Bauer Recall Problems

[theWB 2]

I've seen this situation a few times with every major manufacturer. I think it would be a good idea if the manufacturer called or e-mailed the customer to let them know they are out of the exact stick that was sent back. They could offer to ship when it comes in or they could let the customer pick something else. It seems like a simple concept but I don't think I've ever heard of a company doing it. Just an idea.

Also, I've seen the "remove the warranty from composite sticks" discussion a few times on here and I had an opinion that I really haven't seen anyone else bring up. Obviously most of us on here are smarter than the average consumer when it comes to hockey equipment and a good portion regularly/exclusively use pro stock sticks. Personally, I think that the high priced retail sticks with warranties are what keep the price on pro stock sticks reasonable. Stick prices might be cut in half at retail if the warranties were removed but I'd be willing to bet that within five or six years, they would be back over $200 again anyway. The warranty does add a little peace of mind especially for parents not buying the sticks for themselves. Composite tennis racquets and golf clubs have warranties so I don't think they will be disappearing from hockey sticks in the near future.

[goaliemanshark 6]

Wow not only did you quote that entire post when you didn't need to, but you managed to DOUBLE post it! Congrats! :)

[NextBobbyOrr 0]

Wow not only did you quote that entire post when you didn't need to, but you managed to DOUBLE post it! Congrats! :)

Sorry dude, It's a late night. I have a research paper due in the morning, I shouldn't even be on here.

[Bnatural 0]

Most everyone who uses expensive sticks understands that they will break eventually, its just a matter of time. That being said, I think if you pay high dollar for a stick you should be able to enjoy its benefits for atleast 30 days. If your stick breaks within the first month of use I feel that the manufacturer would WANT to provide a replacement to prove their product is worthy of the price they charge and lasts longer than 20 skates. I have dealt with Easton's warranty dept a handful of times and everytime they have been more than happy to help, even going above and beyond. As long as you are upfront with them and they realize you are not trying to take advantage of a company's good will they'll throw you a bone. This is a big reason I continue to use Easton stuff, I know they stand by they're product.

[Zamboni 6]

Manufacturers have to know most OPS's they warranty within 30 days are not a result of an actual manufacturing defect. That's why I hate to read or hear of people taking advantage of sticks warranty by defrauding the companies. To me the 30 day warranty is more good will, you have peace of mind knowing the $200 plus spent on a kids stick will at least gurantee a months play.

The only thing I hate to purchase at LHS are sticks. Too many morons leaning on sticks in the aisles every time I'm in a store-seeing how far they can flex and hold sticks. Dads shopping for kids sticks, putting 200 lbs of weight on a junior 50 flex stick. Some poor kid then gets that stick for Xmas and it breaks 1st time out. Purchased an S17 Jr for my kid last fall he found 'dead', never shot well....wonder if it was over flexed by some gorilla and the shaft lost the ability to snap back.

From posts here I know many stores have signs and policies against flexing sticks-stores around me in Ontario don't bother. The stick companies should make up a nice sign, maybe a guy rifting on a stick with an X through it?

How About Those Habs?

[DarkStar50 679]

ragan,

Obviously you have a lot on your mind. This is a capitalistic free market system. There will always be dealers of hockey gear or any matter of retail product that come in small, medium, large, and now, super size. Each size dealer faces risk, just in different levels. So to say that the large dealers face no risk since "they have so much money" is false. They can lose it as fast as they earned it. Quite a few already have! Your idea of regulations is not what a free market system is about. Just like getting rid of warranties on OPS will never happen, this idea of regulations, etc. is never going to happen. The only thing the small LHS can do is take care of his own business to the best of his ability and not lose sleep over HG or HM. They are going to be there in the morning whether or not you get any sleep worrying about them.

[raganblink 82]

I've never been on that side of the fence (in regards to anything, really) and I guess never really thought it of, b/c I've never seen it from that prosepective. That and I was probably upset from last night as well, didn't help. However, after re-reading what I wrote about #2, could or should we see a system from companies that also ewarded dealers for being consistant rather than based on year-to-year $ amount alone? This atleast somewhat would help out the little guy maybe make it a litle higher up if it was not in place. Say if each year we meet or surpass a certain minimum level, and if we continue to either stay in this, or exceed it, over x number of years, than we'd get a little discount for doing so? Nothing much, 1-2%, however that would go a long way. But the rest of what I wrote in that is just tiredness BS really..

Im not worried about them, however, as most customers are informed about our pricing compared to theirs, however, what kills me is the un-informed, who assume they are better. We recently had a mom who hasn't been in here for years come in, look around, and was shocked that our prices we're on par with the net. She said a lot of the parents had just said we were over-priced, thus only got stuff online. It is this kind of un-informedness that hurts most. But not big online stores fault. I would also like to see maybe even a 2-5% increase in online prices rather than MSRP, but, I'm dreaming with that one.

Could we see along side with the 200 stick the same product with reduced price with no warranty? Or would that option just be reserved for pro-stock SMUs?

[chippa13 1844]

If people are uninformed about a store, that is the store's fault and not the consumer's.

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

Here's the thing - MSRP doesn't apply to online - it is MAP, which is minimum advertised price. MSRP is higher than MAP.

What that means is that any store with an online presence must list the product (which is usually top-end and the line below it) at a certain price. Now, that also applies to stores, however, as you said, they can put it at MSRP if they want to, which would be higher.

My local store here in Orlando has MAP covered on skates and MSRP or more on everything else - he believes in spreading at least 40 across each category. What is he getting killed on? Gloves, protective, and especially sticks. Gloves and protective, you can pull that, but in order to stay competitive, no way on sticks. When they are on the rack at $20 more than online, they're going to stay on the rack. (He has 320 SR OPS out on the floor including 87 NB ONE95s, and only 15 sticks at $79 and lower, AND backstock. Hmm...)

Now as far as the local/remote comparison - the online places have taken their risks as well. It's the same money, and they've taken advantage of the progressive discount system, as they have bought more to get a bigger discount. But it is all relative - I know their numbers, and to run a successful online presence, you must have everything, and you must have multiples. That's the risk you take. And I've worked on all sides of the fence - hockey shop in a small hockey area (albeit with an unlimited budget), mid-line hockey shop without an online presence in a large hockey area, and large hockey shop with an online presence in a large hockey area. The difference is knowing your role, educating your consumers, providing outstanding customer service and buying smartly. But as a buyer, you can't just sit there and play the victim and say it's unfair, because it isn't.

[raganblink 82]

Was that what it sounds like (saying the system is unfair to the small people)? Its not supposed to, I think, but at the same time it is, I just didn't do a good job saying what I wanted to say (notice the 600 word paragraph). And to prove how tired I was I was using msrp instead of map. But anyways...

I believe we do an outstanding job informing customers in store and those who are not (organizations, teams, parents, etc). However there are a couple people who have power in these things, who claim we're ridiculously over-priced. This is what upsets me, as this season alone we lost roughly 15% of all of total sales due to the simple fact that it doesn't matter how much we invested into these organizations, as the men who control it have a grudge against us for something (idk what) and who just say go online instead of us. HM/HG is our biggest competitor, who take quite a chunck of business away simply because of a few men.

How have your shops you've worked at improved their status (or didn't)? We're buying really smart, the only things we ever have extra of are jr sticks and pants, but, these two things fluxate randomly so its been very difficult to pin-point this. And this season we're out of bauer skates, gloves, shins and sr sticks. Only a couple of each item left. This isn't smart buying however, but, since we didn't have the money to buy more of this product in january, it has been a hard thing to try to fix since we cant. Basically though its the whole phrase, you gotta spend money to make money? We just got to spend more if we plan on making more, and just have to be really smart with what we do with that?

[chippa13 1844]

It is still ultimately the store's fault if potential consumers are uninformed. If word isn't getting out because the leaders of organizations are in the way then find a way around them. Do direct mailings, advertise in local papers or hockey magazines, have a presence at the local rinks.....etc, etc.

[DarkStar50 679]

Ragan

It sounds to me like your shop is doing everything they can and that's good. After a long, long time in this business as a buyer the one piece of advice I'll give you is you will never know it all. The playing field in hockey retail is constantly shifting. Your job is too shift with it and just try to stay ahead of those shifts a little bit. Also, at the end of the day, it is all about numbers. HM doesn't give a crap about product or passion for the game. It is just about numbers to them. Now think like they do about numbers and sell your service and passion in the shop.

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

Well, yes, that old adage applies, but you just have to know who you appeal to.

I hate throwing my LHS under the bus, but when you have 25 helmets out on display and 9 of them are red and 3 of them are blue, and there isn't an association wearing red or blue in your area, and you have 5 4-roll gloves on display in red, that's a problem. If you want the boutique look and have every color under the sun, that's your prerogative. But don't sit there and wonder why that product isn't moving, or better yet, why you have shoppers asking when the next blowout sale is. Don't get me wrong, they are doing well, but when you have a below-cost blowout sale, that isn't a good thing.

As far as your "overpriced" stigma, beat them with facts. If you are on par or better than online on items, market that. Put signs up by the product and keep it updated - show what they have them at and what you have them at. Then explain the convenience of buying it through you (getting the product immediately, trying it on, feeling it.) Use it as a selling tool. The "woe is me, I'm a small hockey shop and these big and bad online places are taking food off of my table" theory just doesn't work - like you said, there are a few loyal customers, but not everyone is like that. People will buy based on what works for them, wrong or not, not what works for the store. Most, if not all hockey equipment purchases are out of necessity - not everyone is a gear whore who needs the latest and greatest JUST to have the latest and greatest. So it takes just one instance of bad CS, or the illusion of higher prices to kill a small shop's reputation, and validate a purchase done online. And if they feel as if they have been wronged, don't think for a minute that they will not shop you.

Was that what it sounds like (saying the system is unfair to the small people)? Its not supposed to, I think, but at the same time it is, I just didn't do a good job saying what I wanted to say (notice the 600 word paragraph). And to prove how tired I was I was using msrp instead of map. But anyways...

I believe we do an outstanding job informing customers in store and those who are not (organizations, teams, parents, etc). However there are a couple people who have power in these things, who claim we're ridiculously over-priced. This is what upsets me, as this season alone we lost roughly 15% of all of total sales due to the simple fact that it doesn't matter how much we invested into these organizations, as the men who control it have a grudge against us for something (idk what) and who just say go online instead of us. HM/HG is our biggest competitor, who take quite a chunck of business away simply because of a few men.

How have your shops you've worked at improved their status (or didn't)? We're buying really smart, the only things we ever have extra of are jr sticks and pants, but, these two things fluxate randomly so its been very difficult to pin-point this. And this season we're out of bauer skates, gloves, shins and sr sticks. Only a couple of each item left. This isn't smart buying however, but, since we didn't have the money to buy more of this product in january, it has been a hard thing to try to fix since we cant. Basically though its the whole phrase, you gotta spend money to make money? We just got to spend more if we plan on making more, and just have to be really smart with what we do with that?

Ragan

It sounds to me like your shop is doing everything they can and that's good. After a long, long time in this business as a buyer the one piece of advice I'll give you is you will never know it all. The playing field in hockey retail is constantly shifting. Your job is too shift with it and just try to stay ahead of those shifts a little bit. Also, at the end of the day, it is all about numbers. HM doesn't give a crap about product or passion for the game. It is just about numbers to them. Now think like they do about numbers and sell your service and passion in the shop.

That is probably the best thing I learned about buying. You are exactly right, on both points.

[Chadd 916]

But don't sit there and wonder why that product isn't moving, or better yet, why you have shoppers asking when the next blowout sale is. Don't get me wrong, they are doing well, but when you have a below-cost blowout sale, that isn't a good thing.

If you own or manage a shop and you aren't putting the blowout product on ebay or another site you are out of your mind. The last thing you want to do is condition your in-store customers to expect a blowout sale. There are a lot of people that will simply wait for the next sale to buy what they want.

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

Oh, but that's exactly what is happening.

You have ONE95s left over, and the difference is the tongue and color...think they're buying your ONE100s?

[raganblink 82]

Well, yes, that old adage applies, but you just have to know who you appeal to.

I hate throwing my LHS under the bus, but when you have 25 helmets out on display and 9 of them are red and 3 of them are blue, and there isn't an association wearing red or blue in your area, and you have 5 4-roll gloves on display in red, that's a problem. If you want the boutique look and have every color under the sun, that's your prerogative. But don't sit there and wonder why that product isn't moving, or better yet, why you have shoppers asking when the next blowout sale is. Don't get me wrong, they are doing well, but when you have a below-cost blowout sale, that isn't a good thing.

As far as your "overpriced" stigma, beat them with facts. If you are on par or better than online on items, market that. Put signs up by the product and keep it updated - show what they have them at and what you have them at. Then explain the convenience of buying it through you (getting the product immediately, trying it on, feeling it.) Use it as a selling tool. The "woe is me, I'm a small hockey shop and these big and bad online places are taking food off of my table" theory just doesn't work - like you said, there are a few loyal customers, but not everyone is like that. People will buy based on what works for them, wrong or not, not what works for the store. Most, if not all hockey equipment purchases are out of necessity - not everyone is a gear whore who needs the latest and greatest JUST to have the latest and greatest. So it takes just one instance of bad CS, or the illusion of higher prices to kill a small shop's reputation, and validate a purchase done online. And if they feel as if they have been wronged, don't think for a minute that they will not shop you.

That is probably the best thing I learned about buying. You are exactly right, on both points.

Okay I understand what you are saying. However quite a bit doesn't apply to us at all, which is a good thing. Basically we just need to educate our target better and give them facts with numbers instead of facts with no numbers to back them up. And totally agree chadd on blowout thing, and any discounts as well. What we've been doing is discounts to the associations & HS teams (who pay nothing for this) (its only been 6%, but still quite a bit) and then come march-april have a big sale to try to sell everything possible, so we can pay off bills so we can get new gear in. I've seen this condition people coming in expecting something 5-15% below MAP, which is no way to run a business. So basically more of a tough love policy when it comes to pricing is applicable? Its not worth selling X60s at 550 if we can't sell them at 600, so just bite our tongue and have them buy x50s at 460?

[chippa13 1844]

Instead of offering flat discounts, try offering perks. What I mean is, rather than giving a blanket 6% off to associations, offer a sharpening card where every 8 or 10 gets you a free sharpening. Maybe do some kind of bonus bucks type of promotion where people can get a couple percent of their current purchase applied against their next purchase.

[raganblink 82]

IDK what we're doing next season, but it wont be that (flat discounts to certain people). We were thinking more or less a rewards program that would factor in frequency of purchase, amount, and skate sharpenings. What things do you guys offer? We typically give tape away for new expensive sticks as sort as a thank you, we have a fequency skate card, buy other than that, notta.

[Chadd 916]

Okay I understand what you are saying. However quite a bit doesn't apply to us at all, which is a good thing. Basically we just need to educate our target better and give them facts with numbers instead of facts with no numbers to back them up. And totally agree chadd on blowout thing, and any discounts as well. What we've been doing is discounts to the associations & HS teams (who pay nothing for this) (its only been 6%, but still quite a bit) and then come march-april have a big sale to try to sell everything possible, so we can pay off bills so we can get new gear in. I've seen this condition people coming in expecting something 5-15% below MAP, which is no way to run a business. So basically more of a tough love policy when it comes to pricing is applicable? Its not worth selling X60s at 550 if we can't sell them at 600, so just bite our tongue and have them buy x50s at 460?

1. If the organization isn't supporting you by pushing people in your direction or using you to supply jerseys or other equipment, I wouldn't be giving them a blanket discount.

2. You're usually better off selling the lower end skate at full margin than cutting your profits on the top level skate.