Random observations about hockey

[greyraven8 9]

Another one:

Why do all Pittsburgh pro teams share the same color scheme? Kind of lame in my book. I can't think of

another city that does this. To me it's like parents who name all of their kids with the same sounding first

letter (e.g. Kaleb, Casey, Kelsey).

Out of cities with (or had) at least 3 pro teams, I can only think of Montreal - blue, white, red (Canadiens, Alouettes, and formerly Expos).

Don't play with many younger players anymore, but if I am playing with older players and there is someone with beat up gear I do keep an eye at him at first. With my old group one of the best players had very old beat up gear that probably could have fit into a small duffle bag.

Over the years I've noticed in the groups I've played with in both younger and older players it seems for scrub hockey more often than not if a player is wearing a NHL jersey with a players name on it he is more likely to be not that good.

[dsjunior1388 81]

Lakers/Kings then Raiders/Kings

And now the LA Kings and the Sacramento Kings look like almost clones.

[BlackIce 1]

Regarding gear and skill;

I noticed when I was a kid there was a lot less emphasis on gear because of the lack of product choice (compared to today).

I feel like only two kinds of people had top end gear, the people who had the money and the people who had it because they were elite players (needed the gear).

Back, then it was much more common to see a great player using whatever he could get/care to spend on.

Nowadays, EVERYBODY and their mother has top end sticks/skates regardless of skill. With so many choices, and the marketing of image hockey has turned into a fashion show.

Thus, I agree. When you see someone w/ beat gear and skills, they're usually older.

P.S. Hockey was much more popular in the 1990's, so more people wanted to play including the less privelaged. I had friends that played with 5030's until they were barely recognizable but where GREAT players. There I was w/ my easton ultralite and 752 Tacks, complete w/ stone hands and lead feet :)

Now, hockey is small agian and only carries an interest in the middle to upper-middleclasse and up.

Great post! I agree. When I was a kid the gear was indestructible. Meaning, it did last a long time. I would say that today's gear is made out of better materials that contribute to less weight, more protection and moisture management but generally doesn't last as long. I also agree that hockey today has become very elitist. It's unfortunate as you aren't really drawing from the kids with the best potential, you are really drawing from the kids who have daddy and mommy's money. When I was growing up there were a lot of inner city kids with a lot of skill. Today, the inner city kids don't even look at hockey as it's way too expensive, It's sad as this is a beautiful game!

[raganblink 82]

Today, the inner city kids don't even look at hockey as it's way too expensive, It's sad as this is a beautiful game!

So unfortunately true. I don't think though that they realize that while yes it is expensive with ice time and all that, that you can play hockey for a whole year under 1000 (with used gear ofcourse). When compared to basketball or football it is probably twice as expensive, as the camps cost a lot and the custom high end 200 dollar shoes they need are expensive. However it goes longer than them and ofcourse all of us on here will think its more fun.

But with LeBron and Kobe and TO and OchoCinco being the inner citie's role models (for athletics) its pretty hard to convince them to do ice hockey when all they see is upper class white boys on the ice. If they market Okposo and Kane (evander) correctly I think hockey could see an inner city boost in those cities, but honestly, I think it is going to have to be a black Gretzky who plays in the south to really see a difference in inner city hockey involvement.

[JR Boucicaut 3803]

The mets thing is true. Blue from the Dodgers, orange from the Giants...as well as their hat logo.

I'm not sure if it has anything to do with it, but the NY state flag is Blue, white and orange, so that could be the reason.

NYC flag -

[rangers1234 0]

When I was a kid, I didn't give a crap about the gear I was wearing. Ignorantly I prided myself on wearing less equipment and older stuff. No rib pads playing linebacker, No Throat Guard catching (lost my bottom teeth)..... Now that I'm an adult and spending my money, and thanks to this web-site, I have become a gear whore.

My point is that the bad adult players you see with the top of the line gear have it b/c they can, no rational reason behind it. I could be wrong, but there is still probably a good portion of kids that have the same old school mentality. And probably have parents telling them that it's not the equipment, it's the skater. And there are probably the same parents that were around when I was a kid who loose site of the whole point of sports, and want there kids to be pro athletes, going out buying there kid the best stuff money can buy. Or the dad that never shows up at games and practice and thinks buying the top gear will make up for their lack of participation or the ones that just don't get it, b/c they never played.

Regarding gear and skill;

I noticed when I was a kid there was a lot less emphasis on gear because of the lack of product choice (compared to today).

I feel like only two kinds of people had top end gear, the people who had the money and the people who had it because they were elite players (needed the gear).

Back, then it was much more common to see a great player using whatever he could get/care to spend on.

Nowadays, EVERYBODY and their mother has top end sticks/skates regardless of skill. With so many choices, and the marketing of image hockey has turned into a fashion show.

Thus, I agree. When you see someone w/ beat gear and skills, they're usually older.

P.S. Hockey was much more popular in the 1990's, so more people wanted to play including the less privelaged. I had friends that played with 5030's until they were barely recognizable but where GREAT players. There I was w/ my easton ultralite and 752 Tacks, complete w/ stone hands and lead feet :)

Now, hockey is small agian and only carries an interest in the middle to upper-middleclasse and up.

[fiimb 1]

So unfortunately true. I don't think though that they realize that while yes it is expensive with ice time and all that, that you can play hockey for a whole year under 1000 (with used gear ofcourse). When compared to basketball or football it is probably twice as expensive, as the camps cost a lot and the custom high end 200 dollar shoes they need are expensive. However it goes longer than them and ofcourse all of us on here will think its more fun.

But with LeBron and Kobe and TO and OchoCinco being the inner citie's role models (for athletics) its pretty hard to convince them to do ice hockey when all they see is upper class white boys on the ice. If they market Okposo and Kane (evander) correctly I think hockey could see an inner city boost in those cities, but honestly, I think it is going to have to be a black Gretzky who plays in the south to really see a difference in inner city hockey involvement.

you need your perspectives re-checked.

for one, basketball and football are popular among inner-city kids exactly because its affordable. think about what you need to play basketball, football, or even baseball. a pair of shoes, a ball, maybe a bat and glove. everyone has a pair of shoes, and you only need 1 ball for 20 kids.

hockey is the exact opposite. the reason you only see upper class white folk playing it is because they're the only ones that can afford it. you need skates, pads, a helmet, stick, gloves, AND ice time in order to play hockey. if your an inner city family who might have trouble paying rent, there is no way you'll even consider anything but street hockey (which can also be expensive). $1000 can easily be 1/20th of a family's net income.

ice time? 6am and after school practices? you need a dedicated parent to do that. fat chance any 2 income working class families will have the time for such a commitment. and no, $1000 won't cover a year, because the season's 6 months and you need facilities.

[raganblink 82]

it depends how much your ice time is... but, for beginning it isn't expensive. for our mites it costs 75 for all gear (used) and ice last time i checked was 500 for the year. And 20K for BOTH parents to be working? Where the hell are you from? 7.50 an hour job (minimum wage) with 40 hours a week is over 20K even after taxes. What your implying is ice that costs way over a grand for HOUSE LEAGUE, for mites and peewees, and parents that make 10K each even if they work full time. Who also wouldn't be able to drop them off to night practice. This simply doesn't exist. Sorry to sound like an ass but you need to recheck your math. There is almost no possible way two parents could not make 40K a year if they both work full-time. Unless ofcourse something illegal is happening in terms of wages or something.

I'm not saying that it would be as popular as bball or football, but as the hockey is for everyone program is intended, it is giving hand-me-down gear to mites and peewees so they can play house, if they become better and play select then ofcourse there ice is going up and they'd have to get better equipment to stand up to the abuse. I think this is what you think I was referring to, of which yes, this would be become more challenging because it would cost a couple grand a season and time restraints would become apparent. But with that also would come scholarships (which do exist for people who want to advance hockey but can't afford it) so they would be able to afford it. Just time then would become an issue. But when they start out ages 4-10 then cost or time really isn't an issue if both parents work full-time and there aren't alot of dependents.

[fiimb 1]

if we take some more realistic numbers, i'll try to make an argument that ice hockey is not a sensible option for many families, and thus the canadian tire commercial for jump start.

if we take a decent salary of $10/hr for 50 weeks working 40 hours. for now we'll assume both parents work at this wage and hours, though we should at least mention gender disparity. take canada's lowest tax bracket at 15% federal and 10% provincial (alberta), you get a net income of $15,000 per income (ignoring other deductions).

for expenses, we'll keep it simple with just rent, which is just over $1000/month for the average 2 bedroom apartment. yes, this can be cheaper, but in edmonton, for example, the cheapest i've ever seen was $700 for an absolute shitter. so right off, on a $30,000 net family income, you are left with roughly $18,000 for other expenses; transportation, utilities, education, food, clothing, insurance, entertainment, healthcare, and any other expenses a family might encounter (toothbrushes etc)

if we look at extremes, the lowest minimum wage in canada is actually $8/hr, working fulltime makes $16,640 after taxes is roughly $12,000. times 2 is $24,000. yes, partially an exageration on my part, but the point not so far off that the point is lost.

if we look at the simple cost of hockey, i'm gonna go with nice round numbers at $100 for equipment (being optimistic still, if you ask me), and registration costs for a 7 year old could vary but we'll say $500 for the year to coincide with your argument.

compound this with many other sociological factors that affect the lower income, including poor education, lack of marketable skills, language/communication barrier, geographical limitations, limited information (ie, lack of social network or access to the internet/internet competence).

if a family has 1 vehicle, or possibly no vehicle, getting a child to hockey practice becomes very, very difficult. even a 1 vehicle scenario is difficult if parents work irregular hours (which is more likely in low income families). we're still assuming both parents can get the full 40hrs/week.

i know for one, if funding programs like kidsport have significant issues funding low income families, that scholarships simply are not a reality for most families. and funding doesn't last.

$600 a year for a 7 year old and rising is not a sensible choice for these families, and you should know this is a reality for many, many people.

[JoeyJ0506 192]

When I was a kid, I didn't give a crap about the gear I was wearing. Now that I'm an adult and spending my money, and thanks to this web-site, I have become a gear whore.

Growing up all my baseball gear was used or lower-tier stuff because my family simply did not have the money to spend on new or high-end gear, and at 7-12 years old did I really need the high end gear?

Now that I'm an, "adult," and I fund my own hockey habit I buy what I want, and that happens to be mostly high-end/pro-stock equipment. Why? I personally find that a lot of the lower end gear feels cheaply made and I would rather spend my money on something I feel is a superior product. I'm not a great player by any stretch of the mind, but if I can afford nice gear at my own expense why not?

[iceholes19 0]

Growing up, I played baseball and football. The only things I had to buy were cleats and a glove; everything else was

provided by the organization (Little League and high school) for me to borrow and return at the end of the season.

Nobody cared about wearing used football gear, but it seems to matter for hockey gear, I don't know why.

One cool thing about hockey is that while it is inhibitive, cost wise, to get into the sport, once you are in, you can play

well into your 80's. That's not the case with football and baseball. Unless you're good enough to play in college and

beyond, your days of playing football and baseball are over after high school. Sure you can play flag football or softball,

but they're not the same. It's gotta be something about gliding on the ice which isn't as hard on the joints as running up

and down a field or court.

[chippa13 1844]

You can play baseball as long as you like. There are plenty of adult and over 30 baseball leagues around. As for the beating your body takes, the skating stride isn't the most natural movement on your body; knees, ankles, and hips can go through the years.

[raganblink 82]

Okay, we live in different worlds thus the disparity in numbers. I also had no idea on Canadian taxes, as I'm not up-to-date on their tax law. For my town, 600 is about the max a family would spend on hockey for a year for a 7 year old. We're probably cheaper than almost anywhere, as our cost of living is also significantly cheaper, a 1000/month apartment is ridiculously nice, 700 is the norm, and 400-500 is for shit-holes. So right there that would definitely make the difference for our family as they'd be saving for easy math sake 3000 a year, which would actually be more than that, so it would become more sensible for them to afford it.

I get what your saying and for the avg. american/canadian, it probably isn't sensible to spend that kind of money on your kid (unless its like his birthday and christmas rolled into one kinda thing). However I as a person are probably more optimistic for people and possibly further out of touch of reality with them in regards to money - this past season I made a little less than 6K (part-time student), and I do not spend above my means. I've been fiscally responsible throughout my entire life and never spend more than I made for the year, and try to really hard to not spend my paycheck even week to week, maybe 70-80% of it, but not to go past it. My bank account increased by 800 this last season from beginning to end. Conversely almost all of my friends blow their paycheck almost as fast as they get it, and are then broke until they get it again. Its even worse with parts of my family, who are over 50K in debt - people who are living outside their means. So as we come full circle, that family that makes 40K might spend 50K a year, so at that point they will either feed the hockey habit for their kid and go further into debt, or just simply don't to try to be somewhat responsible.

For your average family who doesn't have an ample amount (over 10K a year) of disposable income, hockey is not a sensible choice, however, if done right any family if both parents are working can afford it, however, most of the people live outside their means and cannot afford to spend that extra money. And 100 for used youth equipment? I knew Canada stuff was expensive but damn, it costs more than that? How much would new youth equipment cost? NEW basic yth is 250 here (head to toe).

if we take some more realistic numbers, i'll try to make an argument that ice hockey is not a sensible option for many families, and thus the canadian tire commercial for jump start.

if we take a decent salary of $10/hr for 50 weeks working 40 hours. for now we'll assume both parents work at this wage and hours, though we should at least mention gender disparity. take canada's lowest tax bracket at 15% federal and 10% provincial (alberta), you get a net income of $15,000 per income (ignoring other deductions).

for expenses, we'll keep it simple with just rent, which is just over $1000/month for the average 2 bedroom apartment. yes, this can be cheaper, but in edmonton, for example, the cheapest i've ever seen was $700 for an absolute shitter. so right off, on a $30,000 net family income, you are left with roughly $18,000 for other expenses; transportation, utilities, education, food, clothing, insurance, entertainment, healthcare, and any other expenses a family might encounter (toothbrushes etc)

if we look at extremes, the lowest minimum wage in canada is actually $8/hr, working fulltime makes $16,640 after taxes is roughly $12,000. times 2 is $24,000. yes, partially an exageration on my part, but the point not so far off that the point is lost.

if we look at the simple cost of hockey, i'm gonna go with nice round numbers at $100 for equipment (being optimistic still, if you ask me), and registration costs for a 7 year old could vary but we'll say $500 for the year to coincide with your argument.

compound this with many other sociological factors that affect the lower income, including poor education, lack of marketable skills, language/communication barrier, geographical limitations, limited information (ie, lack of social network or access to the internet/internet competence).

if a family has 1 vehicle, or possibly no vehicle, getting a child to hockey practice becomes very, very difficult. even a 1 vehicle scenario is difficult if parents work irregular hours (which is more likely in low income families). we're still assuming both parents can get the full 40hrs/week.

i know for one, if funding programs like kidsport have significant issues funding low income families, that scholarships simply are not a reality for most families. and funding doesn't last.

$600 a year for a 7 year old and rising is not a sensible choice for these families, and you should know this is a reality for many, many people.

[fiimb 1]

my $100 estimate includes sticks, skates, helmets, and whatnot. for used, this would mean essentially your skates were $20.

a quick gander to the canadian tire website shows a new youth protective kit going $80-130 not including a stick, helmet or skates. to buy new equipment can easily cost $200-$250. but i think thats enough for this discussion

as for guys with no skill wearing high end gear, why not? i know a ton of guys that aren't good looking but wear nice clothes. same thing right?

frankly, if i had the money, i'd buy nice gear for sheer comfort and enjoyment. using a light stick and proper fitting skates is simply more fun than skating on bricks. if anything it balances out the negative impact of being less skilled.

[rangers1234 0]

I've seen more injuries from softball then hockey. And the softball injuries are bad, like blown knees, balls to the head / face (pitchers mostly), ancles torn apart. Most of the fields are bad with big craters in the outfield, plus no one warms up and they go from sitting on their buts to a full sprint, then sit, then sprint.

Hockey has much less impact on the joints then anything involving running or skiing. If your skating correctly, the movement is very natural. The majority of injuries I have seen have been from the bad skaters that can't stop, or skate with their head down.

You can play baseball as long as you like. There are plenty of adult and over 30 baseball leagues around. As for the beating your body takes, the skating stride isn't the most natural movement on your body; knees, ankles, and hips can go through the years.

[chippa13 1844]

Hence, why I said baseball instead of softball.

[iceholes19 0]

Where I live, there isn't an adult rec baseball league within 100 miles. Believe me I checked. My wife's cousin is from Korea and

he's here attending college. He's not good enough to make the college team because he started playing baseball after high school

while all of his classmates have been playing since they were 5 or 6. He's distraught because he has resigned to play softball.

I'm glad that there are at least 8 ice surfaces within a 40 mile radius of my home and even more if you count the seasonal outdoor

rinks.

[BlackIce 1]

I remember when I was a kid, there were plenty of outdoor rinks. Many have since closed. Now, many communities have gone to the community centre model where children don't have too much access to the ice. Kids from all backgrounds played. A few of my friends were from disadvantaged or working class backgrounds like myself and played house league. Hell, we even had an outdoor house league. Some of my friends even played MTHL (today's GTHL) and were pretty good. We sometimes even lugged our hockey bag on the bus and took public transit to games. You will hardly see that today. Yes, I do know that there is the "Hockey is For Everyone" Program. But realistically, it's too expensive for the average family. My buddy's kid is in AAA and he pays big bucks for the season. (registration, tournaments, new gear, etc.) Maybe, I'm reminiscing too much about the days when I was a kid, but things have gotten out of hand. I would like to hear stories of top NHL players who were poor. I know there are a few stories but not many. I think maybe I might be hijacking here so I will stop.

[Law Goalie 147]

There are still a couple of outdoor leagues in Toronto - Rennie Park, for one - but they're hanging by a thread. A combination of warmer weather and municipal funding cuts has left them hanging. There are still a few GTA associations that quietly do a 'pay what you can' enrollment, but they get abused quite a lot. AAA, even AA is way beyond the means of most parents, as is any specialised instruction. I've done a fair bit of volunteer goalie coaching over the last few years that was specifically aimed at low-income areas, and it felt like a drop in a very dry bucket. There were also quite a few issues with equipment, whether sub-standard, falling apart, or just not sufficiently protective; lot of badly-bruised knees.

I have very little contact with the GTHL, but they seem to be run more like a shady non-profit than a youth association.

[tareatingrat 4]

Hockey is very expensive. There's no way you're getting into the sport, used equipment or not, for less than $300-$400. Pray to god you don't have a goalie.

Also consider sharpenings. That's probably close to $100 a season, depending on how much you pay and how often you get them done. I play all year, and I pay probably close to $300 (sharpening roughly once every week to two weeks).

Christ, for the cost of sharpenings alone, you could almost buy new equipment every year for most other sports.

As far as the crappy guys buying the best gear, well, it's usually adults who have taken up hockey later in life that aren't very good. They also tend to have disposable income, especially if they're playing hockey. I wouldn't fault anyone for having good equipment. At the same time, I've seen some awesome players who don't care what they use. Not something to judge anybody on.

[Chadd 916]

Just looking over the local youth hockey organization's 2010 program.

$50 (minimum) for try outs, $1100 a season for mites up to $3800 a year for midgets. That doesn't include equipment, gas to drive to games or hotels when you have back to back road games. You also have to pay for your jersey and you are expected to sell 30 raffle tickets at $5 each, or cover that out of your own pocket. Plus there are two additional unspecified fund raisers that you will be required to participate in, but you can buy out of them for $100. Plus a fundraiser for the scholarship program that you can't buy out of.

[tareatingrat 4]

^^^

And that's for one year.

That kind of cash would probably pay for a kid's enrollment and equipment in a soccer, baseball, football, or basketball program for at least five years.

[hamstercaster 2]

Just looking over the local youth hockey organization's 2010 program.

$50 (minimum) for try outs, $1100 a season for mites up to $3800 a year for midgets. That doesn't include equipment, gas to drive to games or hotels when you have back to back road games. You also have to pay for your jersey and you are expected to sell 30 raffle tickets at $5 each, or cover that out of your own pocket. Plus there are two additional unspecified fund raisers that you will be required to participate in, but you can buy out of them for $100. Plus a fundraiser for the scholarship program that you can't buy out of.

That's just retarded.

[hehatemefrisbee 0]

that sounds about right

[nickerjones 8]

Just looking over the local youth hockey organization's 2010 program.

$50 (minimum) for try outs, $1100 a season for mites up to $3800 a year for midgets. That doesn't include equipment, gas to drive to games or hotels when you have back to back road games. You also have to pay for your jersey and you are expected to sell 30 raffle tickets at $5 each, or cover that out of your own pocket. Plus there are two additional unspecified fund raisers that you will be required to participate in, but you can buy out of them for $100. Plus a fundraiser for the scholarship program that you can't buy out of.

my local rinks have a kids first program where they give you all the gear you need to play and let you try it for 8 weeks. If you like it and want to continue to play you pay 200 and get to keep the gear and play the rest of the season!