The 2009-2010 Suspension Thread

[Trooper 8]

But you can tell your players to raise their elbows and target people's head because that is not a punishable offense on the ice or suspended off of it ... got it.

Please, keep putting words in peoples' mouths, it makes it much easier to win an argument. I don't see where he said or implied that. We have established a million times in this thread the NHL is terrible at discipline and consistency, let it drop.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

So Campbell should have hot potatoed it because Ovechkin is too dumb to know not to hit in that dangerous area? Ok, got it. I'll remember that the next time I'm coaching.

"Ok, defense, here's the drill. If you win a race for the puck then do not, I repeat, do not try to make a play to maintain possession. The player behind you is going to hit you from behind if you do."

Players chasing the puck get put into the end boards all the time, sometimes it results in an injury and suspension, sometimes it doesn't.

But it happens frequently and 9 times out of 10 the player knows the hit is coming. That doesn't excuse what Ovechkin did, or what Randy Jones did to Bergeron, or what Koci did to Green, Avery on Letang etc etc etc.

Go to NHL.com, on the "plays of the week" click the top 10 hits. Hit #9, #3 and #1 are of players chasing the puck into the zone and getting hit into the boards by the trailing opposing player

Certainly you can pop off with a sarcastic comment but it does not change the simple fact that these things happen every game, and sometimes the outcome is unfortunate.

As Law Goalie said, the problem is still the fact that Ovechkin hit Campbell in a vunerable position, no one is disputing that. But Campbell while making a play put himself in a more vunerable position. Just because the fault lies with one doesn't mean prevention is also one sided

[Fire0nIce228 1]

But you can tell your players to raise their elbows and target people's head because that is not a punishable offense on the ice or suspended off of it ... got it.

Actually using your elbow to hit someone in the head IS a penalty, however targeting someones head with your shoulder isn't against the rules (not yet). If your trying to make (yet another) Cooke/Ovi comparison here, please stop, its not working.

By league rules Cookes hit WAS NOT a penalty. Ovechkins WAS boarding, which IS a league defined penalty. How some people can't figure this crap out is mind boggling.

[Law Goalie 147]

So Campbell should have hot potatoed it because Ovechkin is too dumb to know not to hit in that dangerous area? Ok, got it. I'll remember that the next time I'm coaching.

"Ok, defense, here's the drill. If you win a race for the puck then do not, I repeat, do not try to make a play to maintain possession. The player behind you is going to hit you from behind if you do."

I really don't see the advantage to simplifying this to Ovechkin's detriment, nor in overcomplicating it to his benefit (which is also happening from time to time).

Yes, when you're under pressure and at risk of being hit, you shouldn't try to make the same play you would if you had light pressure and no risk. That would be dangerous, just like trying to side-step a chest-to-chest hit and leaving your leg behind is dangerous (blown out knee), and trying to duck under a hit along the boards is dangerous (head crushed between hitter and boards), overextending to reach for a puck with an oncoming player (eg. Weight on Sutter), etc. It is often safer to take the hit than to try to avoid it.

Put it another way. I deplore hitting from behind, as should all right-thinking people. Nobody should put another player head-first into the boards, and nobody deserves to be put head-first into the boards (except Downie, who should be put head-first into a wood-chipper). That being said, I also acknowledge that turning to face the boards when near the boards, whether as a discrete act to protect the puck or in the course of cycling, is a widely-taught and commonly employed tactic. My problem is that many of the player do (and may in fact have been coached to) put themselves at risk by using this maneuver when contact is imminent. I call it "Stop Sign Syndrome." I would always argue that a player who decides to put himself at risk by turning towards the boards from a check should assume some of that risk. Where that changes is in a case like Bergeron/Jones, where Jones actually took advantage of Bergeron's vulnerability to make the hit even more devastating.

I see no reason not to take the disposition of both players into account. That, frankly, is why we're in total agreement on the Booth/Richards and Savard/Cooke hits.

[furlanitalia 1]

Actually using your elbow to hit someone in the head IS a penalty, however targeting someones head with your shoulder isn't against the rules (not yet). If your trying to make (yet another) Cooke/Ovi comparison here, please stop, its not working.

By league rules Cookes hit WAS NOT a penalty. Ovechkins WAS boarding, which IS a league defined penalty. How some people can't figure this crap out is mind boggling.

And, in fear of defending Cooke, he did contact the shoulder first. It was just very very minimally. This issue is dead. Stop defending Ovechkin, what happened was a penalty and it was dealt with properly. It doesn't happen every game, and there was a difference in the way he hit Campbell and Seidenberg hit Parise. Hopefully next season the league will start being more consistent.

Also, Downie was suspended $1,000 for the incident he pulled on Crosby. Not sure what that will teach him.

[Law Goalie 147]

That for about 1/600th of your yearly salary you can try to cripple a competitor.

I may have to try that myself.

[BenderHockey 127]

That for about 1/600th of your yearly salary you can try to cripple a competitor.

I may have to try that myself.

If you can carry that over to co-workers, sign me up! I have a hit list!!!

[chippa13 1844]

The fine limits in the NHL may be one of the biggest jokes going. I've never understood why the league doesn't push for higher fines when the CBA's are negotiated since fines are about as much of a deterent as a $5 speeding ticket.

[furlanitalia 1]

The fine limits in the NHL may be one of the biggest jokes going. I've never understood why the league doesn't push for higher fines when the CBA's are negotiated since fines are about as much of a deterent as a $5 speeding ticket.

I know. I'm sure a guy like Downie will start sending them cheques in advance if this is all the punishment he gets. I can just see it now:

"And there goes Downie with another vicious knee on knee, elbow to the head, check from behind. No penalty though, as he still has $4000 in credit on his account. Keep your head up out there.

[Ital79 0]

The fine limits in the NHL may be one of the biggest jokes going. I've never understood why the league doesn't push for higher fines when the CBA's are negotiated since fines are about as much of a deterent as a $5 speeding ticket.

I don't like fining the player either. Personally, I think they should keep the $1k fine and in addition, take $10,000-$100,000 (depending on infraction) off the salary cap for every misconduct/player suspension.

No money really trades hands...it's just teams have less to spend at the end of the season. That can hurt.

.........

Seidenberg on Parise;

That's a slough foot. Knee to the back of the leg and using and arm/elbow to trip the player backwards. It happens...yes? In this instance, was it 'accidental'...no.

So you have 2 refs; both miss the call. However, say Seidenberg's stick blade touched Parise's glove? I'd wager that the refs would have called that. And now you see the crux of the real problem in the NHL - terrible and inconsistent officiating.

I've said in a prior post; the whole system is broken starting at the top. The 2 ref system just means the miss twice as many calls and make twice as many bad calls. The recent rash of 'goalie interference' and waving off goals is a great example and an even better way for the NHL to make new friends.

Once the refs show some competence, and do so consistently, then the NHL should go about making rules changes. Until then, we'll have the same shenanigans we have now.

[hockeysc23 0]

Actually using your elbow to hit someone in the head IS a penalty, however targeting someones head with your shoulder isn't against the rules (not yet). If your trying to make (yet another) Cooke/Ovi comparison here, please stop, its not working.

By league rules Cookes hit WAS NOT a penalty. Ovechkins WAS boarding, which IS a league defined penalty. How some people can't figure this crap out is mind boggling.

did you choose to ignore the Adams hit? The whole point before was the NHL has some crazy philosophy that sometimes the injury matters and sometimes it doesn't.

If Campbell gets up like Parise then no suspension. Which is regardless of the penalty that was assessed durig the game which people have discussed ad nauseum.

[furlanitalia 1]

Irregardless - meaning it's worth regard?

[hockeysc23 0]

Thanks for being my external spellchecker while typing from my phone.

[Fire0nIce228 1]

Since you mentioned elbows and headshots in the post I was responding to I did not find it neccisary to comment on the Craig Adams/Ovechkin hit. For the record, yeah Adams should have been suspended for that just as Ovechkin was for his hit on Campbell.

How long and how many questionable plays will it take before it goes from "Ovechkin just plays hard" to "Ovechkin plays reckless" to finally "Ovechkin plays dirty" ? He's had quite a few incidents during his time in the NHL.

Heres a look

http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2010/03/16/the-ovechkin-reel/

Ovechkin leads all players this year with 3 game misconduct penalties.

From the Washington Capitals, the statement Alex Ovechkin issued on his two-game suspension for his hit on Chicago Blackhawks defenseman Brian Campbell: "I am very sorry that Brian was injured and I hope he is able to return to his team soon. NHL hockey is a physical game. We all play hard every time we are on the ice and have battles each shift in every game we play so we can do our jobs and win. As players we must accept responsibility for our actions and I am no different but I did not intend to injure Brian and that is why I was disappointed with the NHL's decision yesterday. Every time I have the honor to play for my team, I will continue to do what I have done since I was taught to play. I will play hard, play with passion and play with respect for my teammates, opponents and fans. I look forward to returning to my team and doing everything I can to be the best player I can be."

23.5 Fines and Suspensions - Stick Infractions, Boarding and Checking from Behind Category - In regular League games, any player or goalkeeper who incurs a total of two (2) game misconduct penalties for stick-related infractions, Boarding - Rule 42, or Checking from Behind - Rule 44, shall be suspended automatically for the next League game of his team. For each subsequent game misconduct penalty, the automatic suspension shall be increased by one game.

Brian Campbell is out until Late April or Early May.. He's now ended one guys career and another guys season.

[furlanitalia 1]

Thanks for being my external spellchecker while typing from my phone.

Haha it had to be done. It's not a word (just a redundancy of regardless) and you've been working hard to validate your points so I just wanted to give you a hand.

[Ital79 0]

Brian Campbell is out until Late April or Early May.. He's now ended one guys career and another guys season.

This is going to happen again. Someone will take matters into their own hands and administer their own justice to Ovechkin b/c the league cannot bring itself to do anything more than piecemeal.

[furlanitalia 1]

Not that the situation is funny, but the write up for that video is hilarious.

In the dying seconds of the game, Niedermayer viciously headbutts Domi's elbow. To make a bad situation even worse, Niedermayer then lays down on the ice for a nap, refusing to leave until they bring him a portable bed.

But I agree, how long until someone runs Ovechkin and all the fans that are defending him go crazy. No one is defending Matt Cooke, and just about every other person feels someone should take him out when they play the bruins next game. Some have even said Crosby should be targeted. So is it justified then that someone on the Blackhawks can take out Ovechkin as retribution when they meet next? Two wrong don't make a right.

[chippa13 1844]

I'm not sure anyone outside of Downie could be asshole enough to pull a Domi elbow like that.

[furlanitalia 1]

Well, they play this Saturday. Although it wouldn't surprise me if Downie targeted a guy like Backstrom or Green, and not Ovechkin. But hey, with him you never know.

[chippa13 1844]

Downie will probably go after tough guy Shaone Morrison.

[hockeysc23 0]

OVie has had bad hits against him. Same as many other Caps. Adams on Ovie. Briere spearing Ovie in the man sack. Koci boarding Green. The list goes on.

All I am saying is the NHL needs a firm policy on what a suspension is. I believe it a suspension should be for malicious or intential hits. Ie bertuzzi, chris Simon, etc.

But if the NHL wants to say the injury does matter. Then just make it consistent for all NHL teams. It's pretty obvious that ovie got suspended bc of te injury. His penalty during the game was sufficient or the bad play.

Edit: downie did go after ovie their previous game or 2 ago. He even got ovie to remove his visor as thy were about to go before brads jumped in

[chippa13 1844]

The injury does matter, I believe the NHL has stated that it is taken into account when discussing suspensions in the last couple of years.

[furlanitalia 1]

I think we even discussed earlier how the injury is taken into account. In a perfect world the call would be made on the action and not the result, but that just isn't the case.

[Fire0nIce228 1]

All I am saying is the NHL needs a firm policy on what a suspension is. I believe it a suspension should be for malicious or intential hits. Ie bertuzzi, chris Simon, etc.

But if the NHL wants to say the injury does matter. Then just make it consistent for all NHL teams. It's pretty obvious that ovie got suspended bc of te injury. His penalty during the game was sufficient or the bad play.

23.5 Fines and Suspensions - Stick Infractions, Boarding and Checking from Behind Category - In regular League games, any player or goalkeeper who incurs a total of two (2) game misconduct penalties for stick-related infractions, Boarding - Rule 42, or Checking from Behind - Rule 44, shall be suspended automatically for the next League game of his team. For each subsequent game misconduct penalty, the automatic suspension shall be increased by one game.

They did use firm policy in this instance. Per the NHL rulebook Ovechkin was getting his mandatory one game suspension for having two (2) game misconduct boarding penalties in a season. They probably tossed in a second game due to the injury, which, as noted, they have said they take into consideration. Either that, or since this was his third gamer this season they gave him another one because of that.

I agree with you, and its been beaten to death lately, that the justice system needs major work. Facts are any borderline play is going to get picked apart by the media, announcers, fans etc. and not everyone is going to agree on every decision. That is part of what makes MSH so fun. Its great to be able to come here and discuss, analyze, argue etc. about the goals, hits, suspensions, etc. within the game of hockey.

[LkptTiger 1]

Go to NHL.com, on the "plays of the week" click the top 10 hits. Hit #9, #3 and #1 are of players chasing the puck into the zone and getting hit into the boards by the trailing opposing player

As Law Goalie said, the problem is still the fact that Ovechkin hit Campbell in a vunerable position, no one is disputing that. But Campbell while making a play put himself in a more vunerable position. Just because the fault lies with one doesn't mean prevention is also one sided

We're not talking about Campbell getting popped cutting through the middle or smoked while admiring a pass, here. Or even being stood-up and ridden (Rode? Roden? lol) into the end boards by a forechecker. He was THROWN (arms extended)....FROM BEHIND....INTO THE BOARDS (at a ridiculously dangerous distance).....AT FULL SPEED.

I'm all for punishing a guy who puts himself in a position to be hit (a "vulnerable position"), but this wasn't one of those positions (Ovechkin was staring at Campbell's back all the way from center) and what Ovechkin did can't be classified as any sort of hit.