Wayne Simmonds Hit With Banana During Shootout

[Jason Harris 31]

Here's the 2nd pic that AM980 posted... would you like to reassess?

Yes, I'd agree the second picture shouldn't be going on his FB profile......

[psh 25]

Hey, the swastika was considered a good luck symbol for thousands of years before the Nazis used it. Just because a symbol means something to one person doesn't mean everyone shares that same opinion. If someone is using the "battle flag of the confederacy" to honor the men that fought under it, or for the concept of throwing off what they believed to be an oppressive national government, then that is what they believe. You don't have to believe it, or like it, but you should understand it.

Personally, I'm in the George Carlin camp and believe in leaving the symbols to the symbol-minded.

I like the Carlin reference, but I think your invocation of the swastika supports my point better than yours. The swastika may have had another meaning prior to the twentieth century, but the Holocaust changed that forever. That is why if you see someone driving down the street in Auschwitz with a swastika bumper sticker, you can bet he is deranged, earth shatteringly ignorant, or being tastelessly provocative. That behavior is indefensible.

Likewise celebrating the confederate flag. To follow the Auschwitz example-driving down the street in the deep south with a confederate flag bumper sticker is indefensible. You can't put a happy face on the confederate flag. The weight of history makes that impossible. 600,000 Americans died in the Civil War to prevent the confederacy from reducing one race of human beings from people to property. No one should be asked to "undertand" someone else's desire to display the confederate flag, just as they should not be asked to understand someone's desire to display the swastika. I'll acknowledge their First Amendment right to do so, but that is a different issue. Symbols, especially those two, should be condemned and those who defend them deserve our contempt.

[jds 20]

Here's the 2nd pic that AM980 posted... would you like to reassess?

Douche it is.

[Joshison 1]

He definitely said it for the record, I was watching the game and I hate Avery so I was like WOW he just called Avery a F%^%$&!

[Chadd 916]

. The swastika may have had another meaning prior to the twentieth century, but the Holocaust changed that forever. That is why if you see someone driving down the street in Auschwitz with a swastika bumper sticker, you can bet he is deranged, earth shatteringly ignorant, or being tastelessly provocative. That behavior is indefensible.

That symbol means something different to people of a different culture. Just as that flag means something different to some people from the south. Not everyone is from the "western world" and not everyone is from the north. You can disagree with their views, but you can't say that those views aren't possible. Perception is reality and they perceive that flag to mean something different than what you perceive it to mean. Neither of you is right or wrong, because you are both being honest about what it means to you. Unfortunately for you, you don't get to decide what it means to other people.

The most intolerant people in the world are the ones who rail against intolerance.

Furthermore, can you imagine the outrage if Avery dropped an "n-bomb" on Simmonds? Why is what Simmonds is THOUGHT to have said any different?

Because it's still acceptable in some parts of society to slander those folks? Hockey players are not the most enlightened group of people on the planet. I'm with you on this one, it's a double standard. Unfortunately, it's one that will be around for a while.

[chippa13 1844]

Because it's still acceptable in some parts of society to slander those folks? Hockey players are not the most enlightened group of people on the planet. I'm with you on this one, it's a double standard. Unfortunately, it's one that will be around for a while.

Need further proof, check out the poll on TSN's website. some 43-44% of respondents believe anything goes when trying to get under the skin of your opponent. The other choice was that racial/homophobic slurs are always unacceptable. That's right, 43-44% of Canadian hockey fans who answered the poll consider race and sexual orientation fair game when trash talking on the ice.

[Jason Harris 31]

I like the Carlin reference, but I think your invocation of the swastika supports my point better than yours. The swastika may have had another meaning prior to the twentieth century, but the Holocaust changed that forever. That is why if you see someone driving down the street in Auschwitz with a swastika bumper sticker, you can bet he is deranged, earth shatteringly ignorant, or being tastelessly provocative. That behavior is indefensible.

Likewise celebrating the confederate flag. To follow the Auschwitz example-driving down the street in the deep south with a confederate flag bumper sticker is indefensible. You can't put a happy face on the confederate flag. The weight of history makes that impossible. 600,000 Americans died in the Civil War to prevent the confederacy from reducing one race of human beings from people to property. No one should be asked to "undertand" someone else's desire to display the confederate flag, just as they should not be asked to understand someone's desire to display the swastika. I'll acknowledge their First Amendment right to do so, but that is a different issue. Symbols, especially those two, should be condemned and those who defend them deserve our contempt.

That's a great post.

[chippa13 1844]

How can people reconcile allowing slurs on the ice as part of the game if they wouldn't allow them anywhere else? It basically offers up 2 possible explanations, either a good portion Canadian hockey fans are extremely hypocritical about what can be tolerated on the ice versus off of it or same said good portion are closet racists/bigots.

[IniNew 53]

How can people reconcile allowing slurs on the ice as part of the game if they wouldn't allow them anywhere else? It basically offers up 2 possible explanations, either a good portion Canadian hockey fans are extremely hypocritical about what can be tolerated on the ice versus off of it or same said good portion are closet racists/bigots.

People disassociate playing hockey with life outside of the boards.

[chippa13 1844]

So that condones racial and homophobic slurs on the ice?

[goaliemanshark 6]

No Chadd, it doesn't depend on what culture you're from. A swastika is a swastika. PERIOD.

I don't care if you're Hindu, Buddhist or Janis. It's a symbol for Nazis now. Everyone else who had been using it for thousands of years have lost the right to use it. Forever. Period.

[chippa13 1844]

Just like the moustache and the name Adolf. It has all pretty much been ruined for everyone else.

[jcommeau91 2]

No Chadd, it doesn't depend on what culture you're from. A swastika is a swastika. PERIOD.

I don't care if you're Hindu, Buddhist or Janis. It's a symbol for Nazis now. Everyone else who had been using it for thousands of years have lost the right to use it. Forever. Period.

Like Chadd said, "Unfortunately for you, you don't get to decide what it means to other people." It depends on the person and their views. As far as tossing around gay slanders it happens quite a bit in Amateur, Jrs, and Collegiate hockey and I know that from experience. Even in beer league stuff like that gets said.

[chippa13 1844]

Just because something happens, that does not make it right.

[jcommeau91 2]

I never said it was right, I'm just saying it gets said a lot more than people think. I bet you a lot of players say things like that, but since it was said to Avery it became a different story.

[jschlenske 0]

Just like the moustache and the name Adolf. It has all pretty much been ruined for everyone else.

Everyone else but Jordan http://thesportsblahblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/michael_jordan2010-hitler-mustache-med-wide.jpg

[chippa13 1844]

Jordan took a lot of heat for that.

[goaliemanshark 6]

Like Chadd said, "Unfortunately for you, you don't get to decide what it means to other people." It depends on the person and their views.

Tell that to the 9 million who died in the holocaust. Plus the 60 million plus who died in the war.

[jcommeau91 2]

And those people don't make up the whole population of world either. So while you may have the majority of people who feel that way, there are still others who have a different meaning for it. I feel the same way as you about, but you can't tell someone they're wrong for believing otherwise.

[chippa13 1844]

Are we seriously arguing that there are some people in today's world who will have a different meaning for the swaztika? While it has had different meanings throughout history, there is no arguing that it lives on since the 1930's as the symbol of the Nazi Party. To dovetail back into the current discussion on the Confederate flag, face it folks, the flag and the defense of slavery cannot be separated. The flag represented the block of 11 slave states who didn't want the federal government telling them that they could no longer own slaves.

[jcommeau91 2]

Unless you were to go ask every person in the world today what it means to them you can't really argue otherwise. I feel the same way about the flag and swastika as you guys do, but who are we do speak for other people and how they feel. You have to look at it from all views.

[chippa13 1844]

The point is that it is irrelevent what the holder of the symbol feels it stands for. It is impossible for someone to distance the Confederate flag from slavery, whether someone says, "that isn't what it means to me", it is simply one of the things that the flag stood for. Every person who has seen a Confederate flag knows that it flew as the standard for the side that fought to keep slavery. Heck, even country singers accept that the flag isn't such a good idea..............

From Brad Paisley's Camouflage..........

"The stars and bars offend some folks and I guess I see why.............."

[goaliemanshark 6]

And those people don't make up the whole population of world either. So while you may have the majority of people who feel that way, there are still others who have a different meaning for it. I feel the same way as you about, but you can't tell someone they're wrong for believing otherwise.

Sure I can.

Dear all those who feel differently about the Swastika, you are wrong. It's sad that a group of people 70 years ago ruined something for you, but it happened.

This applies to all about the confederate flag as well. Got nothing to be with being ignorant or racist. It's about slavery.

[jcommeau91 2]

To each their own. I guess I'm just more open minded.

[psh 25]

To each their own. I guess I'm just more open minded.

To the contrary, I'd say you're advocating a world that would regress into a purely subjective, relativistic Babel. One in which I can say, "I believe that red octagons with the word 'stop' printed on them mean that I should go." Subjectivity and individual conscience have their places and are of utmost importance to me, but for a civilzation to work, we all have to agree on some rules and the meaning of some things. It took two tragedies for the two symbols being discussed to take on their ultimate meanings, but they did. You simply can't ignore 600,000; 6,000,000; or 60,000,000 million deaths when you cast your eyes on a swastika or a confederate flag. Their meanings are their meanings and to brandish those symbols or to minimize the damage they represent is extraordinarily selfish and blinkered. Even so, there are many who want to do just that.

To put a human face on this and to refer to not too distant American history imagine this: You are the descendant of a slave who died in South Carolina. It's 1990 and you have traveled to South Carolina to learn more about your great-grandpa. You go to the public archives on the state house grounds and find the deed of sale that lists your great-grandfather as having been purchased at auction by a local plantation owner. You also find a death certificate and learn that your great-grandfather was killed by the plantation manager when he became too old to undertake any labor. This was legal. After all, the farmer owned your great-grandfather. You are upset. Perhaps you even can't keep yourself from crying in a dark corner of the basement archives when you think about the sorrow and fear your great-grandmother must have felt at that moment. But, you are tough minded. You tell yourself that times have changed. You even feel fortunate. Look at the times we live in, look at what great-grandpa left us. Then you thank the clerk who helped you find the documents and you climb the stairs to leave and step out into the beautiful day on the state house grounds. As you look up to marvel at the blue sky you see flag poles displaying the US flag, the South Carolina flag, and the... No. This can't be. But it is. There it is on the state house. The Confederate flag. The Confederate flag was not removed from the SC state house until 2000. What do you feel then as you stand there? Hate? Fear? Nausea?