Business Travel Advice, Tips, etc.?

[McDugan 89]

So, out of nowhere, I may end up making a major career change soon. My father-in-law had lunch with an old co-worker who has a sales position open in the company he works for now. To make a long story short, it sounds like this job could easily be handed to me based on the strength of that connection and recommendation.

There are many great things about this - I've been trying to find a new job for a long time (been at my current job for 5 years and looking on and off for most of that time), this new opportunity has a base pay that is 150% of what I currently make, as well as a commission structure on top of that, it's a much more employee-friendly company, and did I mention it's minimally a 150% pay increase?

Now, there are also some potential drawbacks, primarily that it will require pretty substantial travel (8-9 weeks a year), and it's a pretty foreign field to me.

The new field thing I'm sure I can get used to, I'm just a bit freaked out because I've worked in the arts my whole adult life. I currently work for an arts management/booking agent company, and while there is a sales aspect to what we do, it's very different. We are essentially selling services, and most of my responsibilities in this job are not sales-related. I administer all the stuff that happens between the time the contract is made and the services take place (generally things are contracted 6 months-2 years in advance). Since this came about completely unexpectedly, I'm struggling to process the decision of whether or not this drastic a change in direction is the right step for me to take.

The travel is the major sticking point. I still don't know enough about exactly how it works, but it sounds like typically a Sun/Mon-Thurs week at a time. It sounds like scheduling is somewhat flexible, i.e. I'd be able to work around important personal times and family commitments and have some autonomy with regard to how I make my travel schedule. But, with a 2 year old and another very recently on the way, the idea of putting the at-home burden squarely on my wife, who also works (and currently makes a bit more than I do, as well as bringing in awesome benefits since she works for a large university with an associated teaching hospital system) as well as just missing all that time at home, is pretty scary.

Well, if you've gotten this far, thanks for reading this 1/2 journal-entry-1/2 useful post.

I know I've seen some people on this forum post about travel-heavy work, so I'm hoping there's some wisdom to be shared that will benefit me and the collective MSH community. Any thoughts/advice/tips/warnings/schooling are all welcome.

[Chadd 916]

Traveling 8-9 weeks a year, really isn't all that heavy of a travel schedule. Unless you will be traveling for 8-9 straight weeks, that would be a major pain in the ass. There will be some level of hardship imposed on your wife, there's no way around that. You just need to talk about it ahead of time and make sure that both of you understand what will change and that you are both on board with it. There will come a time when you have to travel at an inconvenient time, it's murphy's law. Just expect it and know that it will happen at some point. Your wife will likely appreciate you more when you are around or resent you for not being there when you aren't. There's no way any of us can accurately predict how that will shake out or if the increase in income will justify the changes.

[thejackal 46]

The logistics related with travel can be sorted out pretty easily - Ive worked in a few travel-intensive jobs and it,s never been the hardest part. Just take care of your body (sleep, food exercise habits) and make sure all your tech equipment (phone, laptop, other job related hardware if any) gets to point B with you, and it ll be fine.

Sales on the other hand might be a challenging field to learn. You'll have targets to meet which arent always easy. Ive always been into reading about persuasion and body language from a psychological point of view. That may help you.

[Trooper 8]

The biggest challenge for me when I travel is just making it easy on my wife. We have a six and two year old and my wife works. So it is very stressful for her to get up, get herself ready, my daughter ready for school, my son ready to go to his grandparents, etc. then she is all alone packing lunches, doing baths, and getting them to bed. For me, making sure travel isn't going to cause too much stress at home should be your number one concern. If you can handle that, then worry about the specifics of learning the job and if it is a good fit. Don't forget, sales is pretty black and white, you perform or you don't. Some people like it, some can't do it.

[MThockeydad 469]

If it were me, I'd need more than my wife's blessing--I'd want her complete backing if not her urging me to do it.

I travel for work (construction management) but it's more like 1-2 nights at a time, probably 15-20 times a year. In her mind, I'm "always" gone, in mine, it doesn't seem too bad.

Traveling stinks. You have an expense account and are tempted to eat too good, drink too much and exercise too little. I end up going to bed too late because I'm bored and stay up watching something stupid on TV, where at home, I don't often watch TV and have a million different things to work on, including getting the girls to their practices and helping them with their homework and the bedtime routine.

Sales on the other hand might be a challenging field to learn. You'll have targets to meet which arent always easy. Ive always been into reading about persuasion and body language from a psychological point of view. That may help you.

Don't forget, sales is pretty black and white, you perform or you don't. Some people like it, some can't do it.

I completely agree. I can't do sales.

I have a good buddy who is GREAT at sales, and was a poor fit for 3 interim jobs between two sales careers.

If it were my decision, the impact on my family would be my #1 concern, having to do sales would be a close 2nd, and traveling itself a distant 3rd.

What good is the money if you're rarely home to spend it...or would you be able to save a lot more for retirement (or an earlier retirement)?

You can never replace the days away from your kids.

[Trooper 8]

I travel for work (construction management) but it's more like 1-2 nights at a time, probably 15-20 times a year. In her mind, I'm "always" gone, in mine, it doesn't seem too bad.

You can never replace the days away from your kids.

Both great points, even if the total days aren't a lot, many small trips may be worse than the same amount of time in fewer big chunks. So far I haven't missed too much, but I did miss my daughter's end of year Christmas program last year. It is little things like this that can make a big difference.

Not trying to talk you out of it. I know people who travel a lot and their wives/husbands are fine with it, some hate even a little travel. Just really discuss it with your wife and be honest with yourself.

Good luck!

[MThockeydad 469]

On the plus side, I really only travel in one half of my state. It gives me some opportunities to visit friends I'd not otherwise see, and to catch some recreation opportunities while coming or going.

[McDugan 89]

Thank you all for great input. My wife is (so far) very encouraging about it. She also has some work-related travel, although we've been lucky in that in the past couple of years since we had our first, due to budget constraints, her travel has been reduced to a great degree. She used to be on the road for the majority of a 6-week period in Oct/Nov, plus a few other 2-3 day trips in a year. So she knows the ropes as far as that's concerned. Fortunately for us, she's supposed to be moving into a new position that will not require any travel.

She seems more concerned about the impact this job might have on my ability to do pro singing work (we both were music students, that's how we met, and we both do some performing/teaching in addition to our full-time "day jobs"). In my mind, that's less of an issue. If I make the leap, part of that is going in expecting that I may not be able to continue performing, or at least may need to find other outlets that are more compatible with my new work schedule.

I'm not worried at all about the effects of the travel on myself. I think I'd actually enjoy that part of the job - I really like traveling alone, and like having some solitude, but I do worry about the means to that end. I'm far more concerned with the impact on the family. I think my wife is confident that we simply will make it work, and while I'm sure that's true, I want us both to be happy with the result.

[MThockeydad 469]

If she's traveled, then you're a huge leg up over those of us whose spouses haven't. She understands. It probably doesn't hurt that her dad helped you find this opportunity.

Do your or her parents live nearby? My wife travels 3 or so times a year, 2-3 days at a time. It's helpful to have someone available when your travel schedules coincide and nobody is at home. (happens to us only 1x/year) Both my parents and her mom have been helpful coming over to see the kids off to school and be at home in the evenings for dinner. This would be even more critical for infants/toddlers.

Would you be able to take advantage of any open mic opportunities?

[McDugan 89]

Her parents are about a mile away, and her dad is fully retired. Plus my mother may be moving to our area in the near future, and if she does, she'd probably end up very close to wear my in-laws are, so in that respect we'd be OK. I guess I'm just worried about becoming the stereotypical "distant dad" - our 2 yo is pretty equally attached to both of us, and that's something I really value. But I think it's really up to me to make sure that doesn't happen, and technology certainly allows far more options than ever before to keep everybody in contact.

Performing opportunities, I'd just have to figure out as I go. I do more operatic/classical singing so open-mic type stuff isn't really out there for me. There are certainly plenty unpaid opportunities, and maybe that would be the way to go, although that's an odd adjustment to make, and giving up pro singing would mean giving up some of the more artistically fulfilling stuff I do (one group in particular is a union ensemble, so by their CBA I couldn't be a volunteer member). I've done some singing for free in recent months, and it feels great, but it's different when you're donating your time as a professional vs. making the complete transition to being a skilled amateur. Whatever the outcome, though, I'm sure I'll eventually find a way to still do some singing and be happy with it. There are a number of excellent performing groups in my area that consist of both paid and unpaid musicians, and I could see myself being happy working as a volunteer in one of those groups - that way I'd be able to be singing, but a bit more on my terms. If I need to miss a rehearsal or something, as a volunteer (and especially as a volunteer with pro-level skills), there wouldn't be any repercussions. I'd also probably be able to to sub for the paid singers on occasion.

This would be my first foray into the "business" world, and that's ultimately the most daunting thing about it for me.
I'm so used to working in the arts, and any other opportunities I've had have been with non-profit or more mission-driven organizations. The work environment, the goals of the company, the people I am in contact with, will all be very different.

Having worked with my current company for 5 years, I have a pretty good - but extremely basic - grasp of sales practices (I am very good at learning by observing, especially over time, so I've picked up a lot of what works and even more of what doesn't just by keeping my eyes and ears open). However, I don't have the direct experience that would give me the confidence to say, I know how to do this. If I do it, it will be a learning experience for sure. That said, if a job offer comes to fruition out of this, I don't think I could turn it down and be OK staying where I am (which, although I love the field and I am very good at my job and enjoy my responsibilities here, is a miserable, very poorly run workplace) any longer. But, I have to remind myself that I won't be signing a lifetime contract, and this could be a great way to acquire new skills and experiences that could be very valuable to me should I return to arts management and/or administration at a higher level in the future. If six months or a year from now I decide to admit that sales isn't for me and I'm looking again, I'm pretty sure I'd much prefer that over being in my current job and still looking to get out.

Again, thanks to all of you who have responded for providing feedback. This thread is really helping me collect and make sense of my thoughts, and as I write them down, I feel more comfortable with the whole idea. I think the fact that this isn't something I found, thought about, and applied for is a major factor in my apprehension - it's just such a sudden development! But it's awesome to hear from people who have real experience with work travel - beyond my wife (whose travel was/is of a pretty different nature), I don't really have any friends or family who can offer any insight.

[Trooper 8]

The solitude can be nice, especially with little kids at home. It is nice just to put a game on in the hotel or read and truly relax. At times I have actually forgotten what silence sounds like! :)

[fatwabbit 93]

Make things as simple as possible for travel, after a couple trips you'll see what you need or overpacked. And then slowly cut down to the essentials. Have something that allows you to surf the net or watch movies, not every flight or hotel/motel is going to have that luxury.

Small all medical kit with aspirin, band aids, charcoal pills etc.

If you can, pack stuff into a carry on bag, saves you time from checking in and waiting for bags at carousel.

I travel about 2-3 times A month in Australia to visit the different cities and towns in the territory I cover and maybe make 4-5 international trips overseas. I've got it down to checking in, thru the gate, and into the lounge in less than 15 min as I try to pack minimal stuff and have all documentation needed in my pocket or wallet. Now with some airlines allowing you to use you let smart phone to checkin or show the pass, it's much quicker. What works for others might not work for you, so try to tweak it along the way.

Oh, and take a piss before you get in the plne

[DolomaticDangles 13]

8-9 weeks isn't a ton of travel. As long as your wife approves, it sounds like a good gig, especially the increased pay.

I'd be more concerned about the fact that it is a sales role, and that you don't have a lot of experience. There is a lot to learn. Seeing as it's a 150% pay increase, I'm guessing it's a pretty decent role. I'd just make sure you don't bite off more than you can chew.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

8-9 weeks isn't much, but my biggest bit of business travel advice for those who travel a lot is to make sure you sign up for the frequent flier clubs for every airline, every hotel chain, and every rental car chain. Ideally you'd stick to only one of each of those categories, but it's nice to know you're still getting points when you have to deviate.

Southwest has by far the easiest program to accrue a lot of points and very quick status. Hell, just A-List gives you access to the first class check-in and security lines. And that's EASY to get.

Also make sure you sign up for TSA Pre-Check. Being able to skip the big security lines, and keep your shoes and jacket on and keep your laptop in your bag will help you fly through security.

Invest in a good sleep mask. You'll appreciate that when you get to a hotel where the curtains don't block out all the city lights. The ones Brookstone sells are the best I've ever had because they are soft even the part near your ears so you dont have straps digging into the top of your ears. This is the one I'm talking about: http://www.brookstone.com/NapForm-Eye-Mask Expensive, yes. But worth it.

Buy a dopp kit (shaving bag) and stock it will a full second set of all your usual toiletries, so that you don't have to pack it every time you travel. It's just sitting there waiting for you, ready to go.

Invest in some good headphones for on the plane, specifically noise-cancelling ones. Bose QC15 is "the gold standard" of the business traveler. Expensive, but they're so damn good, it's worth it.

Umm that's all I can think of right now. As somebody who flew almost every week for the last 4 years or so, I have a pretty good routine going. It's only in the last month that I've started a job that is only SoCal. It's going to suck losing all my airline status, but it will be nice to sleep in my own best most nights. '

Good luck.

[Chadd 916]

8-9 weeks isn't much, but my biggest bit of business travel advice for those who travel a lot is to make sure you sign up for the frequent flier clubs for every airline, every hotel chain, and every rental car chain. Ideally you'd stick to only one of each of those categories, but it's nice to know you're still getting points when you have to deviate.

Having status on an airline makes a huge difference in the experience. Especially if you can get about the bottom level. As you move up, the quality of the program and perks gets significantly better.

[McDugan 89]

Had a first interview today, although one of the two people I was scheduled to meet with was out sick. Will have a second, for sure. Definitely feeling much more comfortable with the whole possibility. The company environment and people were as pleasant, genuine, and obviously dedicated as can be. Company clearly retains employees long-term because they like working there.

Turns out they're looking to fill two equivalent sales jobs simultaneously. We talked about my lack of sales experience and he was very upfront - it won't prevent me from being given full consideration, and if I'm the right person for the company, they will train me. If all things are equal and Candidate B has sales experience, they'll go with Candidate B. I felt really good about the personal connection I made with the folks I met, though, and I present and interview well, so right now I feel confident. Thanks again to all for the comments and support.

[McDugan 89]

Had my second interview yesterday. Impressed them by making it there (late) in the middle of the blizzard that hit us around 10:00am. I lukced out; my office closed on account of the weather right about the time I needed to leave for the inteview, so I didn't have to take a long lunch and worry about making up an excuse for that.

I'm one of six final candidates for the two positions. After all the thinking I've done in the past few weeks, it's now their judgment call to make. If they feel good about hiring me, I feel like that's my signal that it'll work out, should I take the job. If they don't hire me, it's not like I'm missing out on my dream job. Nothing to lose.

[McDugan 89]

Another friggin curveball.

So, in my second interview, the woman who would be my supervisor said, we're concerned about you making the switch from being in the arts to this; what is your motivation?

So I explained a little abuot how there's no money in the arts and how the direction that the company I work for is going in doesn't look good.

We also talked about the fact that I do some freelance paid singing (what my arts background/training was in) on the side. There was some concern that it might interfere with my job but after I made it clear that the vast majority of it is on weekends/evenings and can be easily worked around, that seemed to be put to rest. I explained that I get contracts during the summer for the coming fall/winter/spring (academic year, basically) season, and I can decide then what will fit and what won't. At most, I sometimes need to leave the office 15 minutes or so early to get to something on time, but that's about it. No problem, I was told. Just come in early or take a short lunch break or whatever. As long as things are going well, not an issue.

So they called me yesterday evening and offered me a position. Money is substantially more than I make now, with employer-matched retirement, which I don't have now. Also, since I'm not an experienced salesperson, the plan would be for me to receive a pretty significant increase (not specified, but hey) once I'm up and running and making sales. Great.

Except suddenly I'm told, you've got to work 9-5 strictly, no exceptions. They tell me that the guy they fired (one person was fired and one person left, those positions are being filled) had to leave ten minutes early twice a week, and it "really bothered Kenny." (Kenny is the boss, he's about 30, sixth generation of the family that owns the company. He's the CEO and is on-site.)

So I explained again the nature of the stuff I do on the side and how it is scheduled. Finally I say, why don't I send you my schedule for the entire 2013-2014 season, so you can have it in front of you and we can all be making informed decisions - because evidently the several times I explained it weren't working. So, by request, I sent it right away when I got home, so they would have it first thing this morning to look at. It's now 4:45 here and I've not heard from anyone there.

I'm feeling all kinds of pissed off. It's not so much the idea of them shutting down the option to keep my side "career" (such as it is) going as I have been. That would be a difficult decision to make, but it's very concrete - either I'm willing to make that sacrifice or I'm not. The big red flag for me is the fact that I was led to believe one thing, and then told something entirely different a week later. This was something that came up several times and that we discussed in the interview process. Never at any point until the offer was made was it suggested that there would be such a zero-flexibility policy, and if that had been communicated to me earlier I would have thanked them and told them that I probably wouldn't be a very good fit there, very simply. If someone needing to leave ten minutes early was enough of a problem to mention it to me (and in the context and manner it was communicated), then I am just not the right personality for them.

I'm waiting to see what they think when they've read my schedule, but my gut now tells me this isn't what it appeared to be. I also asked if they could send me an employee manual or written documentation of company policies (which I am beginning to think may not exist - another red flag). My concern has become - what if they decide they're OK with the schedule I sent them, but in 3 or 6 months, then suddenly it "bothers Kenny" too much? At what point am I able or unable to have faith in what I'm being told?

/rant

[wrangler 157]

What did they say when you mentioned that you had been told this would not be a problem?

I'm wondering if they ran it by Kenny first, he told them it was OK, then he changed his mind. I'm wondering how Kenny would be to work for, and what else he wants to micromanage.

[notquitedeadyet 13]

I work in sales, & don't travel much, but the people that I know that do seem to be afforded some flexibility in their schedule because of the travel required. It seems to me like almost working the whole time because you can't do what you really want after 5:00pm when you're away.

What about forfeiting a vacation day to offset the time off?

One day of vaca should = about 32) 15min early outs. That might appease the Kenny.

[Chadd 916]

It sounds like a control issue to me.

[notquitedeadyet 13]

It sounds like a control issue to me.

I think Chadd's on to something here.

Have you ever interviewed with this guy?

How hard would it be to get back to your current position or similar if things didn't work out?

[McDugan 89]

Well, I met Kenny at my first interview, which he was a part of briefly. Asked a couple questions, then left to continue a task he was working on. Second interview, said hello but he wasn't really a part of it. Seemed like a pretty laid-back guy, the work environment was overall pretty casual and congenial as far as I could tell. The people there seem close and have been together a long time. All accounts from the two people who were interviewing me (there was my putative supervisor, Nicole, and one other person, Jim, who was my father-in-law's contact through whom the whole thing came about) were that Ken is a great guy, the company really takes great care of employees, there are second and third generation employees in the factory, the whole nine yards.

Now, Jim was the person who scheduled my initial interview, and who decided I should remain in considertation for a second interview. Nicole was supposed to be at my first interview but was unexpectedly sick. Before the second interview, Jim called my father-in-law to tell him I was one of six final candidates and that the decisions were now up to Ken and Nicole.

Nicole was the one who both brought up their reservations to me in my second interview, and who told me after I explained things to her that she thought it would work fine as long as it wasn't getting in the way of the required travel.

Jim, in spite of what he had told my father-in-law (which could easily have been just his way of protecting their relationship in case I would not be given an offer), was the one who called me Tuesday to offer the job and relay the "edict" regarding work time.

I can't know exactly what happened. Either everybody sat down and discussed it and they decided together (or Ken, as is his right, made an executive decision) that what I had told Nicole was no acceptable after all (although there was no reference to my conversation with her) or they never communicated with each other and Jim was delivering Ken's message and both were unaware of the content and result of my conversation with her at my second interview. Neither of these scenarios reflects well on the company, really.

Having still not heard anything back from them, no "Thanks for sending this," no employee policy, no "We don't have our policies in writing," just nothing, I'm done with it. It seemed like a golden ticket, and the extra money sure would have been great, but it's not worth going from one bad situation to another, and at this point I don't have a good feeling about it anymore. Even if they come back and say, OK we can work with this, they're going to think they're doing me a big favor, I'm going to go into it thinking they're full of shit, and I'd rather deal with someone whose BS I know inside out and at least stay in my field of interest than learn to navigate an entirely new shit-river in an unappealing field just for more money. I'm working on my "thanks but no thanks" email now.

Thanks for playing along at home.

[McDugan 89]

So I sent this:

Dear Jim, Nicole, and Ken,

Thank you again for all of your consideration and for offering me the sales associate position.

Having not heard any further from you regarding the information I sent (and the information I requested) Tuesday night, and having given the matter more thought myself, I must decline your offer of employment with the utmost respect and appreciation.

I came away from my conversation with Nicole on Jan. 21 with a very different impression of how the occasional need to leave the office early (while making up time by coming in early or taking a reduced lunch break) would be handled than that which was expressed in my more recent conversation with Jim. To be frank, had that been expressed to me in that way during the interview process, I would not have wasted anyone’s time by continuing as a candidate.

It is clear to me that while I do believe it would be possible to balance the responsibilities of the sales job and my modest performance schedule, I would be unable to do so in such a manner that would meet the needs of the XXXXXXX Company and my own personal needs satisfactorily.

All the best to you,

McDugan

And she responded:

McDugan,

Jim and I have yet to go over what you sent us on Tuesday night. I apologize for it taking longer then expected but, we both had a very busy Wednesday. We planned on touching base with you today and letting you know that we will be discussing it on Tuesday when we are both together. We figured that you cannot start until March so we had time. Do you still want us to do this? Or do you still want to decline?

Our initial concern was coming from a previous employee that had given us some trouble with extracurricular activities. That is the only reason that we requested a schedule to see how often it would effect your traveling.

~Nicole

What I thought: Soooo... you asked me to get this info to you ASAP so you could have it first thing in the morning, but then you didn't look at it at all because you had a busy day? I had a busy day too, but I managed to deliver the information when I was asked to. At the very least, a "Thanks for sending" would have been appropriate. And you didn't understand, in spite of my being very clear about it, that my ability to start at the beginning of March was predicated on the fact that you told me you'd be making the decision this week and that I'd be able to give ample notice to my current employer? Delaying a response would only delay my potential start date. Disgust.

What I wrote: Thank you Nicole,

I understand being busy and I wish I could feel differently, but I still must decline. Given that I thought we really had addressed the concerns you refer to, and that they clearly still exist, I really don't see a way for both parties to truly feel 100% comfortable and confident moving forward, and that's no way to start things off. Again, thank you, and best of luck in filling the position.

And she responded:

That's a shame because I believe that we were going to offer you the job. Best of luck in the future!

~Nicole

What I thought: Ah, yeah, OK. You did offer me the job. See how I thanked you for the offer of the job and then declined it? But yeah, we're done here.

I didn't write back again.

Well, it's definitely over now. Another mirage in the desert. Luckily, in spite of being driven nuts on a regular basis by my current work situation, I am not one of the many unemployed, and I have the privilege of being able to laugh at the situation and choose to turn the job down.

Thanks again to all who have followed along, offered ideas and support, and hopefully enjoyed the unexpected conclusion.

[wrangler 157]

She didn't address your concern on office hours. She also sounded like she still wanted to negotiate even though they had told you it was a deal-breaker. And in the last message she didn't appear to know what she was saying. Now I wonder if she was the problem, or just one of the problems. Either way, it does not speak well for the company.