Season tickets as an investment

[goaliemanshark 6]

Im sure quite a lot of you guys here are season ticket holders for your local team. How much difficulty do you have selling your tickets?

My local team is the Sharks and basically every game is a sellout. The arena is almost always full. On top of that my parents who have been season ticket holders since the Sharks started (19 years) have a very high priority number so i can get some very good seats if i choose to do this.

Basically my question is if i drop 4 grand on 2 really good seats do you think i can make the majority of the money back, or even turn a profit?

I plan to get second row second deck. Face value of the tickets is $46 and I would get each ticket for $38.

Anyone have any advice?

[Ahriman 1]

I got a friend who has twins, timberwolves, wild and vikings season tickets.

He sends out emails, facebook announcements, posts Craigslist ads for games he cant make it to; and basically he's sick of eating the ticket prices and sending all the time to even break even on games he doesnt attend himself. Especially during the winter when he cant give away a timberwolves ticket he has to sell the wild tickets (which he'd rather be at) and watch the wolves suck. Not to mention the added costs of parking at each of those games.

Your milage will vary of course because its a different area, a different team and only 1 sport. However I think if you dont split the cost with a few dedicated people who are going to be using a fair portion of the tickets you're gonna eat a lot of the cost.

[armada 0]

If you ever end up purchasing the season tickets to the Sharks let me know please. I'm sure I'll snag a game or two off of you.

[goaliemanshark 6]

Haha maybe i can sell out an entire season just from MSH members!

[shooter27 116]

My family has had Flyers and Phillies season tickets for north of 30 years - we dumped Eagles tickets when they moved to the new stadium. Back in the day we used to go to almost every game, but we very rarely go to games anymore. However, we still buy the tickets and then resell them on StubHub. There are definitely a few games a year that go unsold, but in general we make at least the difference between face value and the season ticket discount on each game and more for popular games against rivals or other big draws. In the playoffs, profits per game go up exponentially. For instance, just between the past two World Series and this years Finals we made enough to pay for our season seats for the next 3 years. And that doesn't include any profits we made on the regular season and earlier playoff rounds. In general the level of profits earned is directly proportional to the quality of the seats that you own. It helps that our tickets are very high end (3rd row center ice behind the benches for the Flyers, 2nd row 3rd base line in the "Diamond Club" for the Phillies).

That being said, buying the tickets isn't really profit driven in our case. Eventually when I move back to town I'll start using at least some of the tickets myself, but since I'm on the west coast for the next few years I want to maintain ownership of the tickets, so thats why we keep buying them. I don't know if buying tickets is a profitable investment, but for us its a great way to have access to tickets when we want/need, without it ending up costing anything since what we sell basically covers what we go to.

[bostonjuniorblackhawks 1]

my uncle can get rid of redsox tickets like nothing. Depends on the area and how popular the sport is there.

[shotty 7]

i can only speak for my region and from my own first and second hand experiences, but it seems like the days of using season tickets as an investment are long gone. there may be the odd game here or there where i'll make a significant profit (vs. caps, vs. pens, special event nights) but other than that, people are very well informed on what tickets cost at the gate and should cost on the street. plus, there's craigslist. i can search any given canucks game for the duration of the season and there's 25+ pairs of seats for sale, with only a few idiots asking way above face value.

i've been an season ticket holder for a few seasons and before that, both my parents and my uncle were season ticket holders. i think my uncle turned a profit over one or two seasons, but he also had to give up some of the best games so that he could go to other games "for free".

now i look at it this way: i've got 41 games over 6 months. if i can hit 15-20 i'm happy. in the mean time, if i can give 5-7 games away as gifts or as favors, and sell the rest at $15-$30 above cost, the revenue generated from those 14-21 games that i sold will pay for the parking and snacks for the games i did go to, plus maybe a playoff game or two.

all that said, luxury or hospitality suites are where you'll make money.

[bostonjuniorblackhawks 1]

good way to look at it. If I had season tickets to something and kept 15 games sold the rest at face value, I'd be happy even though I wouldn't be making a profit

[chippa13 1844]

I wouldn't recommend buying season tickets as an investment. In the States you aren't allowed to profit off of your tickets unless you are a licensed ticket broker. Many teams will pull folks season tickets if they find them selling for a profit and if you do any of it on the internet then you are leaving a trail that can be followed in case you're one of the lucky folks the IRS decides to audit.

[adam14 182]

i went to watch toronto play the habs in toronto one game, it was sold out, and scalpers were selling 46 dollar tickets for upwards of 250 a piece.

[The Mafia Line 0]

I've been thinking about it for a few seasons now simply for playoff tickets. I go to about 5 games a year for a bit over face, but it's the playoffs where the prices go crazy. With season tickets, I'd probably go to a few more games, but if at the end of the season I only pay fair prices for playoff games, I'd be happy. Breaking even for the whole season would be a blessing. I'm not sure if either plans would work at MSG. If a Ranger season ticket holder can chime in, it would be great.

[shotty 7]

i went to watch toronto play the habs in toronto one game, it was sold out, and scalpers were selling 46 dollar tickets for upwards of 250 a piece.

thats the exception i was talking about. hugely anticipated games will net a return for investors. are those scalpers going to be asking $250 a piece when toronto plays atlanta thrashers, tampa bay lighting or florida panthers? probably not.

toronto is also an exception as a whole. when people come back from trips there, others will ask "did you catch a leafs game?". not so in places like san jose or even vancouver... where the arenas still sell out every night.

[shotty 7]

I've been thinking about it for a few seasons now simply for playoff tickets. I go to about 5 games a year for a bit over face, but it's the playoffs where the prices go crazy. With season tickets, I'd probably go to a few more games, but if at the end of the season I only pay fair prices for playoff games, I'd be happy. Breaking even for the whole season would be a blessing. I'm not sure if either plans would work at MSG. If a Ranger season ticket holder can chime in, it would be great.

it depends on the cost of the tickets and how many games you are likely to see.

to keep it simple: if STH pays $8200 for a pair of seats and goes to 10 games, they'd have to charge $70 over face value per game for the remainder of the season to break even.

[Chadd 916]

Don't forget to declare that income as well. ;)

[Fisticuffs 0]

Don't forget to declare that income as well. ;)

Meh, you can take the cost of every ticket you sell as an expense, and a portion of the remaining season tickets could probably be deducted...

[chippa13 1844]

The best you can do, not being a licensed ticket broker, is net the cost of the tickets you actually sell against what you make from them.

[shotty 7]

Meh, you can take the cost of every ticket you sell as an expense, and a portion of the remaining season tickets could probably be deducted...

even a losing business has to declare income.

[Jordan 13]

I live in Toronto and have a pair leafs season tix..12 rows from the glass in the corner. Can't imagine making money on them. First of all they are $400/pair per game.

Sure, if it's the Habs on a Saturday night and the leafs are having a decent season, that game could go for a $1,000 for a good pair. Try selling a a game that features a weak visiting team on a week night and I guarantee that they will sell for half of face, even thought the game is sold out.

It may be very different in your market, but with ticket prices so high here to begin with there are only so many people willing to pay a big premium for a mediocre game.

Now, if the leafs ever actually made a run for the cup, the prices the finals ticket would fetch would be astronomical, but I wouldn't sell those anyhow.

[shooter27 116]

Now, if the leafs ever actually made a run for the cup, the prices the finals ticket would fetch would be astronomical, but I wouldn't sell those anyhow.

Our tickets for this years finals went for 10x face value per seat, it would have been hard not to sell them even if I had had the time to get to one of the games.

[Jordan 13]

Our tickets if the leafs made the final would have had a face of around $3,000 per pair...don't think they would go for that kind of multiple...that being said, it's all a bad dream if you're a leaf fan like me! :(

[Fisticuffs 0]

even a losing business has to declare income.

You have to declare it, but here i the states you don't pay any taxes on it. If you lost money every year on a venture like this it would probably be treated as a hobby loss, which has no impact on your tax liability.

[Chadd 916]

You have to declare it, but here i the states you don't pay any taxes on it. If you lost money every year on a venture like this it would probably be treated as a hobby loss, which has no impact on your tax liability.

Our tickets for this years finals went for 10x face value per seat, it would have been hard not to sell them even if I had had the time to get to one of the games.

At rates like that, you will exceed hobby income limits.

[shooter27 116]

We definitely did, but the tickets are technically held in an LLC. According to our accountant, that means the LLC can incur the costs of next seasons tickets, as long as we pay them in full before Dec. 31. By doing so it reduces the profits of the LLC, and by extension its/our tax burden. The LLC idea came up after the Phillies went to the playoffs in '07 and we made big profits on the playoff games and wanted to figure out how to reduce the tax burden. The fun part of it is when we don't sell enough games the LLC actually incurs loses. And since the LLC is a flow-through structure those losses flow to our personal taxes.

We haven't tested out the loss theory yet since we haven't incurred loses since we set up the LLC. Of course, there is the possibility that our accountant is an idiot and we'll end up being screwed by this, but he's been the family account for years so I trust him.

[saveourpens 0]

I have had Pens season tickets for the past 3 years. Yes fans may demonish me, but I have sold most games.

If you know what you're doing you can turn a profit.

1.) This may seem obvious, but sell your tickets as early as possible. The closer to gametime, the more people want to unload their tickets and the more people who want to go to the game have already got tickets. This is especially important for those crappy weekday games against the Thrashers.

2.)Ticketexchange. People are usually willing to pay a premium for this because they're protected by the team itself. List tickets here as far away from gametime as possible.

3.) Ebay is great if you know how to use it. I do best offer and when I get an offer I ask them if they wouldn't mind meeting up or sending the money to me directly via paypal or check. Because of my feedback and the fact I put my cell on the listing, they usually say yes. This way, Ebay gets me maximum exposure with barely any fees.

4.) You may sometimes need to use craigslist. It can be effective, just be aware of the cheepies looking for a deal.

Good luck.

[goaliemanshark 6]

Great post man!

Any idea what sort of profits you are making? How close are you seats?

I guess another good question to ask is what are the "best seats" in your guy's opinion. That Sharks Tank has two decks and i think the best seats are either really far down right behind a goal, or first row second deck. Most non hockey fans prefer the lowest possible i assume, which is what I will be buying for!