P88 Curve Rocker causing all heel tape wear. Cut it down or get used to it?

[Mikej411 2]

Mike, do you have access to a hockey shop nearby with all sorts of sticks? I had the same issues you speak of in terms of missing passes, etc. I found the p88 just had so little blade on the ice due to rocker that I had to be perfect all the time when receiving passes or making moves. I tried every stick in the store and settled on the datsyuk, perhaps you can try every stick and see what you like? I would love a p88 and p38 (datsyuk rbk) hybrid, basically a p88 with less rocker and more oblong toe...especially at the bottom for drags.

Thats exactly how I feel. P88 with less rocker

As Chadd mentioned, lie measurements are not standardized between brands AT ALL. They're completely unreliable, you really just have to compare curves in person to know whether a given curve is higher or lower lie than another. Based on the Easton scale (lie 5 = Modano lie; lie 6 = Sakic lie), the P88 is roughly a lie 5.5 - 5.75, while the Datsyuk is roughly a lie 4.75 - 5, you moved to a significantly higher lie blade.

With that being said, looking at that picture I really don't think the tape wear looks too bad, it's not all on the heel or anything, it's reasonably close to mid blade. Just keep playing, try to get used to it, the problems may resolve. Also, as others have mentioned you never want to be catching passes near the toe anyway, regardless of the curve. You should always catch passes in the mid-heel area, hard passes that hit your stick near the toe will blast through regardless of the curve you're using.

As for the Bauer P12, it's basically the same curve as the Easton Iginla. A fairly closed mid curve, without a lot of rocker. However, I'd say if anything the lie is a touch higher than the P88 (more of a true lie 6), and significantly higher than the Rbk Datsyuk, so not sure that it would work for you. If you want a closed, mid or mid-heel curve with a lower lie and not much rocker that ISN'T a Rbk Datsyuk, then you could try a Modano type curve (like the Bauer PM9), though it's a bit more mild than the P88. Alternately, the Bauer P14 might work for you too, though it's more open than the P88 and more of a mid-toe as well.

The tape was completely worn off though. I guess it wasnt directly at the heel, however I wasnt get any toe wear at all and very slight mid-toe wear. I think I may try it a couple more times though.

Why do you say the Datsyuk and P88 are closed curves? On the reebok/bauer curve pattern charts, it says Datsyuk is 'Open' and P88 is 'Slightly Open'. This means they are not closed.

[glu 1]

Wait a second, you said you liked the Datsyuk, but wanted a lower kickpoint? Isn't that a function of the shaft, not the curve?

What stick is your Reebok? If you were using an Ai.9, a 20K/16K should accomplish what you want, no?

[Mikej411 2]

Wait a second, you said you liked the Datsyuk, but wanted a lower kickpoint? Isn't that a function of the shaft, not the curve?

What stick is your Reebok? If you were using an Ai.9, a 20K/16K should accomplish what you want, no?

Actually yes. And this is the route I may end up taking. I would prefer the P88 with less rocker, but will settle for datsyuk in the sickkick reebok line. I just dont like the square toe in the Datsyuk.

Does Bauer do custom sticks where I can order a P88 style curve with less rocker or lie?

[Chadd 916]

no, they don't allow any real customization for retail purchases and most of the things available on "custom" sticks to retail customers are merely cosmetic.

[chippa13 1844]

 

i had a similar issue moving from a p88 to the iginla. I cut the sticks down to the same size as my P88s and the stick felt too tall. I was getting nothing but tape wear on the heel. I cut the stick about an 1.5" or so and I still get tape wear on the heel, but I feel so much more comfortable with it. Now if I could just get my slap shots back I would be a happy camper.

 

Remember, with switching blade patterns at a similar lie that you have to take blade length into consideration when cutting the stick to size. Since the P12 is a shorter blade than the P88, it makes sense that you would have to cut more off the end to get the stick to "play" the same length for the P12 as the P88.

[davidfinlay276 4]

Thats exactly how I feel. P88 with less rocker

The tape was completely worn off though. I guess it wasnt directly at the heel, however I wasnt get any toe wear at all and very slight mid-toe wear. I think I may try it a couple more times though.

Why do you say the Datsyuk and P88 are closed curves? On the reebok/bauer curve pattern charts, it says Datsyuk is 'Open' and P88 is 'Slightly Open'. This means they are not closed.

They're reasonably closed curves. A very open curve would be something like the Ovy pro clones, and pretty open curve would be something like a Drury/P91A, a moderately open curve would be something like a Sakic/P92, the Datsyuk and P88 would both qualify as pretty closed for me. Just look at the blades, you'll see that neither curve is very open at all. Not sure where you're seeing the Datsyuk listed as open, but I definitely do not agree, slightly open at most.

[Mikej411 2]

They're reasonably closed curves. A very open curve would be something like the Ovy pro clones, and pretty open curve would be something like a Drury/P91A, a moderately open curve would be something like a Sakic/P92, the Datsyuk and P88 would both qualify as pretty closed for me. Just look at the blades, you'll see that neither curve is very open at all. Not sure where you're seeing the Datsyuk listed as open, but I definitely do not agree, slightly open at most.

Everywhere I saw online says Datsyuk is open, as well as P88

[mjpisat 36]

What retail blades have lower lies that the p88. I thought it was at the lower end.

I have a lot of heel wear too but don't feel I have problems playing.

I would like to try a pm9 type but there isn't much curve to it

[Chadd 916]

Everywhere I saw online says Datsyuk is open, as well as P88

Most places just quote the catalog

What retail blades have lower lies that the p88. I thought it was at the lower end.

I have a lot of heel wear too but don't feel I have problems playing.

I would like to try a pm9 type but there isn't much curve to it

PM9 has plenty of curve for me, I don't like deep curves, it takes away my backahand passes and shots. Base hockey has sticks with lower lies than most other retailers.

[steelnation248 102]

Is the W88 a lower lie than the P88? I haven't used the P88 in some time but I remember it being closer to a 5.5 on the Easton scale but the W88 seems more like a 5.

[mjpisat 36]

Let me make sure I got this straight.

I'll take two blades, the P88 and the PM9. I think according to the easton scale one may be a 5.5 and the other a 5.

so you start with the p88 and you're getting the heel wear on your tape, and you're worried the lie isn't right. you can do the following:

1. if you cut the stick shorter and keep the same hand position, it will bring the blade closer to your body, put less heel and more toe on the ice.

2. if you are right handed, you can change your hand position and bring your left elbow way out which will also bring the blade closer.

if you don't want to change hand position or stick length you can go to a less rockered, lower lie blade like the pm9 which will put more blade on the ice.

that sound right?

i think i read somewhere that a less rockered blade like the pm9 vs p88 will help with your shot. Just curious how? I can see how it helps with passing accuracy, catching passes, just not sure about shots though.

[chippa13 1844]

Everyone player is different because of skating style and shooting technique so a less rockered blade will be better for some than others. There is no rule of what type of blade works best.

[innotastic 12]

Is the W88 a lower lie than the P88? I haven't used the P88 in some time but I remember it being closer to a 5.5 on the Easton scale but the W88 seems more like a 5.

the w88 and the p88 is the exact same curve. there is essentially zero noticeable differences.

[steelnation248 102]

the w88 and the p88 is the exact same curve. there is essentially zero noticeable differences.

Ahh, thank you! I guess my memory is failing me. Haha

[davidfinlay276 4]

Everywhere I saw online says Datsyuk is open, as well as P88

You have both blades in front of you, not sure why you wouldn't just look at them, they're clearly both close to being fully closed. On a scale of 1-10, with 1 being completely closed, and 10 being a super open curve like the true Ovechkin pro clones (Warrior KGB, CCM Crazy Ovi, etc.), the P88 and Datsyuk would both be about a 1.5 in terms of openness.

[colins 246]

Everywhere I saw online says Datsyuk is open, as well as P88

Regardless of what sites or even the catalog quotes, the P88 and the Reebok Datsyuk curves are about as closed as you can find while still having a moderate to deep curve in just about any retail pattern I've come across lately. I guess instead of Closed vs. Open there needs to be another term used to describe these - Neutral. The P4 in Easton (Zetterberg in the SE16 blades I have, Cammalleri today?) is pretty close to perfectly neutral in my opinion - it's as if you curved the blade without tipping the top of the toe forward at all (closing it) or backward (opening it).

The P88 and the Datsyuk take essentially the same approach but apply a deeper curve (P4/Zetterberg being typically listed as a 3/8" depth starting closer to the heel vs. 1/2" depth right in the middle of the blade for the P88).

If you're seeing anything different especially with wooden Easton blades like I see at hockey stores here in Canada it could be just an anomaly with an individual blade. One Piece Sticks are probably a lot more consistent, but for blade/shaft combos particularly with wooden blades I've see huge differences in a batch of blades all stamped with the same pattern. I've also weighed them and found the wooden blades can vary by up to 10-20g's for the same model same pattern!

I've tried a few open curves but being a kid of the 80's I just haven't been able to adapt. I think anyone who learned to take a wrist shot "the old fashioned way" from the heel following through to the toe probably struggles to hit the target with a significantly open curve. This new fangled method of loading up the stick by applying pressure with the toe turned down and shooting just off the toe of the blade is probably too new a trick for this old dog to learn :)

Give me a P88 or a Datsyuk any day - call them Closed or call them Neutral but don't call them Open cause they're not. :-)

Colin

[steelnation248 102]

You have to take manufacture's specs with a grain of salt. It's better to see them in person and judge for yourself. Some companies lies they list on the stick can be completely different than they play due to rocker, advertised weights on sticks are always quite lower than they actually are, curve depth/openness/location listings can make you perceive it differently than it really is.

That being said, the P88 is definitely not an open curve. Closed/Neutral for sure.

[strosedefence34 179]

what is the closest curve to a P88 in easton? I am using a iginla right now, but the guy in my LHS said its the heatley.

[colins 246]

what is the closest curve to a P88 in easton? I am using a iginla right now, but the guy in my LHS said its the heatley.

I would call the Iginla (P7 / E7) closest as it has a similar high lie (Bauer 6, Easton 5.5). The Heatley (P9 / E9) is essentially the same curve/profile but with a slightly lower lie (Easton lie 5) and a slightly different toe shape (square top and bottom of the toe, whereas Iginla is rounded on the top).

Reebok has a very similar thing happening with the P38 Datsyuk and P40 Hedman. Essentially the same curves, Datsyuk is a higher lie (6 vs. 5 for the Hedman). In the Reebok case both toes are square, but the Datsyuk blade is physically longer than the Hedman.

If you like the shape of any of these 5 curves (Bauer P88, Easton P7/P9, Reebok P38/P40), you can play around with the other 4 and really hone in on your preference for optimal lie, toe shape, and blade length. I think it's a great reason to pick up a standard two piece shaft and a couple of Reebok/Easton/Bauer blades to experiment with. Then grab a can of Plastidip to coat the joint/hosel and nobody can even tell you're mixing and matching different brands :-)

A top of the line Bauer TotalOne NXG shaft is just over a hundred bucks at popular online hockey shops in the U.S. Also some great Warrior options out there on clearance for under $75. Good blades run from $40-$60.

Might be a good option for anyone who wants to tinker with their setup before committing $200+ on a high end OPS only to find out it doesn't quite work for them.

Colin

[strosedefence34 179]

I would call the Iginla (P7 / E7) closest as it has a similar high lie (Bauer 6, Easton 5.5). The Heatley (P9 / E9) is essentially the same curve/profile but with a slightly lower lie (Easton lie 5) and a slightly different toe shape (square top and bottom of the toe, whereas Iginla is rounded on the top).

Reebok has a very similar thing happening with the P38 Datsyuk and P40 Hedman. Essentially the same curves, Datsyuk is a higher lie (6 vs. 5 for the Hedman). In the Reebok case both toes are square, but the Datsyuk blade is physically longer than the Hedman.

If you like the shape of any of these 5 curves (Bauer P88, Easton P7/P9, Reebok P38/P40), you can play around with the other 4 and really hone in on your preference for optimal lie, toe shape, and blade length. I think it's a great reason to pick up a standard two piece shaft and a couple of Reebok/Easton/Bauer blades to experiment with. Then grab a can of Plastidip to coat the joint/hosel and nobody can even tell you're mixing and matching different brands :-)

A top of the line Bauer TotalOne NXG shaft is just over a hundred bucks at popular online hockey shops in the U.S. Also some great Warrior options out there on clearance for under $75. Good blades run from $40-$60.

Might be a good option for anyone who wants to tinker with their setup before committing $200+ on a high end OPS only to find out it doesn't quite work for them.

Colin

thanks colin. I have read the specks on these two curves back and front and I still don't see how he says the heatley is closer then the iginla. He said the heatley was a little deeper and would feel more like the P88, but it has a lower lie. I was using a P88 forever at least 10 years and I got a great deal on these RSII so I have made the switch and I just still don't feel as comfortable with them yet. I have been using them since november.

[Mikej411 2]

I would call the Iginla (P7 / E7) closest as it has a similar high lie (Bauer 6, Easton 5.5). The Heatley (P9 / E9) is essentially the same curve/profile but with a slightly lower lie (Easton lie 5) and a slightly different toe shape (square top and bottom of the toe, whereas Iginla is rounded on the top).

Reebok has a very similar thing happening with the P38 Datsyuk and P40 Hedman. Essentially the same curves, Datsyuk is a higher lie (6 vs. 5 for the Hedman). In the Reebok case both toes are square, but the Datsyuk blade is physically longer than the Hedman.

If you like the shape of any of these 5 curves (Bauer P88, Easton P7/P9, Reebok P38/P40), you can play around with the other 4 and really hone in on your preference for optimal lie, toe shape, and blade length. I think it's a great reason to pick up a standard two piece shaft and a couple of Reebok/Easton/Bauer blades to experiment with. Then grab a can of Plastidip to coat the joint/hosel and nobody can even tell you're mixing and matching different brands :-)

A top of the line Bauer TotalOne NXG shaft is just over a hundred bucks at popular online hockey shops in the U.S. Also some great Warrior options out there on clearance for under $75. Good blades run from $40-$60.

Might be a good option for anyone who wants to tinker with their setup before committing $200+ on a high end OPS only to find out it doesn't quite work for them.

Colin

What are the advantages/disadvantages of having a smaller blade? I am now deciding between the Datsyuk and the Hedman

[colins 246]

What are the advantages/disadvantages of having a smaller blade? I am now deciding between the Datsyuk and the Hedman

I would say (and these are generalities - not sure if any of this has ever been scientifically proven) the advantages of a smaller blade are:

- Allows for tighter/quicker stick handling

- Less tendency for the blade to flex especially on shots off the toe (although this is mostly a function of the stiffness of the blade to begin with)

- Less resistance during windup/follow through on a slapshot although I don't know if that's statistically relevant. Anyone know of any studies?

Advantages of a longer blade:

- Better for take-aways. More blade to use to reach in on an opposing player

- Allows for greater range of motion during stick handling - moving the puck up from the heel to the toe - more blade to work with

- Better for receiving passes - again more blade to work with

I mostly see the big blade / small blade comparison at the minor hockey level when you have kids still using a Junior pattern playing against kids who have moved up to a senior pattern in an Intermediate stick. The larger blade on the Intermediate stick is a definite advantage during puck battles.

As far as a senior hedman vs. a senior datysuk - the difference would be much more subtle. If you're a winger and you get involved with a lot of puck battles along the wall the extra bit of length might help your game. If you're more of a quick hands / quick release type player you might find the larger paddle slows you up a bit or doesn't suit your style as well.

Hey - Another great reason to pick up a good two piece shaft and a couple of blades to play around with! :)

Colin