Possibly ignorant new skates questions: switching RBZ holders and/ or steel, LHS questions

[digitalpunk30 1]

This explanation may be long-winded, as I have several questions, and am still new, so I apologize in advance.

My skate boots have started to break down some, and have become uncomfortable. My friend and I stopped in to a LHS after scrimmage last week to pick up a few things. The shop had the CCM RBZs that I have been wanting to try on, so I asked if they would mind me doing so, even though I didn't know if I would be buying that day. They said no problem, measured my foot and put me in a size 4, which felt really comfortable, and made me hem and haw about buying after all. Great! So here is where a bunch of questions came up. I have two sets of StepSteel that noicing has done a lovely job with for me, and I love them. Obviously, the RBZ does not come with an epro holder, so I asked if it was possible to put epros on RBZs. I was told that while it was possible, it would be silly, because holders are mounted perfectly at the factory and it would be impossible to just eyeball and line up new holders that well; and of course that new holes would have to be drilled in the boot. Then one of the employees noticed that the holders were different sizes anyway (my skates are a size 5, thus 255). So I explained what radius and sharpening I have currently, which is the one suggested by noicing, which is a combo radius and FBV, and asked if they could put that on the steel that comes on the RBZs. The guy started laughing and I was told that in theory they could, but it would be a week (I can understand waiting for things, that part is fine) and that no place actually does radius anymore, the days of radius bars are over, and all that happens is someone eyeballs it- and additionally, that the radius would get messed up the first time they got sharpened anyway. Suffice to say I did not plunk down four hundred bucks for the skates.

I am no expert and I don't pretend to be- I have no idea what part of the combo radius and FBV suggested by noicing makes me feel so comfortable on the ice, and I haven't tried to switch anything to figure it out because *it works for me* and that is all I care about. I do know I do not like the stock 10' radius on CCM's, as that is what I was skating on before a bad sharpen flattened out and overheating one of my runners, which led me to buying a replacement set, which led me here for research, and eventually ended with me getting a set of StepSteel from noicing, and then ordering a second set. I also know that somehow noicing manages to send me runners that consistently feel the exact same, every time I swap them out; and I do not even spend half a second adjusting when I switch runners to send a set in. I have a hard time believing this consistency could be maintained simply by eyeballing a set of runners, much less keeping them consistent with another set that is across the country. For these reasons, I do not trust what I was told at the LHS, and so I have my original questions, plus some shop-ish questions now added to them.

1- would it be ridiculous/ stupid to swap the 255 epros I currently have onto an RBZ boot a size down? I know I have heard some people on here speak of swapping runner sizes, I am just not sure how good or bad an idea it is.

2- I do not have the heels shaved down on my stepsteel. To my uneducated eye, it seems the heel is at least somewhat shaved on the RBZ steel. I know I do not like how CCM steel skates even after I sent my old ones to noicing to have them matched to my stepsteel radius, I assume the heel is part of that? Thus, perhaps, I would not like the stock RBZ steel for the sa e reason, even if it was reradiused? Or am I missing something?

3- Does anyone know if stepsteel will be making replacement runners for the RBZ sometime soon?

4- Does anyone know if the RBZ boots can be bought alone?

5- What is a person supposed to do, when one LHS only stocks older gear, and this LHS seems to want me to just buy the skates as is, regardless of what I would like (frankly, I wouldn't want them touching my skates anyway now). I am not a person who buys things online and prefer to support local businesses, but I don't like being treated like that.

FWIW, I am new to playing hockey,I started in February, but I am not new to skating. I am on the ice 4x/ wk, and the CCM V05s I purchased to use for the first year are not holding up as well as I had hoped. I take good care to dry and clean my equipment. This is how I ended up in the market for new, upgraded skate boots in the first place.

Thank you for any insight and for the many answers I have found on MSH already.

-Jen

[Buzz_LightBeer 975]

Hello, I was one of the guys helping you that day, and while I'm sorry you disagreed with our opinion, I feel there were some valid points made when we sized you for new skates.

1- The boot you are currently in was middle of the road when it was new a number of years ago, and a transition to the RBZ boot, in the proper size should give you more stability and confidence in the skate.

2- while inspecting your skates, it was my opinion that the 255 E-pro you are currently on was too long, and would be impractical to put them one the RBZ as you would have part of the holder extending beyond the boot.

3- admittedly, I am not overly familiar with step steel, but in our market we have had minimal requests for the product and therefore do not stock them. I do not know if the product will be available for RBZ holders in the near future.

4- being from Milwaukee, there are no places in the area which have the capability to radius a skate blade. To attempt to duplicate your current radius on our sharpener is not feasible, as it would be completely by eyeball.

5- chances are very slim that Reebok would have a size 4 RBZ boot only pair for sale, I believe they would ship from overseas assembled, but I could be incorrect.

I'm sorry you had such a sour experience with our store, but in my opinion, a properly sized skate, with the inherent technology, should usurp the perceived benefits of your current steel set up. I wish you the best of luck finding the set up which works for you best, whether from us or another outlet.

[jimmy 194]

STEP is making RBZ Steel. But changing to that is not going to see much performance enhancement, particularly because the RBZ holder is higher, so with RBZ steel, it's almost equal to Epros with STEPS.

CCM steel has always been "shaved" somewhat from the factory. IMO this is bad to do from a performance standpoint but it does make transitioning to a new skate a little easier. Swapping holders would be a bad idea for many reasons. If you are thinking to do this to save money, you wont because the swap will cost $60-70 and you could just buy a second set of RBZ steel for that. I suggest you get the skates if you like them, then get your combo radius on them.

[digitalpunk30 1]

Buzz, I apologize if my post comes off as bashing your store/ service as that was not my intent. I am not a very articulate person but I did try to write the situation as it happened. I have had good service from your store in the past and in fact, you and the other gentleman helped me with other things that day. I appreciate your response here.

Jimmy, thank you for the additional information. I do realize the steel on the RBZs is good steel and likely not a performance difference from stepsteel, it sounds like the heel portion is just somthing I would have to get used to.

Thank you both for your answers on the other questions, which may sound silly or ignorant to you, but really are just a result of me brainstorming how to get new, better skates that still feel similar on the ice to what I am used to. I do not have a local source to talk about hockey equipment as no one I play with is interested in being a gear nerd, thus I asked the questions here.

-Jen

[squat 5]

First off Him telling you he cant swap for rivet reasons is lame. Totally lame. Next I would just send your steel to No Icing. Step is not going to make you faster, ALTHOUGH hte hockey shop SHOULD know what step steel is or I begin to question a lot of their knowledge.

I would just buy a second pair of the CCM steel and send both to noicing.

PLENTLY of NHL pros use LS3 and are fine with it. I had every brand of steel for my old LS2 Holders, Step, step black chrome, LS3, LS fusion, blackedge. There was no drop off in speed or ability in any of them. The black chrome and blackedge, did keep an edge for a long time. Thats all. They keep an edge longer.

[Monty22 835]

First off Him telling you he cant swap for rivet reasons is lame. Totally lame. Next I would just send your steel to No Icing. Step is not going to make you faster, ALTHOUGH hte hockey shop SHOULD know what step steel is or I begin to question a lot of their knowledge.

I would just buy a second pair of the CCM steel and send both to noicing.

Did you read Buzz's post? I' m going to guess no.....

PLENTLY of NHL pros use LS3 and are fine with it. I had every brand of steel for my old LS2 Holders, Step, step black chrome, LS3, LS fusion, blackedge. There was no drop off in speed or ability in any of them. The black chrome and blackedge, did keep an edge for a long time. Thats all. They keep an edge longer.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Not going to go into a long winded my opinion however I disagree with swapping the holders DEPENDING on your size and stature. If your going down in size due to being fitted with a slightly larger skate before however the longer blade works well for you swapping them properly should be a non issue. One of the fastest US womens players to date was a lady by the name of Kristen King. She wore a 1.5 boot and used a size 3 TUUK holder. She used to wear a 3 but when she was playing in Canada in the NWHL after University we realized her skates were breaking down because they were 2 big after getting her refit we tried to no end to make the blade profile match the size 3 and nothing seemed to work. We switched the to the old holder with new steel and old profile and it was like a 4th of July with the smile she had. Heading to the Worlds and training in Lake Placid I was able to do 3 sets of steel for her and the trainer just swapped them out. While there I was told she ranked 4th overall in speed on the team behind Krissy Wendal Jenny Potter and Kim Insalaco (Kim another player of mine at the time)

Ok that was long winded........anyway the moral of the story is here that women have longer legs and shorter torso and can handle a longer holder with not as much of an issue. Then you have your No-icing profile and blades and more of a custom boot setup. Just make sure the holes from the previous holder are filled with an epoxy that can be drilled through after if the hole is close and you may need a few extra coppers for strength.

ok done my 2 cents....or 2.14 in canadian compared to US.

[Buzz_LightBeer 975]

First off Him telling you he cant swap for rivet reasons is lame. Totally lame. Next I would just send your steel to No Icing. Step is not going to make you faster, ALTHOUGH hte hockey shop SHOULD know what step steel is or I begin to question a lot of their knowledge.

I take it you skimmed over my response. I am familiar with Step Steel, but demand in our market is minuscule at best, and does not warrant stocking them.

Secondly, the vector skates had a 255 holder, size 4 RBZ skates have a size 238 holder, TWO sizes smaller. Comparing the two, I made an observation that the holder is too long to be adequately attached to the RBZ boot. It would not make sense to tear someone's new skate apart only to find that the front, or rear (or both) rivets were not able to be adequately secured to the boot.

My opinion, what seemed to be the most cost effective is this; if the RBZ boot fits comfortably, go with them. Try the stock holder, and if it is not suited to the skaters liking, then adjust the radius. Sell the Step Steel in 255 to recoup some cost, and look at Step Steel for the RBZ boot if that's what the skater wishes.

Please don't take your experience as a "take the easy way out" approach. Rather the simplest, most cost effective method of getting you in the right skate. A complete holder swap, with new radiused steel make a $300 cost $400+ before you ever step on the ice. The RBZ skate provides a top of the line boot with their top of the line steel. You may very well try a stock RBZ skate, fitted properly, and never look back. If not, then explore secondary options.

[mojo122 541]

ok done my 2 cents....or 2.14 in canadian compared to US.

Way to rub in it

[digitalpunk30 1]

Buzz did know what StepSteel was, and I do not in any way think there is a performance difference between the steel on the RBZ vs StepSteel. My concern soley rested with the radius and heel, which are questions that have now been answered. My question about he holder and swapping them lie with my inexperience and also having read that others had done it- so I was looking for opinions on that.

I very much appreciate the ideas and opinions you have all written. I am used to being able to have conversations about equipment like this with my friends (about mountain bikes), but again, no one I know here cares about their radius or what advantage/disadvantage a certan piece of gear has, so I posted here. I don't post often but I read a lot on this site and have learned a lot of things.

I didn't intend to start disagreements, I was just wondering what others thought.

[mojo122 541]

Buzz is extremely knowledgeable. Having a skate that fits is key. Easy enough to invest in a second set of steel and have the new runners profiled to what works best for you.

[digitalpunk30 1]

I just want to clarify, my question about swapping for epro holders was not intended to mean swap for the holders I currently have, but to swap for an appropriately sized epro for the size 4. While in the store, it was obvious even to my uneducated eye that my current 255s will not fit on that boot. Originally in the store, I did think that might be an option, until we all took a look at both skates and this was pointed out to me. The question about this swap was soley because of the heel on the stepsteel, not because of some odd attachment to my current holders, or because I thought it offered a performance advantage over the top of the line RBZ steel.

I don't doubt that Buzz is very knowledgeable, I have read many posts here by him that are extremely helpful.

[jimmy 194]

Way to rub in it

Especially since $2.12 of that is GST.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

gotta love that GST..... As for holders being longer as long as the front and back can be re-riveted can be drilled. As I mentioned above I took a 230 and had it firmly installed on a 1.5 boot. So a 255 depending on the outsole should be able to be installed if it was really wanted.

That being said I do not have the skates in front of me so I will not say its a for sure just know I have done 2 sizes when needed.

[squat 5]

Please don't take your experience as a "take the easy way out" approach. Rather the simplest, most cost effective method of getting you in the right skate. A complete holder swap, with new radiused steel make a $300 cost $400+ before you ever step on the ice. The RBZ skate provides a top of the line boot with their top of the line steel. You may very well try a stock RBZ skate, fitted properly, and never look back. If not, then explore secondary options.

You are kidding me. 300$!!!! I just did that with putting LS edge holders on my NXG's radiused 2 sets of LS3 and it cost me less than 150. It was 25$ to put on the holders. I am sure Buzz has a great deal of product and fit knowledge. However seems Old trainerguy, and myself are on the same page and he seems to have a TON of steel knowledge a its not always about skate fit. I think Buzz can admit he sold plenty of skates that kids wanted, IE APX when they should have been in a different skate.

Point is Jen wants a certain holder and blade. I have seen good skate guys shoehorn holders on skates and some even had to trim the holder.

Oh and BTW I have 4-6 holes drilled in all my skates in the mid foot area for air flow. Never hurt the skate. Then again I am the guy that Doesnt buy the Bauer marketing and refuse to believe all skates will fit all feet. I am not a gear whore and play more than I collect gear. Two things I care about with my game, skates, inlcuding steel, I have used every brand ran about 10 different radius, changed many holders, and profiles, The other thing I care about is my twig, and the curve is the last thing I care about. So Yeah take my opinion with a grain of salt. Most guys on MS have WAY more experience with steel and skates because they work at a LHS. In my travels I have run into a number of you guys, and if your gear matched you skills they could take the pylon and egg crates away..... ;)

gotta love that GST..... As for holders being longer as long as the front and back can be re-riveted can be drilled. As I mentioned above I took a 230 and had it firmly installed on a 1.5 boot. So a 255 depending on the outsole should be able to be installed if it was really wanted.

That being said I do not have the skates in front of me so I will not say its a for sure just know I have done 2 sizes when needed.

EXACTLY!!!! The bold comment brings into question the salesmans vast exp.... And it didnt cost 300$+ CDN to do it either.... If that was the case I would open my own shop.

[notquitedeadyet 13]

You are kidding me. 300$!!!! I just did that with putting LS edge holders on my NXG's radiused 2 sets of LS3 and it cost me less than 150. It was 25$ to put on the holders.

.... And it didnt cost 300$+ CDN to do it either.... If that was the case I would open my own shop.

I think you need to re-read the original post you quoted.

Looks to me like Buzz might have just forgot the word "skate"

[jimmy 194]

You paid less than $150 for a pair of Edge holders, 2 sets of LS3 steel, 2 radius and holder installation? Wow, that's cheap. You must have got a bunch of stuff free. Even using hockeymonkey pricing, a set of holders not installed is $70 and one set of LS3 edge steel is $70. That's $140 right there and that does not include radius and installation.

You are kidding me. 300$!!!! I just did that with putting LS edge holders on my NXG's radiused 2 sets of LS3 and it cost me less than 150. It was 25$ to put on the holders.

[Buzz_LightBeer 975]

I think you need to re-read the original post you quoted.

Looks to me like Buzz might have just forgot the word "skate"

Exactly, thank you. I was only making the point that removing holders, adding a new set, with new steel, adds $100-150 to the price of the skate before they've even been skated on. I misquoted the price of junior RBZ as 300, when it should have read 400.

[mickz 107]

You are kidding me. 300$!!!! I just did that with putting LS edge holders on my NXG's radiused 2 sets of LS3 and it cost me less than 150. It was 25$ to put on the holders. I am sure Buzz has a great deal of product and fit knowledge. However seems Old trainerguy, and myself are on the same page and he seems to have a TON of steel knowledge a its not always about skate fit. I think Buzz can admit he sold plenty of skates that kids wanted, IE APX when they should have been in a different skate.

Point is Jen wants a certain holder and blade. I have seen good skate guys shoehorn holders on skates and some even had to trim the holder.

Oh and BTW I have 4-6 holes drilled in all my skates in the mid foot area for air flow. Never hurt the skate. Then again I am the guy that Doesnt buy the Bauer marketing and refuse to believe all skates will fit all feet. I am not a gear whore and play more than I collect gear. Two things I care about with my game, skates, inlcuding steel, I have used every brand ran about 10 different radius, changed many holders, and profiles, The other thing I care about is my twig, and the curve is the last thing I care about. So Yeah take my opinion with a grain of salt. Most guys on MS have WAY more experience with steel and skates because they work at a LHS. In my travels I have run into a number of you guys, and if your gear matched you skills they could take the pylon and egg crates away..... ;)

EXACTLY!!!! The bold comment brings into question the salesmans vast exp.... And it didnt cost 300$+ CDN to do it either.... If that was the case I would open my own shop.

I'd like to know where I can get this deal for myself. My LHS would charge way more than $150 for the parts you mentioned alone.

[forbs02 20]

I just want to clarify, my question about swapping for epro holders was not intended to mean swap for the holders I currently have, but to swap for an appropriately sized epro for the size 4. While in the store, it was obvious even to my uneducated eye that my current 255s will not fit on that boot. Originally in the store, I did think that might be an option, until we all took a look at both skates and this was pointed out to me. The question about this swap was soley because of the heel on the stepsteel, not because of some odd attachment to my current holders, or because I thought it offered a performance advantage over the top of the line RBZ steel.

I don't doubt that Buzz is very knowledgeable, I have read many posts here by him that are extremely helpful.

Yes, you can swap for epro holders on an RBZ skate. I did it for one of my players this fall. She didn't like the speed blade holders at all. I did have to drill some holes, but it wasn't a complicated mount.

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

Yes, you can swap for epro holders on an RBZ skate. I did it for one of my players this fall. She didn't like the speed blade holders at all. I did have to drill some holes, but it wasn't a complicated mount.

Right, you can almost think of it as the inverse of those who ditched E-Pro for Tuuk, as the SB has the same rivet pattern as a Tuuk.