, just being honest.

[LegoDoom 0]

Paying customer? I thought they were a birthday present.

I'd be surprised if that helped matters at all.

[djinferno 2]

Paying customer?  I thought they were a birthday present.

I'd be surprised if that helped matters at all.

thats right paying customer, my brother bought me the skates, we have the receipt for it witch makes him a paying customer right?

It's not as if we got em for free or stole em, my LHS would not help me if that was the case...

I'm not expecting this to help matters, I don't think my cause will ever be resolved judging on the one and only response (The letter) I got back from Graf...

By the way, Graz, like i said in the past, lets keep in mind that my first language is french, I don't recall the president ever try to accomodate me with a french response.... hell the warranty division guy only speaks english and my LHS owner only speaks french so you can imagine what type of comunication they must have.... How the hell are you going to ask a store to sell your product when you can't even provide support in their language... real smart....

[djinferno 2]

Did you bother proofreading that at all? Sending a bitch letter doesn't do anything to help your cause, so hopefully it made you feel better because it isn't going to change their mind.

Call what ever you want to, just don't ignore the fact that theres some valid points like why they altered my skate and the fact that they aknoledge that there is a problem...

[LegoDoom 0]

It just sounds like you're trying to drive home the fact that you spent your hard earned money by repeating the phrase "paying customer". I know that your brother did, but it's not going to make the letter seem more personable when you're trying to portrait an image of your hard earned money spent when you already told him it was a gift. That's all I was trying to say.

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

Agreed, but at some point, he'll have to pay for a new pair of skates....

[Chadd 916]

We could get into why a certain subset of a culture refuses to speak the language of the rest of the country, but that seems counterproductive at this point.

They were wrong but at this point you have limited your right to complain because of the attitude in your communications.

[Justin 1933 134]

To help solve this issue, I will trade you a pair of S500 or S400's (whichever I have in stock) for your defective Graf skates. This will get you on a pair of skates that are not defective and we can end this problem.

Please send your skates to:

Justin Hoffman

c/o Mission Hockey

1801 South Standard Ave

Santa Ana, CA 92707

Please include your size in Mission Skates, as well as your address...

I am only doing this once, so other members on the board, please do not PM trying to do this with your skates.

Justin

[kovalchuk71 212]

Wow......thats really nice going out of your way to help him and heck its not even your company....:D

[whit64 0]

That is what I call "Customer Service"

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

Exactly...best in the business, my friends...

[LkptTiger 1]

To help solve this issue, I will trade you a pair of S500 or S400's (whichever I have in stock) for your defective Graf skates.  This will get you on a pair of skates that are not defective and we can end this problem.

Please include your size in Mission Skates, as well as your address...

I am only doing this once, so other members on the board, please do not PM trying to do this with your skates.

Justin

Jeez. That almost makes me feel bad for wearing Bauer all these years without even thinking of switching to Mission...Haven't even bothered to try the S500s on at all. I feel kinda guilty

[djinferno 2]

To help solve this issue, I will trade you a pair of S500 or S400's (whichever I have in stock) for your defective Graf skates.  This will get you on a pair of skates that are not defective and we can end this problem.

Please send your skates to:

Justin Hoffman

c/o Mission Hockey

1801 South Standard Ave

Santa Ana, CA 92707

Please include your size in Mission Skates, as well as your address...

I am only doing this once, so other members on the board, please do not PM trying to do this with your skates.

Justin

wow, I have to say, thats the nicest thing i've seen yet... two problems

I don't know my size in Mission S500 skates....

I wear 7.5R in Graf 703 and the only mission boot i use are Mission RPM Roller Hockey skates in a 8... I was told that the sizing changed over the years or is it different from Roller to Ice?

I normaly wear 8.5 US in Nike shoes...

If you don't know, I will go to a shop in my area that caries the skate and try em for size...

Thank you a million Mr Hoffman, I don't know why exactly you are doing this for me, it also makes me wonder even more about Graf and why they would not take there product back.... this is my third year in 703's for Ice skates for the simple reason that my foot can't fit in anything else and the skate actualy fit my skating style, as much as I hate changing....

In the end, it's not the money but more that as customers, we should have the right to wear what ever we want to and I feel that by acting this way, graf took that away from me...

[Justin 1933 134]

No problem...Just find out your exact sizing and send the skates to me...As soon as I get them, I will send out your replacements....

The more people who switch to Mission the better...Just my opinion :)

[QandA 0]

I got defective grafs as well, do I get a pair of free skates? Just kidding but that's excellent customer service.

[CaptainZbubble 0]

Justin, thats simply amazing! I just wanted to say thats one of the nicest things ive seen of from a hockey company. You and your company make awsome products!

Im just about to buy a second pair of M-1 pants........ :) . Even though im not being set up with the skates, i feel like you should be re-paid for the stuff you do for MSH.

CaptainZbubble