2011-2012 Suspension thread

[goblue9280 33]

Putting the variables into the Rule 48 Shanaban equation...

S = 2a + 2b + 1

S = Shanaban length (in games)

a = has player received previous suspension (0 for no, 1 for yes, >1 for excessive history)

b = did hit result in injury (0 for no, 1 for yes, >1 for significant injury)

In keith's case a = 0, b = 1, so a 3 game suspension.

[EBondo 233]

Did you also see his hit on Keith?

I had no idea until this morning that there was a hit before all of this. Now, like Greg Wyshynski said, it's a two wrongs don't make a right scenario.

[hockeymass 11]

I had no idea until this morning that there was a hit before all of this. Now, like Greg Wyshynski said, it's a two wrongs don't make a right scenario.

Yeah, but only one of those wrongs ends up getting punished.

[Grinder 2]

Oh, please - if Sedin's high finish hadn't been a precursor to Keith's hit, it wouldn't have received a mention anywhere. Do you think Shanahan would have been looking at it today were it not for Keith's actions later in the game? It was worth two minutes on a slow day by a bored ref. Don't place it in the same category as what Keith did in terms of only one 'wrong' getting punished. Keith didn't miss a stride, and certainly didn't wind up in the quiet room getting assessed for a possible concussion. If you dislike the Canucks, fine and well, but don't start the "Yeah, but look what HE did..." game.

[hockeymass 11]

Oh, please - if Sedin's high finish hadn't been a precursor to Keith's hit, it wouldn't have received a mention anywhere. Do you think Shanahan would have been looking at it today were it not for Keith's actions later in the game? It was worth two minutes on a slow day by a bored ref. Don't place it in the same category as what Keith did in terms of only one 'wrong' getting punished. Keith didn't miss a stride, and certainly didn't wind up in the quiet room getting assessed for a possible concussion. If you dislike the Canucks, fine and well, but don't start the "Yeah, but look what HE did..." game.

If Sedin's high finish had been 2010 Matt Cooke's high finish, you'd be calling for his head.

[Chadd 916]

Daniel finished his hit as he was in process of dishing the puck, the puck was never near Daniel's possession when Keith hit him. If Daniel's hit is punishable then you have to go back and charge Keith with premeditating his hit.

The puck was long gone before Sedin made any movement toward Keith. It was just as premeditated and with just as much intent as Keith's hit. They should both be suspended 3+ games.

[Grinder 2]

One thing I missed until the highlights was Burrows attempt at a knee drop. Should be a game.

[roadrunner 12]

The puck was long gone before Sedin made any movement toward Keith. It was just as premeditated and with just as much intent as Keith's hit. They should both be suspended 3+ games.

Daniel was already on route to deliver the hit. If you look carefully Keith's body positioning was crouched as he dished the puck, if Keith was standing upright Daniel's hit would've have been clean. So one could even say that Keith was not ready/anticipating the hit. Whereas Keith was after one thing only. And now there's even word that he explicitly said he was goin to hit Daniel.

One thing I missed until the highlights was Burrows attempt at a knee drop. Should be a game.

Ya I think that was the scrum that followed Crawfords hack to his legs.

[Grinder 2]

If Sedin's high finish had been 2010 Matt Cooke's high finish, you'd be calling for his head.

And if the Queen had balls, she'd be king. I don't post often, but I don't think I hide behind any teams jersey when it comes to what's right or wrong in the league. Don't presume to know what my opinion might be.

I hope both hits are reviewed. I'm curious to hear Shanahan's commentary on both.

[hockeymass 11]

And if the Queen had balls, she'd be king. I don't post often, but I don't think I hide behind any teams jersey when it comes to what's right or wrong in the league. Don't presume to know what my opinion might be.

I hope both hits are reviewed. I'm curious to hear Shanahan's commentary on both.

I don't know why you're getting defensive. It was a high hit, and a dirty one. The only way you could possibly disagree is if you were biased in favor of the Canucks.

[Grinder 2]

Didn't mean to come across cranky. Been one of those days. In addition to your assumption that there can be no possible disagreement, you automatically assume that because I have a different opinion, I must be biased. I would suggest we agree to disagree. Lord knows, these boards would get awfully boring if we all hit a concensus on anything.

Cheers.

[wrangler 157]

Yes, Grinder, I do think they'd be looking at Sedin's hit, if Keith hadn't elbowed him. I believe Shanahan when he says they look at every game for questionable hits.

Not directed at you, but interesting that I got more comments about Keith's hit than Sedin's hit when I asked about Sedin's hit. Seems like some folks wanted to argue with me about Keith's hit when I never said a word about it.

I found Keith's elbow confusing, as he's not even known for being a physical player; he often uses his skating ability to avoid contact to make plays. I've been a Blackhawks fan longer than most of the people here have been alive, but I don't like seeing guys on my team make illegal hits any more than I like seeing them the victims of such hits.

[chippa13 1844]

You'd be surprised what a player will do if he feels he has been wronged. One of the worst elbows I've ever seen was one thrown by Pavel Bure.

[wrangler 157]

No need to worry; I'm not that way.

TSN has a couple things on this:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=391084

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=391070

[MattyBoy 1]

Daniel was already on route to deliver the hit. If you look carefully Keith's body positioning was crouched as he dished the puck, if Keith was standing upright Daniel's hit would've have been clean.

Only problem with that is the fact that Keith was almost upright when contact was made and you can clearly see Sedin lift his arm/shoulder towards the head for contact.

[Tailboard Jockey 25]

If the league is trying to get rid of this stuff, yes I agree Daniel should have been penalized. However, if they are going to penalize Daniel for that like they should then Keith's punishment should be substantially more because then we are talking about a premeditated, revengeful attack which was deliberately carried out to injure Daniel in retaliation. That's the key difference.

Motive is irrelevant. This isn't a murder trial. Both players targeted the head.

[Law Goalie 147]

I'm not sure it isn't relevant. I'm fairly certain Shanahan has talked in a general way about motivation, and it was certainly relevant in Bertuzzi's case. People often say that intent is irrelevant too, but again, Shanny consistently takes it into account when it's manifest.

However, I don't think anyone wants to drive the 'taking a number' phenomenon out of the game-- provided the response is either a semi-sanctioned fight or a hit that is at least somewhat clean (eg. one extra stride, but contact through the torso)

You'd be surprised what a player will do if he feels he has been wronged. One of the worst elbows I've ever seen was one thrown by Pavel Bure.

The one on Churla?-- that was awful. Kovalev just about decapitated Darcy Tucker a few years back under similar circumstances.

Personally, I think Sedin's hit should have had him out of the game before Keith had any chance to retaliate. He could have rattled Keith with a shoulder-to-shoulder hit into the corner, and that would have been borderline interference but no harm done. Instead, he went around Keith's shoulder to nail him in the jaw with a shoulder-cap. The only thing that saved Keith was that he happened to be standing still; the only difference between this and, say, Richards on Booth or Cooke on Savard is that the forces involved were lessened because of the lower closing speed.

What really pisses me off about intentional hits to the head is that they're fundamentally cowardly. Hitting torso-to-torso with another big, strong human cuts both ways: the hitter feels it too, the guy hit just feels it more (generally); the hitter is still ramming into 200+lbs of armoured and solidly planted muscle and bone. In a hit to the head the hitter feels almost nothing, since he's only hitting an ~8lbs globe on the end of a flexible stalk, and does far more damage. It's the technical equivalent of bringing a knife to a fistfight: suddenly the antagonist is trying to do more harm to the other guy with less risk of damage to himself, whereas in a question of fists knuckles are going to get broken on both sides. Hitting people *should* hurt, and trying to avoid that while doing far more damage at the same time is cowardly in the purest sense -- and I think that's why players like Keith get so enraged when someone pulls it on them.

[hamstercaster 2]

Apparently it is now an "in-person" hearing set for today for Duncan Keith. Could it be that Shanahan has seen the hit by Sedin and judged that Keith's hit was a retaliation hit and that it may deserve more than 5 games or was it Keith who just did not wave his in-person hearing?

[gymmonster 4]

Apparently it is now an "in-person" hearing set for today for Duncan Keith. Could it be that Shanahan has seen the hit by Sedin and judged that Keith's hit was a retaliation hit and that it may deserve more than 5 games or was it Keith who just did not wave his in-person hearing?

Keith exercised his right to waive the in person hearing.

Why didn't Sedin go to the quiet room? He went straight on to play the PP. I thought there was manditory rules regarding the quiet room, no? Are there no associated fines for not following said rules?

[Chadd 916]

Keith exercised his right to waive the in person hearing.

Why didn't Sedin go to the quiet room? He went straight on to play the PP. I thought there was manditory rules regarding the quiet room, no? Are there no associated fines for not following said rules?

All team has to do is say that he didn't show any symptoms at first and they seem to get a free pass. I can only imagine how much some Canucks fans would be howling if Sedin was also suspended for his hit and the team was fined for not following the established protocols. If Keith is getting five or more, then Sedin should be getting at least three for his hit.

[roadrunner 12]

I think Daniel should get a game and Keith should get no less then 6. I think the suspensions should be increased as well. So what is Keith is out 6 games? Daniel could be done for the season. They should have a bigger impact on the team.

[chippa13 1844]

You can't go there because unscrupulous teams could have some plugger/call up be the victim of a bad hit and decide they can live without the guy a bit longer than the injury warrants, just to keep the offender out of the other team's lineup.

[Chadd 916]

I think Daniel should get a game and Keith should get no less then 6. I think the suspensions should be increased as well. So what is Keith is out 6 games? Daniel could be done for the season. They should have a bigger impact on the team.

And Keith could have been out for the season due to Sedin's hit on him. As a Hawks fan, I would rather not have Keith at all. He makes more mistakes and sets up more chances for the other team than he does for his own.

[gymmonster 4]

All team has to do is say that he didn't show any symptoms at first and they seem to get a free pass. I can only imagine how much some Canucks fans would be howling if Sedin was also suspended for his hit and the team was fined for not following the established protocols. If Keith is getting five or more, then Sedin should be getting at least three for his hit.

I am a huge Canuck fan (Season ticket holder) but some fans need to get their head straight. If you're going out there and calling a spade a spade.....then you have to apply this thinking to all situations. Sedin should have been given at least a 2 min for illegal check to the head and should be suspended too, although I won't speculate on how many games for both Sedin and Keith.

I don't think it's logical to say that because Sedin was injured by Keith that Sedin's illegal head check somehow becomes a non-issue, and I think the Canucks should be fined if they didn't follow the concussion protocol because if the league realy wants to protect player safety then all angles needs to be covered. I can't remember when this rule came into effect (before, during, or after the playoffs) and I know this was covered extensively in a different topic, but teams are never going to send a player into the quiet room during the playoffs unless it's so obvious that they can't hide the symptoms. If anyone watched the game you can clearly see Sedin in a daze on the ice and on the bench both prior to and after the PP. Can only imagine what the consequences would be if he got hit again during the PP.

I think Daniel should get a game and Keith should get no less then 6. I think the suspensions should be increased as well. So what is Keith is out 6 games? Daniel could be done for the season. They should have a bigger impact on the team.

If I recall correctly, Shannahan stated that when he hands out suspensions he's doing so not for punishment but because he wants to change player behaviour in the long run.

And Keith could have been out for the season due to Sedin's hit on him. As a Hawks fan, I would rather not have Keith at all. He makes more mistakes and sets up more chances for the other team than he does for his own.

Trade you Bieksa for Keith.....

[hamstercaster 2]

I'm wondering if the NHL could go with a Disciplinary Committee. Say have Shanahan, someone from the NHLPA and perhaps one or two more hockey person on that committee to decide what type of disciplinary action needs to be taken on whatever offense is brought up in front of the committee.