Penn State Scandal

[fastbrother7 0]

Im pretty chapped about that Penn State thing. Not much fires me up, but that kinda stuff does. Disgusting.

[bigdmac 12]

Im pretty chapped about that Penn State thing. Not much fires me up, but that kinda stuff does. Disgusting.

I agree, easily the worst thing you can ever do to someone. I've seen so many cases of this, and it makes me sick. I hope he really gets what's coming to him.

*EDIT* What Sandusky did, not Paterno.

[Chadd 916]

I've been saying for years that Joe Paterno should retire but it's sad that the people in the administration that have been trying to force him out for the last couple years are using this to take him down. It wouldn't surprise me if they sat on it just so that it would take him down. He went to his boss as soon as he was told of the issue as required by law and he testified in front of the grand jury when asked, he hasn't tried to dodge this at all from what I understand. The school has prevented him from answering any questions to the media, even scrubbed his press conference at the last minute. I'm not saying that he couldn't have done more, obviously he could (and should) have.

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

I believe they wanted him to get the wins record, then use it.

[skeeter14 0]

I've been saying for years that Joe Paterno should retire but it's sad that the people in the administration that have been trying to force him out for the last couple years are using this to take him down. It wouldn't surprise me if they sat on it just so that it would take him down. He went to his boss as soon as he was told of the issue as required by law and he testified in front of the grand jury when asked, he hasn't tried to dodge this at all from what I understand. The school has prevented him from answering any questions to the media, even scrubbed his press conference at the last minute. I'm not saying that he couldn't have done more, obviously he could (and should) have.

This. He is being made a distraction by Penn State. They don't want the attention on him, and focus all the attention on his because he is such a public figure. And for everyone calling for his head, I'll reserve my thoughts on that until he speaks (which he clearly wants to do). I feel (as of right now) He told the AD what he knew, and then was probably under the impression that it was followed through on and was either handled, was being handled, or was found to be a miss understanding (most likely not).

Like you said Chadd, could he have done more? Yes. Should he have? Well that's up to your moral compass, and for me, Yes.

all that aside, this is an absolutely terrible thing, and I hope Sandusky rots in Jail, and later hell.

[Race4LastPlace 31]

As long as the program brings in the money, why shouldn't they sweep it under a rug. Looks like they've been covering it up since what the late 90's? Everyone associated with this in that program should be gone.

[Axxion89 32]

A lot of people especially in the media have been on a tear against Paterno for not reporting this to the police and saying that he covered all of this up. Fact is nobody knows what he knows and nobody knows the real details. Also, nobody knows EXACTLY what that grad assistant told Paterno in 2002, he could have very well said something very vague and unclear prompting Paterno to follow Penn State protocol and report it to his superior. If Paterno truly knew what was going on then he should be ashamed of himself but based on everything the man stands for and his reputation, I believe that he was not told all of the facts when this situation occurred. Also, many people are criticizing Paterno for not doing the "moral" thing but nobody at all seems to be criticizing the Grad Assistant who saw exactly what happened, did nothing to stop it as it was occurring, and did not contact the police at all after seeing it first hand.

I will reserve my judgement of Paterno when true facts emerge and not pointless speculation. Lastly, the hypocrisy in this country and the media about doing the "moral thing" is unreal, because how many people see people getting robbed, assaulted, abused, beaten, and more and simply just report it to their superior and go on with their lives?

PS - I hope Sandusky rots in prison and other misfortunes come his way, many of which I cannot state

[wrangler 157]

A lot of people especially in the media have been on a tear against Paterno for not reporting this to the police and saying that he covered all of this up. Fact is nobody knows what he knows and nobody knows the real details. Also, nobody knows EXACTLY what that grad assistant told Paterno in 2002, he could have very well said something very vague and unclear prompting Paterno to follow Penn State protocol and report it to his superior. If Paterno truly knew what was going on then he should be ashamed of himself but based on everything the man stands for and his reputation, I believe that he was not told all of the facts when this situation occurred. Also, many people are criticizing Paterno for not doing the "moral" thing but nobody at all seems to be criticizing the Grad Assistant who saw exactly what happened, did nothing to stop it as it was occurring, and did not contact the police at all after seeing it first hand.

I will reserve my judgement of Paterno when true facts emerge and not pointless speculation.

This is what I've been thinking, just observing from the peanut gallery. I've found it interesting that Paterno testified before the grand jury, but has not been charged with perjury. Nor has he been charged with anything else. I assume there's a reason that others were charged, and he was not.

No doubt we'll hear a lot more, as time goes on. Right now the signal-to-noise ratio is a problem.

[number21 3]

Personally I think Joe or the university should have kicked Sandusky out the door even at the slightest hint this was going on. What he did was inexcusable and if there was a cover-up, IMO that is just as bad. A lot of people should have done more than they did in this situation, there is no question.

However, I just heard on the radio, in an interview with a rep. from a child abuse group that the law in PA used to state that only an eye witness could report an abusive act. It was recently re-written in order to deal with priests and reporting of abuse. I can't get to the shows website at work to get name of the person who said it, but it was a credible source.

[chippa13 1844]

If Paterno is just being used as a scapegoat and was really a good guy getting quashed then why stay where something so heinous was covered up? It isn't like he wouldn't have been able to find another job.

[wrangler 157]

I don't see Paterno as ever being interested in another job.

Maybe this topic needs its own thread; it can only grow.

[skeeter14 0]

If Paterno is just being used as a scapegoat and was really a good guy getting quashed then why stay where something so heinous was covered up? It isn't like he wouldn't have been able to find another job.

I think it goes back to what he knew....which no one (right now) besides him knows. I'm very interested to hear what he says when he speaks with the media and answers their questions.

I will say, while what Sandusky has done is beyond disgusting, all this holier than thou garbage from every sports talk host about moral obligations is almost as disgusting.

[skeeter14 0]

since it was suggested, I decided to open it. Onward we go with the discussion

[wrangler 157]

Good. Hopefully the mods can move the other comments.

Here's the grand jury report:

http://cbschicago.fi...presentment.pdf

And here's a timeline:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7212054/key-dates-penn-state-nittany-lions-sex-abuse-case

[goblue9280 33]

Read the grand jury report, Paterno himself testified that the dbag grad assistant (McQueary) reported seeing Sandusky in the showers "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy." Again, Paterno admits he was told that a longtime friend/assistant of his was sexually abusing a 10 year old within the facilities of the football program he runs, and did nothing more than tell his boss. Even though he knew that Sandusky ran a program for troubled youths and always had kids around him... even though he knew that Sandusky continued to use the university facilities for years after the incident... he never followed up to make sure that the proper authorities were informed about the allegations.

I'm really at a loss for how any rational person could defend JoePa at this point. He needs to be fired immediately.

[wrangler 157]

Plenty of blame to go around, starting with the janitor and the graduate assistant who were the witnesses. I don't see a special reason to go after Joe first, or only.

It seems to me when I've seen this kind of scandal surface in the past, that there were always plenty of folks who knew something, and we always wonder why nothing was done, especially when there wasn't even an active cover-up.

[goblue9280 33]

Plenty of blame to go around, starting with the janitor and the graduate assistant who were the witnesses. I don't see a special reason to go after Joe first, or only.

Agree completely. McQueary (the grad assistant) deserves even more scorn for walking out on the child that was being abused. He also should have called the authorities immediately. At the very least he should have called them when he realized (based on the fact that no police had contacted him for a statement) that Sandusky was not being investigated. It's mind boggling that McQueary hasn't been fired yet.

I don't believe the janitor works at the university anymore, but if his supervisor/coworkers do, they should be fired as well for putting their jobs above the kids.

The most disturbing thing about the grand jury report is that numerous adults had the opportunity to step up and stop the abuse, yet they all failed miserably. As a parent of 4 young children, it disgusts me that so many adults could be so negligent.

[fastbrother7 0]

As an advocate for youth in state's custody, it disgusts me that anyone would take up for anyone's actions or lack therof in regards to Penn State's staff, governing body, coaches, etc. Its really sickening and trust me, Ive seen and heard it all. Ive worn many hats in the family and social services field, and have interviewed sexually and physically abused children on many occasions and its horrible. Having said that, just reading the indictment sickens me almost more than anything I have seen or heard first hand:

http://www.freep.com/assets/freep/pdf/C4181508116.PDF

[Axxion89 32]

Agree completely. McQueary (the grad assistant) deserves even more scorn for walking out on the child that was being abused. He also should have called the authorities immediately. At the very least he should have called them when he realized (based on the fact that no police had contacted him for a statement) that Sandusky was not being investigated. It's mind boggling that McQueary hasn't been fired yet.

I don't believe the janitor works at the university anymore, but if his supervisor/coworkers do, they should be fired as well for putting their jobs above the kids.

The most disturbing thing about the grand jury report is that numerous adults had the opportunity to step up and stop the abuse, yet they all failed miserably. As a parent of 4 young children, it disgusts me that so many adults could be so negligent.

Agree completely. McQueary (the grad assistant) deserves even more scorn for walking out on the child that was being abused. He also should have called the authorities immediately. At the very least he should have called them when he realized (based on the fact that no police had contacted him for a statement) that Sandusky was not being investigated. It's mind boggling that McQueary hasn't been fired yet.

I don't believe the janitor works at the university anymore, but if his supervisor/coworkers do, they should be fired as well for putting their jobs above the kids.

The most disturbing thing about the grand jury report is that numerous adults had the opportunity to step up and stop the abuse, yet they all failed miserably. As a parent of 4 young children, it disgusts me that so many adults could be so negligent.

This is the sad part of the story and to me, it shows a catastrophic flaw in Penn State's policies and procedures in events such that the GA saw. That's why I feel Paterno is being unjustifiably accused of allowing this to occur because he did as he was instructed and put his trust into his superiors to handle the situation but unfortunately they (who were the ones obligated to call the police) did not of course now in hindsight, it is very easy for us to say that Paterno should have done more. What Paterno didn't do is an ethical decision on hi part and one that he must contemplate for the rest of his life but not one that should cost him his job.

The GA, and the Janitors should share a lot of the blame because as an eyewitness, you should report such a heinous offense to the police or call 911 or at the very least confront Sandusky during the act and do something! The administrators should be sentenced to severe jail time for knowing what was going on and failing to call the police and rather, doing essentially nothing about it.

Finally, what were the victims parents doing during all of this? Surely one of these parents must have thought something was going on with their child right?

[troy 12]

If JoePa ends up getting fired because of this I legitimately believe there will be riots in State College. Those kids absolutely love him.

Edit: I guess JoePa's retiring after this season. I hope there are still riots.

[goblue9280 33]

Finally, what were the victims parents doing during all of this? Surely one of these parents must have thought something was going on with their child right?

These were troubled youths part of the outreach program that Sandusky started... essentially he created it to exploit/abuse children. However, one parent did come forward in 1998. Sandusky was investigated... university police were even in on the investigation. However, even though he admitted to showering with young boys and hugging them in the showers, the D.A. decided there was not enough evidence to proceed with charges. Sandusky then retires the next summer even though he is of prime coaching age (55) and was supposedly in line as the successor to JoePa.

Do you really think that University police were investigating the football defensive coordinator for child abuse, yet Paterno was not told about this... even after the investigation was concluded? I don't buy it for a second. Paterno knew in '98/'99, and it was reaffirmed in 2002 when McQueary came to him after witnessing him raping a 10 year old.

Paterno was ethically (not legally) obligated as the head of the football program and the former boss of Sandusky to ensure that Sandusky was investigated by the authorities. Failure to meet ethical standards is most certainly a fire-able offense. Why did Joe never question that for 9 years after the 2002 incident, Sandusky continued to have an office on campus, or continue to use atheltic facilities or continue to bring children to Penn State practices? Did the thought really never cross his mind that maybe no one called the cops? Face it, Paterno figured he did his part and that the blame wouldn't fall on him. He chose to ignore common sense, and ignore the past present and future victims. He should have been fired already. And let me say, that until this week, Paterno was probably my favorite college coach outside of the Michigan program... I had the utmost respect for what he'd done for that University.

[wrangler 157]

Perhaps I'm a bit more cynical (or something), but I'd like to see what comes out in court. I'll take facts any day over conclusions based on assumptions and conjecture. It won't hurt to remember that indictments generally don't require the level of proof that most folks would like to see before they'll accept something.

I will say that just because charges aren't filed, or an incident isn't known to be reported to the police, doesn't mean that an individual can conclude that he needs to call the police himself. These are sensitive issues, and a victim and his family may make choices based on other considerations. And those choices might well include keeping everyone not absolutely necessary out of the loop. I just don't find it that easy to immediately assign blame in a data vacuum.

[chippa13 1844]

If JoePa ends up getting fired because of this I legitimately believe there will be riots in State College. Those kids absolutely love him.

Edit: I guess JoePa's retiring after this season. I hope there are still riots.

That is just stupid.

[wrangler 157]

Paterno and Spanier are gone, effectively immediately, according to the board of trustees press conference.

[Axxion89 32]

Paterno and Spanier are gone, effectively immediately, according to the board of trustees press conference.

Spanier was expected to be kicked out

Firing Paterno was gutless and pathetic, they even said after the firing that they don't have all of the facts and they still do that? Back peddling at its finest, I feel bad for whoever decides to take the head coaching job and all the vacated positions at that school, its going to be a mess for years to come. Will be interesting to hear what Paterno has to say