M11 Helmet

[danno25nh 3]

A mouthguard obviously will not stop the rotation and whip of a boxer's head after getting drilled in the jaw.

Exactly, nor will it prevent that same rebound when our head bounces off a hard surface in hockey. When boxing we receive injury to the brain in both a coupe and contracoupe manner. Even at my age I still box 2 - 3 times a week. I've been on the receiving end of some pretty hard shots over the years and can promise the headache is on both sides of the head after a strong hit.

[akravetz 29]

My son was not wearing a mouthguard at the time as practice was over and they were playing a "glove game" you know skating around picking up gloves. He wears one now religiously and is chewing away most of the plastic. Ugh. Mouth guards do not prevent concussions but they will protect your teeth as the last poster said.

The positives that came out of this, so far, is that he's keeping his head up, not diving for pucks as many young kids do and trying to guess where the puck will go rather than just go into the pile of kids to get it. See Snoopy gang for an idea of what I am talking about.

My wife who is a physical therapist talked to the sports med docs at her office and they pretty much sided with you. Concussions are a result of the brain banging around in the skull. Think shaken baby but not as extreme.

Andy

[Tikkanen 1]

Like other have said the helmets are made to attempt to prevent concussions. I got the M11 because I like trying out new technologies, I can afford it and it fit my head good. We all have different shaped heads so it's important it fits right first and foremost. And I have no history of concussions or hitting my head, I can count on one had the number of times my head has banged into something hard enough to get hurt in 18 years of hockey. I haven't had any problems with the M11, no padding falling apart, it breathes well and the fit has been great.

[ahbroody 1]

Danno sorry my bro science upset you so. I have a JD not an MD attached to my name.

My thinking on the mouthguard was based on the concept that a impact to the base of the chin forces tge mandable up into the base of the skull. As all little kids wear cages many frontal impacts I thought resulted in the jawbone being pushed back and up. My understanding from superficial reading was this bumping can cause a knockout and possible concussion. The reading also seemed to imply that mouthguards provide a space buffer and alter the position of the jaw which may help in reducing the possibility of the mandable striking the bottom of the skull during a frontal impact such as this one here. I thought the jury was still out on this. I thought there were some studies that supported this theory.

You definetly wrote a long reply some was a little off topic on airflow etc which leads me to believe you have some knowledge in the medical field. Was just a theory.

Akravetz. may want to look in to a protech mouthguard. they dont chew them.

[goblue9280 33]

Like other have said the helmets are made to attempt to prevent concussions.

Which is the best thing about this, helmet manufacturers seem to be listening to consumers by putting more R&D into concussion prevention. However, I think it's very premature for any company to claim a helmet reduces concussions simply because the understanding of concussions is still in its infancy. For example, dannos posts sparked me to read some more on coup-countercoup brain injuries... the first thing I realized is that there is sitll a lot of differing theories on the cause and process of the countercoup injury.

[chip1441 0]

One thing about the Cascade M11 that turned me off of it, pick one up when at the store and try squeezing temple to temple. Pretty flimsy. It just doesn't seem to be as solid as some of the other helmets out there. (Easton E700 or any Z-Shock) I have no stats or data to back me up, but it seems that a solid contact from the ice or a puck would transfer through it much easier. The point of having a hard shell is to disperse the impact force over a larger area.

I wear a Bauer 9900 because it fits me the best. Absolutely no movement once I have it on. I do think that fit is the most important part of a helmet, but another is comfort. I wear a small, let out as much as possible and it still digs into my forehead a tad. I don't mind at all, but some might. The medium just rocked around my head side to side too much for my taste.

If you are willing to wait till April or May, the Bauer ReAkt looks like a pretty good helmet. From what I have heard, it is supposed to help dissipate the rotational forces better than a "normal" helmet. Less snapping around of the head = less jarring of the brain = less chance of a concussion.

Any thoughts on the sturdiness of a helmet helping prevent concussions?

[goblue9280 33]

Danno sorry my bro science upset you so. I have a JD not an MD attached to my name.

My thinking on the mouthguard was based on the concept that a impact to the base of the chin forces tge mandable up into the base of the skull. As all little kids wear cages many frontal impacts I thought resulted in the jawbone being pushed back and up. My understanding from superficial reading was this bumping can cause a knockout and possible concussion. The reading also seemed to imply that mouthguards provide a space buffer and alter the position of the jaw which may help in reducing the possibility of the mandable striking the bottom of the skull during a frontal impact such as this one here. I thought the jury was still out on this. I thought there were some studies that supported this theory.

You definetly wrote a long reply some was a little off topic on airflow etc which leads me to believe you have some knowledge in the medical field. Was just a theory.

Akravetz. may want to look in to a protech mouthguard. they dont chew them.

I was looking into this a few months ago after attending a level 1 coaching clinic... there was an MD there taking the clinic who was agressively adament about the high-end helmets and mouthguards being able to reduce concussions. Anyhow, there's a lot of disagreement about mouthguards role in concussions. At this point, there hasn't been conclusive proof that mouthguards help prevent/reduce concussions. Here's a recent report that looked into all of the different peer-reviewed studies out there related to protective equipment and concusions, here's the opening to the mouthguards section:

During the 1960s and 1970s, the use of mouth guards was made mandatory in many

sports, including football, ice hockey, lacrosse, field hockey, and boxing. The rationale

for these rule changes was to provide additional protection against dental and orofacial

injuries and to reduce a player’s risk of concussion.25,84 However, at that time, as

well as now, there is little evidence that mouth guards provide protection against

concussion.

[hockeymass 11]

One thing about the Cascade M11 that turned me off of it, pick one up when at the store and try squeezing temple to temple. Pretty flimsy. It just doesn't seem to be as solid as some of the other helmets out there. (Easton E700 or any Z-Shock) I have no stats or data to back me up, but it seems that a solid contact from the ice or a puck would transfer through it much easier. The point of having a hard shell is to disperse the impact force over a larger area.

I wear a Bauer 9900 because it fits me the best. Absolutely no movement once I have it on. I do think that fit is the most important part of a helmet, but another is comfort. I wear a small, let out as much as possible and it still digs into my forehead a tad. I don't mind at all, but some might. The medium just rocked around my head side to side too much for my taste.

If you are willing to wait till April or May, the Bauer ReAkt looks like a pretty good helmet. From what I have heard, it is supposed to help dissipate the rotational forces better than a "normal" helmet. Less snapping around of the head = less jarring of the brain = less chance of a concussion.

Any thoughts on the sturdiness of a helmet helping prevent concussions?

The "solidness" was already discussed. There is compressible rubber inside the shell.

[chip1441 0]

oops... My bad. I skipped around the thread a bit and missed it.

[forbs02 20]

One of the better articles on concussions and helmets that I've read:

http://nhl-red-light.si.com/2012/02/03/why-helmets-cant-solve-concussions/

It boils down to getting a helmet that fits well and is structurally sound.

[Law Goalie 147]

^^ Thanks for that: great article with input from an extremely reputable source.

I would however point out that Dr. Stuart is being a little disingenuous when he implies that junior players aren't scouted as fighters: though he proceeds to fairly strong conclusions, he admits initially that only "some scouts" told him this, and I'd wager every other scout he asked said they did scout for fighters and for fighting ability at least to some extent.

[Stoop 1]

I'd love to hear someone knowledge speak about whether the weight of the helmet is important, and whether a helmet that is too heavy makes the problem worse, especially on youth players.

[danno25nh 3]

AHBroody: I apologize if I sounded upset, I really wasn't. The subject of mouth guards has been something high on my list lately. At my gym, I'm a boxer as well as a hockey player, we had a mouthguard manufacturer show up making claims that their mouthpiece would make us faster, stronger, have more endurance, AND prevent knockouts.

I've seen lots of advertisements claiming the same.

Your thought about the mandible pushing against the skull is one very debated concept that has been neither proven nor disproved. Although I am of the belief that simply closing our mouth will prevent this injury as well as a mouthpiece, I'll concede that there is debate.

The problem arrises when marketing folks take that one single injury mechanism and turn it into "mouthpieces prevent concussions!"

I hate the thought that false marketing claims could result in more injuries to our children because we believed that a bit of plastic on their teeth will protect them.

As far as protecting our teeth I agree whole heartedly with the Protech mouthguard. It fits really well and provides good protection.