Offshore Manufacturing

[VakarLajos 5]

yep, all those Chinese packaged peanuts last summer were such a cause for alarm. Oh wait.....

[rmnyi 0]

In the 70s, Japanese-made cars were considered inferior to the American-made cars. Ford's catch-phrase was "Quality is Job 1".

I think that China's, Thailand's, Vietnam's etc. products have caught up in quality; it's just a matter of time before North American public perception will change and recognize this.

Depends on the product. There's a lot of reverse engineering going on when it comes to electronics and they user cheaper components so the quality isn't the same. If we're only talking about skates and the materials being used are the same then it comes down to quality control.

[Canuck 0]

Quality in China is always questioned thanks to their high publicity incidents like poisoning dog food, baby food and paint with lead in toys. I don't personally mind made in India, Thailand, or etc. But something about China and their continual abuse of human rights erks me. Obviously this is a personal belief. Unfortunately in this global market place its hard to completely avoid made in China products, but you can sure try...

[TBLfan 25]

Americans in general tend to look at other countries as inferior. Somewhere along the line patriotism became outright cocky in this country. There aren't many countries that shout in other people's face that they are the "Greatest nation in the world."

I'm a proud American but I'm also smart enough to know that it's not the race or location of the production that makes a product. A product is made great in concept and design, quality materials and quality control. I don't think Bauer can be faulted for a lack of any of those qualities. The only things I have seen that question any of those is QC, but that's pretty much only limited to holder mounting of the Vapor XXXXs. I haven't seen or heard much bad about their QC since. You can't say that about Graf, which is proudly "Made in Canada."

I also think too many people think about the cheaply made, bargain retail merchandise. Places like Walmart, Big Lots and pretty much any retailer looking to squeak out affordable, "Value" products brings down the reputation of Asian made products... but seriously, imagine what you'd get if you bought yourself a $5 shirt made in the United States... It probably would be as bad, if not worse than those made overseas.

All in all, there are a LOT of reasons why people see moving production overseas as a bad thing... Really, in this day and age you can't afford not to.

[fastbrother7 0]

This is an interesting topic. Its not just in hockey equipment either. A friend of mine owns a high-end denim and clothing store, and he said he noticed that one of the major brands he carries (7 for all mankind) recently went from being "made in the USA" to "made in Mexico of imported materials." But his cost is about the same and they still retail for $189+ a pair. He notes that the quality is the same. I cant say that if I owned a company and found a way to make what I provide for less and charge the same price without sacrificing quality i would'nt do the same thing. Not to be cut throat, but thats reality.

[rmnyi 0]

Americans in general tend to look at other countries as inferior. Somewhere along the line patriotism became outright cocky in this country. There aren't many countries that shout in other people's face that they are the "Greatest nation in the world."

I'm a proud American but I'm also smart enough to know that it's not the race or location of the production that makes a product. A product is made great in concept and design, quality materials and quality control. I don't think Bauer can be faulted for a lack of any of those qualities. The only things I have seen that question any of those is QC, but that's pretty much only limited to holder mounting of the Vapor XXXXs. I haven't seen or heard much bad about their QC since. You can't say that about Graf, which is proudly "Made in Canada."

I also think too many people think about the cheaply made, bargain retail merchandise. Places like Walmart, Big Lots and pretty much any retailer looking to squeak out affordable, "Value" products brings down the reputation of Asian made products... but seriously, imagine what you'd get if you bought yourself a $5 shirt made in the United States... It probably would be as bad, if not worse than those made overseas.

All in all, there are a LOT of reasons why people see moving production overseas as a bad thing... Really, in this day and age you can't afford not to.

Your comment about patriotism is a little over the top but I get your point. There is another aspect to this that we're all missing. It's not just production/manufacturing jobs that are being moved overseas. It's back office/administrative/accounting jobs as well. Its computer programming jobs & tech support jobs. At what point do you think we reach the "tipping" point? Sorry this is a little off topic but it's something to think about.

I went through 3 pairs of Bauer LE X60's. All 3 had problems with the holder not being mounted correctly. That's a QC issue regardless of where they were made but for those keeping score, they were made in China.

[rmnyi 0]

There is an underlying statement of bias, ignorance, and stereotyping when people continue to believe that just because a product is "Made in China", it must be an inferior product to one made in North America. JMHO.

Of course there's some bias. Do you remember when Ford had the assembly plant in Mahwah, NJ? The closing of that plant affected a lot of middle class families and that's nothing compared to what happened in the Detroit area.

[skooled 0]

coming into this topic late as I did, I think people are just looking at jobs lost (however few/many) rather than quality. I know I buy lacally made product and produce whenever I can, because it is keeping money in your own economy. but when I have to, I buy made in ____ product because I have no real choice. soon these countries will not compete, because their labour prices are rising, and they are having to push out a better quality product. soo, your beloved canada/usa will be making again, and people in china/thailand will be saying "gee i can't buy made in usa, that stuff is no good" swings and roundabouts people

[DarkStar50 680]

There is an underlying statement of bias, ignorance, and stereotyping when people continue to believe that just because a product is "Made in China", it must be an inferior product to one made in North America. JMHO.

Of course there's some bias. Do you remember when Ford had the assembly plant in Mahwah, NJ? The closing of that plant affected a lot of middle class families and that's nothing compared to what happened in the Detroit area.

I do remember the Mahwah Ford plant. However, now we know how mismanaged the auto industry has been for ever and ever. No one to blame but themselves. Also, are you aware of all the toxic sludge that factory left behind and dumped illegally in the Ramapo Mountains? I guess they should have closed it sooner.

[lefty57 0]

Your comment about patriotism is a little over the top but I get your point. There is another aspect to this that we're all missing. It's not just production/manufacturing jobs that are being moved overseas. It's back office/administrative/accounting jobs as well. Its computer programming jobs & tech support jobs. At what point do you think we reach the "tipping" point? Sorry this is a little off topic but it's something to think about.

Those computer programming and tech support jobs are also being filled here by the H-1B visa holders. They are willing to work for less, so why wouldn't a company hire them ?

IMO, the issue lies with corporate greed and American consumer habits. The better the bottom line, the bigger the bonuses for management. And as long as the majority of Americans

want the latest and greatest of products, the more beneficial it is to mass produce overseas at a fraction of the labor cost incurred here at home. I remember paying $45-50 for a pair of

Levis in the mid-80s and an equivalent pair now runs about the same. But is the profit margin the same ? I sincerely doubt it.

Some are my best friends are now out of work here, due to the moving of production facilities overseas. I personally would pay $5 more for a pair of jeans to keep these jobs here at

home. I'm not saying the quality of jeans would be better, but I would be happy that I was putting that extra money into our economy.

And why should we subsidize the economies of other countries anyways ? So the owners of these overseas firms can turn around and buy up all of the real estate here in the US ?

Let these countries come up with their own ingenius ideas to move their economies ahead ...

BTW, I tried to call my congressman regarding the H-1B visa situation, but was routed to India to someone I could not understand ...

[rmnyi 0]

There is an underlying statement of bias, ignorance, and stereotyping when people continue to believe that just because a product is "Made in China", it must be an inferior product to one made in North America. JMHO.

Of course there's some bias. Do you remember when Ford had the assembly plant in Mahwah, NJ? The closing of that plant affected a lot of middle class families and that's nothing compared to what happened in the Detroit area.

I do remember the Mahwah Ford plant. However, now we know how mismanaged the auto industry has been for ever and ever. No one to blame but themselves. Also, are you aware of all the toxic sludge that factory left behind and dumped illegally in the Ramapo Mountains? I guess they should have closed it sooner.

Well I guess those 3,350 workers got what they deserved. As far as the dumping goes, in the late 60's and early 70's Ford had state & local approval for the dumping. Unfortunately this was quite common at that time. Ford is definitely to blame but so are those beloved politicians that allowed it.

[Chadd 916]

Your comment about patriotism is a little over the top but I get your point. There is another aspect to this that we're all missing. It's not just production/manufacturing jobs that are being moved overseas. It's back office/administrative/accounting jobs as well. Its computer programming jobs & tech support jobs. At what point do you think we reach the "tipping" point? Sorry this is a little off topic but it's something to think about.

Those computer programming and tech support jobs are also being filled here by the H-1B visa holders. They are willing to work for less, so why wouldn't a company hire them ?

IMO, the issue lies with corporate greed and American consumer habits. The better the bottom line, the bigger the bonuses for management. And as long as the majority of Americans

want the latest and greatest of products, the more beneficial it is to mass produce overseas at a fraction of the labor cost incurred here at home. I remember paying $45-50 for a pair of

Levis in the mid-80s and an equivalent pair now runs about the same. But is the profit margin the same ? I sincerely doubt it.

Some are my best friends are now out of work here, due to the moving of production facilities overseas. I personally would pay $5 more for a pair of jeans to keep these jobs here at

home. I'm not saying the quality of jeans would be better, but I would be happy that I was putting that extra money into our economy.

And why should we subsidize the economies of other countries anyways ? So the owners of these overseas firms can turn around and buy up all of the real estate here in the US ?

Let these countries come up with their own ingenius ideas to move their economies ahead ...

BTW, I tried to call my congressman regarding the H-1B visa situation, but was routed to India to someone I could not understand ...

It's all about making the stock price go up after the next quarterly report and it has created an unsustainable economic model for the country.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

well, protectionist philosophies would fuck us over even worse.

[ktang 34]

In the 70s, Japanese-made cars were considered inferior to the American-made cars. Ford's catch-phrase was "Quality is Job 1".

I think that China's, Thailand's, Vietnam's etc. products have caught up in quality; it's just a matter of time before North American public perception will change and recognize this.

Depends on the product. There's a lot of reverse engineering going on when it comes to electronics and they user cheaper components so the quality isn't the same. If we're only talking about skates and the materials being used are the same then it comes down to quality control.

That's exactly what people were saying about Japanese-made cars in the 70s!

[Chadd 916]

well, protectionist philosophies would fuck us over even worse.

There is a middle ground, it's not like there are only two options.

[rmnyi 0]

In the 70s, Japanese-made cars were considered inferior to the American-made cars. Ford's catch-phrase was "Quality is Job 1".

I think that China's, Thailand's, Vietnam's etc. products have caught up in quality; it's just a matter of time before North American public perception will change and recognize this.

Depends on the product. There's a lot of reverse engineering going on when it comes to electronics and they user cheaper components so the quality isn't the same. If we're only talking about skates and the materials being used are the same then it comes down to quality control.

That's exactly what people were saying about Japanese-made cars in the 70s!

But the Japanese were all ready manufacturing smaller more efficient vehicles so when OPEC cut off the US in 1973, people had to start thinking more about MPG and less about HP. Detroit was not ready. I'm not so sure it was reverse engineering as much as it was better engineering. Regardless, the Japanese saw the opportunity and were able to get a foot in the door and never looked back. The goods news is that those companies are now assembling in the USA.

[ag12 0]

Some manufacturing is coming back.....

http://www.evolvingexcellence.com/blog/200...kling-back.html

[ddbowdoin 0]

for me this issue has nothing to do with being a proud American... I simply am going with the odds. Now, they are certainly cases where goods made in the US / Canada / Europe can have issues and faults but if you had to do a widespread comparison of goods you would certainly come to the conclusion that goods built here tend to be better made. As far as the Japanese go, they are completely out of the conversation as they have been producing world class goods in different sectors for many years.

As for the opinion that some blame the countries, I cannot disagree with that more. I never and will never blame a race of nation for anything regarding the quality of goods. They are simply competing with other manufacturers in their own nation to keep cost down, with the theory of maintaining the same quality even though that is debatable. The main problem here is with our society. It seems we have become so nonchalant when it comes to this issue... we just blame globalism and shrug our shoulders. I cannot believe that people will spend 800+ on products made in conditions that are tough to compare to anything made in the US / Canada / Europe.

I'm not a manufacturing expert here by no means, but I take care of everything I own and I can tell you how many countless items I have that are made in the US and Canada that I am still using after 5+ , 10+ years as supposed to crap made in Asia (minus Japan) that lasts no where near the amount of time. I as a consumer, would like a choice. Have a totalone (non custom) made in Thailand for 650 and have a Canadian made skate for 800. I'd gladly pay more without having to go through a complete custom process and wait weeks for skates.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

and under that genius plan you'd have to pay for training, equipment... etc. its not as easy as you think to jsut make a skate here and there.

seriously, the people that complain are the people who dont think it through. there's a reason you're not running a multimillion dollar manufacturing company.

[chippa13 1844]

Exporting jobs occurs because of two beliefs held in the western world, 1: things shouldn't cost that much and, 2: manual laborers (thanks to unions) should make a king's ransom and have the best benefits packages going. Well, since 2 prohibits 1 then jobs are moved somewhere else.

[rmnyi 0]

Exporting jobs occurs because of two beliefs held in the western world, 1: things shouldn't cost that much and, 2: manual laborers (thanks to unions) should make a king's ransom and have the best benefits packages going. Well, since 2 prohibits 1 then jobs are moved somewhere else.

So all of the white collar jobs that are being "outsourced" are because of unions? Incorrect.

[chippa13 1844]

No, but the same 2 part scenario applies. I just figured we were crying about the manufacture of hockey gear in this thread and that is a mostly manual labor process.

[ag12 0]

Exporting jobs occurs because of two beliefs held in the western world, 1: things shouldn't cost that much and, 2: manual laborers (thanks to unions) should make a king's ransom and have the best benefits packages going. Well, since 2 prohibits 1 then jobs are moved somewhere else.

So all of the white collar jobs that are being "outsourced" are because of unions? Incorrect.

Little known fact...TPS factory in Wallaceburg had union employees. One word...MESS.

Exporting jobs and generating cost savings (i.e. producing a product in a foreign entity) is tied to upper managements goals and bonuses. Consumers really don't have a say in the pricing. Have the price of top line skates dropped since they started producing them outside of Canada? Not a chance. Corporations will continue this practice because it benefits their bank account and execs bank accounts, not yours. US consumers will continue to pay top dollar for the latest technology built in low cost countries.

[chippa13 1844]

Here is a question, would companies have been able to maintain earnings levels without shifting production overseas? Yes, demand has a lot to do with pricing but companies have to find a way to contain costs in order to fit some profit into those prices. The easiest cost to effect is labor and that is how jobs wind up overseas, in an oversimplified explanation.

[starsfan71 9]

SWEDEN?! That Communist gulag?!?!

Golden B)

I knew that on MSH IQ is most of the time negative but still ....

From what I saw skates made in china are sometime better crafted than those from canada ... eg : one95 which is finished with piss.

"Made in canada" is purely a marketing argument, it is alomost in the feature list.. "yee my skates are made in Canada => hourray"

Since most of the time you don't even see the difference between chine-made/canada-made except on the sticker inside... no wonder Bauer decided to do everything oversee - cheaper to produce for the same quality and in the end more inches to push through their anus's customers !

Don't know if you are aware of this but lately everything your country do is helping china to grow up ... it's like if the mother/current superpower is feeding the baby/future superpower !

Conclusion USA is gonna fall down like Rome did <_<

Well this is another post made by you which would contradict the one you just made

I have mine (952) for more than 9 years now - still in good shape and no complains. They are very well made. Back in the days when a skate was made in canada, it really meant something..there's nothing to be compare with the new generation of high end skates made in canada but somehow less "well crafted" that those made overseas ... sad.gif

Do you have nothing better to do then run around and Bash on Bauer?