are there any Graf skates that do not have aggressive forward?

[dsearles 0]

I had a pair of Graf G35 skates and loved the boots but could never get used to the "aggressive forward angle". Note that, "aggressive forward angle", is Graf's description of the extreme forward profile of their G35, G5, Ultra G5 ( and various 705) models. Anyone who has had a pair of Grafs will knwo what I am talking about. If you have neve skated in Grafs, imagine putting a 3/8 inch lift in the heel of you skates.

I tried various remedies such as replacing the blade holders, adding lifts at the front section of the blade holder, and custom profiles. Nothing change the forward feel enough for me. I finally gave up and went back to Bauers (XXXX). I had the most forward CagOne custom profile available put on the Bauers blades and they feel great but are nowhere near as forward as Grafs. However, the Bauer boots are not nearly as comfortable as the Graf boots.

Ideally I would like to get a pair of Graf boots but have the blades feel like I was skating in Bauers with a forward profile.

So this begs the question, does Graf make any model skate that does NOT have an "aggressive forward angle".

[Rustyhole 1]

as stated in another topic but similar senario: couldn't you just reprofile the blades to give the same effect; prolly cheaper than another pair of skates

[Jarick 5]

Part of that forward pitch seems to be the tendon guard that's angled forward. I'm not sure you can completely get rid of that.

[dsearles 0]

The only question I am really interested in is "Does Graf make a hockey skate that does not have an aggressive forward angle"?

All the other information in my original post was background info. And, no you cannot simply have the blades re-profiled, the problem is the height of the heel relative to the front of the boot. If you look at a pair of G35 G5 or Ultra G5 skates you will see that the carbon fiber under the heel is at least 3 times as thick as the section that connects to the front section of the blade holder. Also, the "tendon guard" on Graf is different on each model and each model is designed to fix a different foot type. This is why Graf have the best fitting skate available. The tehdon guard has nothing to do with the angle of the boot in relation to the ice. The elevated heel is problem. The can seen seemly by putting a pair of Grafs next to a pair odf the same size Bauers and compariing the height of the heel of the boot. I am not trying to be rude but I was not asking for information on how to "Fix" a pair of Grafs that have an aggressive forward angle.

So just to very clear, the question I am asking is, does anyone know for certain whether Graf makes a top of line skate with a "aggressive forward angle"?

[OldNSlow 3]

The only question I am really interested in is "Does Graf make a hockey skate that does not have an aggressive forward angle"?

All the other information in my original post was background info. And, no you cannot simply have the blades re-profiled, the problem is the height of the heel relative to the front of the boot. If you look at a pair of G35 G5 or Ultra G5 skates you will see that the carbon fiber under the heel is at least 3 times as thick as the section that connects to the front section of the blade holder. Also, the "tendon guard" on Graf is different on each model and each model is designed to fix a different foot type. This is why Graf have the best fitting skate available. The tehdon guard has nothing to do with the angle of the boot in relation to the ice. The elevated heel is problem. The can seen seemly by putting a pair of Grafs next to a pair odf the same size Bauers and compariing the height of the heel of the boot. I am not trying to be rude but I was not asking for information on how to "Fix" a pair of Grafs that have an aggressive forward angle.

So just to very clear, the question I am asking is, does anyone know for certain whether Graf makes a top of line skate with a "aggressive forward angle"?

Keep in mind that people are trying to help you, even if you find a reply frustrating.

To answer your one and only question, I don't think Graf makes any boot that is not aggressively forward. I have had various Graf skates and recently tried on almost every Graf type -- all were forward.

If I were you, I would change .........

[jsykes 35]

All their skates are designed to fit different feet. They general position and design of the boot will be the same. They have figured out a design of boot and blade that they think works, they just massage each boot to allow a different kind of foot to fit in it.

That is what I've found. Maybe some of their cheap skates are less aggressive since they are designed for a less aggressive skater, but all the Ultras should be similar.

That said, I've put mine up against some other boots I've had and the angle of the footbed does not seem that different, only the pitch of the holder.

[duch 0]

From what I have read so far, my advice is also change to another skate brand. I don't believe your going to completely rid yourself of the forward contour just because that's the way the skate is built to perform. Grafs aren't for everyone and it looks like your that person.

[SolarWind 23]

there was a similar topic just recently...

I was under the impression (never having even tried Grafs) that the pitch is coming from Cobra holders, and so by simply swapping Cobras with TUUK the problem goes away?

[OldNSlow 3]

there was a similar topic just recently...

I was under the impression (never having even tried Grafs) that the pitch is coming from Cobra holders, and so by simply swapping Cobras with TUUK the problem goes away?

That is not correct. The Graf boot has a forward positioning. The Cobra steel is also forward pitched. This is a common misconception with Graf skates and I don't know why Graf doesn't do a better job educating consumers. You can change the pitch of the steel but, obviously, not the boot (you can try lifts of course).

Personally, I like the forward stance of the boot sitting on a neutral pitch.

[aal 3]

I had g35's. I now have g3's. I found the g35's more agressivley pitched forward. The g3's still are a little forward for my liking.

[epstud74 24]

I still do not understand why some people have such issues with their skates. The Vapor XXX and X60 has an aggressive pitch as well. Maybe bending your knees more when you skate will help? How long have you been skating?

[Chadd 916]

The only question I am really interested in is "Does Graf make a hockey skate that does not have an aggressive forward angle"?

All the other information in my original post was background info. And, no you cannot simply have the blades re-profiled, the problem is the height of the heel relative to the front of the boot. If you look at a pair of G35 G5 or Ultra G5 skates you will see that the carbon fiber under the heel is at least 3 times as thick as the section that connects to the front section of the blade holder. Also, the "tendon guard" on Graf is different on each model and each model is designed to fix a different foot type. This is why Graf have the best fitting skate available. The tehdon guard has nothing to do with the angle of the boot in relation to the ice. The elevated heel is problem. The can seen seemly by putting a pair of Grafs next to a pair odf the same size Bauers and compariing the height of the heel of the boot. I am not trying to be rude but I was not asking for information on how to "Fix" a pair of Grafs that have an aggressive forward angle.

So just to very clear, the question I am asking is, does anyone know for certain whether Graf makes a top of line skate with a "aggressive forward angle"?

Short answer, no.

Slightly longer answer, just about every boot on the market is at least somewhat aggressive in the boot pitch. The biggest difference between Graf and most other skates is the pitch of the steel in the Cobra holder. A different holder/steel combination or profile on a Graf can feel like any other boot/steel in terms of pitch.

If you have your heart set on Graf, you can get the results you want with some effort. If you don't want to put in any effort, then don't buy Graf. It's that simple.

[epstud74 24]

Short answer, no.

Slightly longer answer, just about every boot on the market is at least somewhat aggressive in the boot pitch. The biggest difference between Graf and most other skates is the pitch of the steel in the Cobra holder. A different holder/steel combination or profile on a Graf can feel like any other boot/steel in terms of pitch.

If you have your heart set on Graf, you can get the results you want with some effort. If you don't want to put in any effort, then don't buy Graf. It's that simple.

+1

I had Tuuks LSP2s put on my Grafs and while I knew it would take a couple skates and tinkering with the profile etc to get it just right I was surprised to find myself on my heels when I first skated on my G70s. Do not overcompensate for the supposed forward lean when changing holders. I finally settled on an aggressive pitch with the Tuuks and am extremely happy with the set up. It can take a bit of tinkering

[sitzlejd 0]

If you've tried all the other options (profiling, new holders, etc.) then switching brands is really the only option left. As far as I know a stock Graf skate is always going to put you on your toes. That said, I put custom+ holders on my Grafs and they are very neutral now. I even ended up having them profiled to have a very slight forward pitch b/c the stance was too neutral.

[Jarick 5]

Going from vapors to grafs I enjoy being on the balls of my feet rather than on my feet...feels natural.

[IceBuckeye88 0]

I still do not understand why some people have such issues with their skates. The Vapor XXX and X60 has an aggressive pitch as well. Maybe bending your knees more when you skate will help? How long have you been skating?

I agree. When I bought my Ultra G5's, I was trying on Vapor 60's at the same time. The pitch felt similar and quite honestly I think the 'aggressive foward pitch thing' is a bit of a myth and overstated. Graf's the only company that makes different skates for different feet. I like that approach much better than a 'one size fits all' approach of the others. But, to each his own.

[Chadd 916]

I agree. When I bought my Ultra G5's, I was trying on Vapor 60's at the same time. The pitch felt similar and quite honestly I think the 'aggressive foward pitch thing' is a bit of a myth and overstated. Graf's the only company that makes different skates for different feet. I like that approach much better than a 'one size fits all' approach of the others. But, to each his own.

Graf's biggest problem, other than quality control, is the fact that it is very difficult for shops to stock all of the models in all of the sizes. While there may be lot of different fits, you're still going to be hard pressed to find them all in a local hockey shop.

[epstud74 24]

Graf's biggest problem, other than quality control, is the fact that it is very difficult for shops to stock all of the models in all of the sizes. While there may be lot of different fits, you're still going to be hard pressed to find them all in a local hockey shop.

Even in a hockey savvy market like the Twin Cities, I can name very few shops that carry more than 3 models of the Graf line.

General Sports is THE Graf shop in town with pretty much all the Graf models being sold there. There probably is not room for another shop in town that can carve a niche like that either.

[aal 3]

I've had vapors and ccms in addition to graf, and always find the graf to have too forward a pitch for me. I've never had a problem with the pitch of the vapors or ccms. I like the fit of the graf boot for me, so that's what I've got now, but if I had it to do over I'd probably get a custom pair of vapors.

[Rocketking 0]

I have G7s and just replaced the Cobra with a Pitch 3.

It was exactly what I needed.

I have to admit that I do like the Cobra for weight but they do have too much pitch and so after 4 or so months I make the switch.

Personally I like the -1 over the neutral setting, but you can easily make an adjustment without having to keep regrinding on your blades (which I made 2 attempts to modify the Cobras).

[DetroitRedwings94 0]

no they definetly dont. All of their lines have a form of the cobra holders and its all the same pitch