KHL Lokomotiv plane crash; several ex-NHLers dead

[ktang 34]

This article may or may not have affected the attempted takeoff:

Navigator in Russian plane crash that killed 47 had been drinking, aviation committee says

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/russian-official-says-navigator-was-drunk-when-plane-crashed-in-june-killing-47/2011/09/19/gIQArOeMeK_story.html

[Chadd 916]

This article may or may not have affected the attempted takeoff:

Navigator in Russian plane crash that killed 47 had been drinking, aviation committee says

http://www.washingto...eMeK_story.html

Considering the navigator in question crashed, and died, in June; It's highly unlikely that he had anything to do with the KHL team crash in September.

[wrangler 157]

This is getting me curious -- what does a "navigator" do during an instrument approach? If he's whispering in the pilot's ear, telling him what to do, there's some dangerous lag time built in to the process. It seems very strange to have someone other than the Pilot Flying doing the moment-to-moment navigation required for the instant control inputs necessary during an instrument approach, especially in challenging conditions.

Granted, we do have ASR & PAR approaches, which have the air traffic controller giving the instructions, and the pilot just doing what he's told with the airplane, but I've always viewed that as an emergency procedure. It's just so much easier setting my own heading, power and pitch, getting my required descent rate, and keeping my navigation needles centered by myself.

[Chadd 916]

This is getting me curious -- what does a "navigator" do during an instrument approach? If he's whispering in the pilot's ear, telling him what to do, there's some dangerous lag time built in to the process. It seems very strange to have someone other than the Pilot Flying doing the moment-to-moment navigation required for the instant control inputs necessary during an instrument approach, especially in challenging conditions.

Granted, we do have ASR & PAR approaches, which have the air traffic controller giving the instructions, and the pilot just doing what he's told with the airplane, but I've always viewed that as an emergency procedure. It's just so much easier setting my own heading, power and pitch, getting my required descent rate, and keeping my navigation needles centered by myself.

Well, you have to keep in mind they also had a flight engineer. Very old-school configuration that requires high level CRM with twice as many people as most "modern" aircraft configuration. It's much easier to have the PF follow the slope and the PNF working radios and monitoring the gauges or displays.

[wrangler 157]

Much safer, too, I think. Seems like each person added to the loop increases the potential for trouble, and increases the required CRM skill level geometrically, if not exponentially.

[dsjunior1388 81]

Lokomotiv captain Ivan Tkachenko was donating money completely anonymously to sick children. A family did not now until after the crash who the benefactor was. His last payment for their daughters treatment was put through only moments before the takeoff.

http://rt.com/news/lokomotiv-children-disease-crash-021/

Lokomotiv captain Ivan Tkachenko was donating money completely anonymously to sick children. A family did not now until after the crash who the benefactor was. His last payment for their daughters treatment was put through only moments before the takeoff.

http://rt.com/news/lokomotiv-children-disease-crash-021/

[bagsbie 8]

Read that about Tkachenko... Brought tears to my eyes.

[Apes44 7]

http://m.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bit.ly%2FoPvvfW&h=kAQA-LvJ8&refid=52&_ft_a=13732078764&_ft_tf=260605817314001&_ft_tpi=13732078764&_ft_ti=17&_ft_fth=763cc04bfdc749c7&_ft_src=2&_ft_time_ft=1317737109&_ft_mf_objid=260605817314001&cb=5

Pens and Caps will wear special patch to comemorate the team and autograph and auction jerseys to benefit families of victims

[boldfacecole 0]

http://www.loveforlokomotiv.com/donate.html

Definitely getting one of these.

[jds 20]

Pilot error. http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1079839--pilot-error-blamed-in-russian-crash-that-killed-hockey-team?bn=1

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/7180944/russian-investigators-pilot-error-led-khl-lokomotiv-yaroslavl-plane-crash

[jds 20]

Today mark's the first anniversary of the crash. Pilot error was to blame. Now a spokesperson for the committee that was created to investigate the crash has stated that the two pilots should not have been allowed to even fly the plane-one had inadequate training and the other had falsified documents. What a totally avoidable tragedy.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/russian-hockey-plane-crash-pilots-not-entitled-to-fly-plane-investigators/article4525824/

[Chadd 916]

Today mark's the first anniversary of the crash. Pilot error was to blame. Now a spokesperson for the committee that was created to investigate the crash has stated that the two pilots should not have been allowed to even fly the plane-one had inadequate training and the other had falsified documents. What a totally avoidable tragedy.

http://www.theglobea...article4525824/

I still haven't heard what the falsified documents actually were, that could be serious or it could be minor. The other guy was fully trained but had not had his annual check done within the last 12 months. While it is a violation, that doesn't mean the guy wasn't capable of flying the aircraft.

[jds 20]

I still haven't heard what the falsified documents actually were, that could be serious or it could be minor. The other guy was fully trained but had not had his annual check done within the last 12 months. While it is a violation, that doesn't mean the guy wasn't capable of flying the aircraft.

Still sounds fishy. Although, just about everything in that country is fishy. Blame the dead guys and it all goes away.

[bagsbie 8]

I watched a Russian program online that had several expert, test pilots weigh in on the causes of the tragedy and the possibility of the pilot error, etc. Pretty strong arguments were expressed in favor of pilot and a co-pilot disagreement and resultant terrible mistake committed. They talked about that particular type of a plane's accelerator and brake pedal configuration and how the position of the foot is critical and very different from other planes'. In summary, pilots panicked due to some information and misjudged the situation. Also, they mentioned that the plane, entered the runway at a shorter point, which still was sufficient for this airplane, leaving about 300 meters of unused runway behind to avoid extra maneuvers. That turned out to be also very critical: had they had that extra 300 meters they could have lifted off the aircraft and avoided the tragedy. All in all, I think, there were a number of circumstantial events that lead to the disaster. The video I am referring to was shared by a user group dedicated to Lokomotiv team on a Russian version of Facebook called VKontakte. You have to be a member to watch it. I'll see if I can find it on the web. The only problem is that all of the commentaries are in Russian...

[RadioGaGa 162]

I just watched a Discovery Show "Mayday" that looked into the Yaroslavl crash in great depth.

I won't even try to document everything they said, but if you get a chance to see it, you should.

[bagsbie 8]

Two years ago today...

[stevelknievel 51]

R.I.P gentlemen. Gone but not forgotten.