Embellishment

[Jason Harris 31]

Just a quick YT search turned this up. Imagine how many others there are that I haven't seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ8ckLKEl_c

Is it possible that Chara "embelished" his reactions to make sure the refs knew he was being held? Sure, but it doesn't seem so.

Was he being held? Yes

[wrangler 157]

Based on the Cap player's reaction, I'd say it was unintentional as he immediately appears to apologize/check on Marchand.

Fair enough, my only point was that I didn't think it was a dive.

Agree, that wasn't a slew foot, incidental contact.

Accidental, fine, but I don't know what to call it, other than a slew foot, and not a dive.

[icewalker_bg 126]

?

[Jason Harris 31]

Even if Van Riemsdyk's stick hit just above the padding on Stralman's shin pad, it's hard to imagine that there was enough force behind the stick to have caused that much pain.

[chippa13 1844]

Shouldn't have been any kind of penalty but the ref probably just heard pad and saw Stralman hit the ice and assumed something happened.

[Larry54 243]

Haha! Since I posted those two videos there has been a lot of denial around here for reasons too obvious to be worth mentioning. What's also obvious is that whether your arms flail like Subban upon being hit on the numbers by Thornton, or whether you're doing pirouettes like Chara and Marchand, which may be a result of trying to sell an actual real penalty, most times embellishment is in the eye of the beholder. So to expect the league to hand out supplementary punishment for embellishment is ludicrous since it can hardly ever be based on hard evidence. And if you handed out supplementary discipline when there was no original diving call, then it's like the league saying that the ref missed a call. No win situation.

[Jason Harris 31]

most times embellishment is in the eye of the beholder.

Sure, embellishment is in the eyes of the beholder.

But you made a statement that doesn't skew with what I've seen from watching the last seven years of his career, so I asked for examples. You posted links to plays from the past two weeks in which it was clear that the opponent grabbed Chara or his jersey. So there's no question whether that player should have received a penalty; the only question is whether Chara should have received a matching two for unsportsmanlike. Based on watching 500 games and not really seeing the guy pull antics, I take it at face value that an opponent caught him at the right angle to impact Chara's balance, although I admit it doesn't look like Chara fought hard to maintain his balance in the Gonchar play.

Think about football. Sometimes a running back plows over a linebacker, yet other times a hand tackle to the ankle brings him down.

[Larry54 243]

Sure, embellishment is in the eyes of the beholder.

But you made a statement that doesn't skew with what I've seen from watching the last seven years of his career, so I asked for examples. You posted links to plays from the past two weeks in which it was clear that the opponent grabbed Chara or his jersey. So there's no question whether that player should have received a penalty; the only question is whether Chara should have received a matching two for unsportsmanlike. Based on watching 500 games and not really seeing the guy pull antics, I take it at face value that an opponent caught him at the right angle to impact Chara's balance, although I admit it doesn't look like Chara fought hard to maintain his balance in the Gonchar play.

Think about football. Sometimes a running back plows over a linebacker, yet other times a hand tackle to the ankle brings him down.

Go back and re-read my original post. My statement was "Chara has easily caught up to Subban this season in the embellishment category." So obviously, I had to post videos of this season to support my claim. As to whether it was a dive or not, there's definitely no consensus among hockey fans. I'll leave it at that.

[chippa13 1844]

There will be no consensus among anyone except Montreal and possibly a few still bitter Ottawa fans that Chara could be even remotely close to Subban in the embellishment category.

That said, the purpose of this thread was to find a solution to the problem and everyone seems to agree that either making embellishment a double minor or 2 + 10 penalty would be the way to go, granted the officials make those calls.

[pbhockey4 0]

Good example of what a reputation can do -- there's a slewfoot on Marchand in there, regarded as a dive.

No pretty much aimed at Marchard since hes a prick and dives quite a lot

[Machinehead2k5 32]

I think Andrew Shaw embellishes both the crosscheck and shoulder to the body.

[zachary 2]

Considering he got up pretty quick to join the scrum I'd say so.

[Trooper 8]

Accidental, fine, but I don't know what to call it, other than a slew foot, and not a dive.

Slew foot has the connotation that it was intentional, it doesn't apply every time two players' skates make contact. It also applies when the offendinding player comes from behind with his skate, which I don't believe happened there.

[wrangler 157]

I think Andrew Shaw embellishes both the crosscheck and shoulder to the body.

He got up quickly after the cross-check, and took a nice hit the second time, took his time getting up, and got energized when he saw teammates getting into a mix in the corner. I think you're way off base on this; I haven't seen embellishment as part of Shaw's game.

[Machinehead2k5 32]

He got up quickly after the cross-check, and took a nice hit the second time, took his time getting up, and got energized when he saw teammates getting into a mix in the corner. I think you're way off base on this; I haven't seen embellishment as part of Shaw's game.

It wasn't much of a crosscheck and he grabs his face when he gets shoulder to chest checked and snaps his head back.

[chippa13 1844]

I don't have a dog in this fight, Shaw absolutely embellished the check as a crushing blow to the chin.

[Chadd 916]

I don't see a flop on the cross check, the head spin could be due to the spinning nature of the hit or it could be a desire to make sure there was a call for at least one of the incidents. I've seen a lot of him this season and I haven't seen any other incidents that are questionable. I'm willing to give a guy the benefit of the doubt the first time I see it happen.

[hunt3rsean 44]

Cross-check to Shaw was not a sell. He was skating backwards while leaning forwards. Cross-check was to the higher back. You'd go down just as fast in that situation.

I'm on the fence with the check. His body movement is on par with the direction of the hit. But it seems he does try to sell the head/face contact a little bit. Although, it does look like the Blues player may have followed through with the elbow a little and due to the height difference could have connected with Shaw's chin?

But at the same point it's hard for me to blame him after all the cross-checks he received in that game with no calls. At some point you just throw your hands up and try to sell one to get a call.

I read an article awhile back that mentioned NHL players all try to sell a call at some point. The NHL is so fast and physical that many things go unnoticed and that the only way to get the call (or have the ref notice) is to embellish. It's not always the case and as a NHL pro non-calls are a type of thing you should just understand. But, it is a reason why embellishment happens.

[Chadd 916]

But at the same point it's hard for me to blame him after all the cross-checks he received in that game with no calls. At some point you just throw your hands up and try to sell one to get a call.

Teams have figured out that the best way to beat the Hawks is to beat them up and knock a couple guys out of the lineup. It has gotten worse as the season has progressed and I shudder to think of what the playoffs will be like.

[wrangler 157]

That's exactly what I was thinking about, when we heard the announcers talking about a potential playoff matchup against the Blues.