Advice for soft ice?

[xcntracer 2]

Help, I have zero knowledge about skate sharpening. So, the rink I play on has an unstable ice condition. They are generally bad, but more often it's awful with puddles from time to time. It feels like stepping on pillows, I mean I've played on soft ice a few times in my life but this one is the worst.

Now I know for a fact that we use different sharpness number, the sharpener here told me he did 7.5 for my skates while you guys probably use something like 5/11(?). But please advise anyway what is the best or most versatile sharpness for soft/bad ice? I'm sure I can get the number difference sorted out.

Note: sometimes I go 8 because I like my blades sharp, guys my size usually went with 6.5 to 7

[crispy92 14]

I've never seen hollow labeled as whole numbers such as 7.5 and 8. Unless I'm missing something, every skate I've ever sharpened used hollows such as 1/2 inch or 5/8 of an inch.

So I don't know what your currently using but when it comes to soft ice generally speaking you will want to go up in hollow size. So if your using a 1/2 inch hollow you'll want to go up to 5/8, 3/4 or whatever you feel comfortable with. Idk how your sharpener measures his hollows but basically you want to go up to something more dull

[Chadd 916]

I prefer a more shallow hollow when I skate on soft ice. I don't want to sink in as much. As for the "7.5", I have no idea what that is, never heard it before.

[Nosferatu 8]

Just a thought but could the 7.5 be metric ie 7.5mm which would be 1/4"3/8" ish ?

[xcntracer 2]

Just a thought but could the 7.5 be metric ie 7.5mm which would be 1/4"3/8" ish ?

Could be, yes. I've checked some charts online like this one and my hollow is kind of between 3/8" and 1/2". I tried taking pics but camera was shitty, gonna borrow my bro's when he gets back. Regarding dullness, how dull should I go? Wouldn't it make me lose grip on tight turns and lateral movements?

Oh and there's an American guy here who plays on my team: Cosmic. He's having the same problem, we have the same hollow but he's 6'2" 200lbs and I'm 5"6" 140 lbs. Let me bring him here, he can probably explain better.

[Cosmic 178]

So when I went to US and got my skates sharpened, their system was explained to me (at Jake's in El Segundo). The guy said 8/16 inch is the default, so they started me on that. I played on hard ice (at the rink in El Segundo), and did pretty well, but I felt like I was slipping at times on crossovers, so I tried a sharper cut. So, they took me down to 7/16 inch (for free, thanks Jake's). They explained that as the first # gets smaller, the sharpening gets sharper, as the first # represents the distance away from the edge. So, 16/16=1=no hollow whatsoever. 1/16 would be as far from the edge as one could get, and super sharp.

So, horrible idea on my part to get my skates sharpened further, as my next skate was out here, where our ice is soft. For some reason, I thought we had hard ice (I don't know why), so I thought 7/16 would be fine. I was sinking into the ice and as slow as slow could be, so now I need to get my skates dulled. And yes, I have no idea what the #s of the skate sharpeners out here represent. I suppose we could just ask lol.

However, asking questions to people out here is usually a bad idea, because the culture is that people will never let on if they do not know the answer to a question. They are most likely to just make something up on the spot, and act confident as if they speak truth. Or, they give an opinion, like "I think that this means (blah blah blah)," except they have a way of leaving out the "I think," thus making their theories sound like absolute truth. The best is asking for directions. Everywhere I have ever needed to go is up the street aways, and then either to the left or right (depending on the guy pretending to know the directions' mood, I suppose).

[xcntracer 2]

^There he is. Actually, I tried asking before, the sharpening guy didn't even know either. Which is not surprising lol

[Cosmic 178]

^There he is. Actually, I tried asking before, the sharpening guy didn't even know either. Which is not surprising lol

I am shocked that he would admit that he did not know; or did you have to figure out that he just had no idea of what he was trying to talk about?

[xcntracer 2]

I asked whether he uses the metric system or not. His answer was "yea maybe, this is all the numbers i know". I will try to talk to his supervisor so i can maybe check the machine up close

[SolidR 7]

Why do u guys in US have such small number ? like 1/2" I think if im doing this right it is roughly 1/2*2,54cm = (12,7mm). Im skating in 20mm (13/16"). Lower than that im digging too deep and have no speed + my thights are killing me :D. Are our scandinavian ice softer then in US therefore the big gap in ROH?

Just trying do find the best for me but have no reference beacuse you guys use a different numbers.

[wrangler 157]

Your arithmetic is correct.

[SolidR 7]

Sweet, but is it beacuse you guys have harder ice you need some digging?

[crispy92 14]

Sweet, but is it beacuse you guys have harder ice you need some digging?

Not necessarily. It's possible but I know around my area at least, nobody knows the difference. Generally people will toss their skates to the skate shop, tell them they want them sharpened and boom their done, no talk of hollows and the guy behind the counter just goes with a 1/2 so he doesn't have to redress it. When I use to sharpen skates if I mentioned hollow people would look at me sideways.

My other theory is people don't like change and most people usually start on a 1/2 inch, get used to it and are afraid to change . I personally have gone up to a 1 inch hollow but only because I sharpened them myself. I have found my sweet spot to be about 3/4 in.

[Chadd 916]

I hate it when people say that a more shallow hollow is "duller". It is not correct at all. The edges have less bite due to the angle but the edges themselves are just as sharp, and will actually stay sharp longer than a deeper hollow.

[JSK81 400]

I've noticed this too, I think here in Finland the "standard" ROH is around 20-22mm. I once asked for 17mm and the guy told me it's crazy deep.

Almost 4 years ago, after I had a long break from skating and when I started playing hockey I needed pretty deep hollow to trust my edges. After I got used to skating again and my technique got better I've been using shallower hollows much more efficiently. I've also been able to skate a lot longer between sharpenings.

I use 90/75 FBV nowadays, skating 2-3 times a week and I usually get my skates sharpened every 1-2 months.

I've had the priviledge to attend WF and SJ, and to be honest haven't noticed any differences in ice between Finland and North America.

Why do u guys in US have such small number ? like 1/2" I think if im doing this right it is roughly 1/2*2,54cm = (12,7mm). Im skating in 20mm (13/16"). Lower than that im digging too deep and have no speed + my thights are killing me :D. Are our scandinavian ice softer then in US therefore the big gap in ROH?

Just trying do find the best for me but have no reference beacuse you guys use a different numbers.

[xcntracer 2]

I hate it when people say that a more shallow hollow is "duller". It is not correct at all. The edges have less bite due to the angle but the edges themselves are just as sharp, and will actually stay sharp longer than a deeper hollow.

Lol sorry didnt know that. In my deflense, our language's vocabulary regarding skates are kinda limited.

So, i guess i'm gonna try less hollow next week.

[moreoutdoor 6]

Why do u guys in US have such small number ? like 1/2" I think if im doing this right it is roughly 1/2*2,54cm = (12,7mm). Im skating in 20mm (13/16"). Lower than that im digging too deep and have no speed + my thights are killing me :D. Are our scandinavian ice softer then in US therefore the big gap in ROH?

Just trying do find the best for me but have no reference beacuse you guys use a different numbers.

not just US

here is a skate chart for the 09-10 Penguins - has plenty of Euros on it...

D tend towards flatter, forwards tend towards more hollow - but never a rule, and if you have a flatter profile, it stands to reason that shallower hollow will grip as well as a deeper hollow on a tighter profile. There's so much personal in this that there is no formula for anyone.

sorry for the bad image. I have a better one, but haven't figured out attachments here.. help is not much help

[Chadd 916]

sorry for the bad image. I have a better one, but haven't figured out attachments here.. help is not much help

we don't allow attachments, we had issues with people uploading infected files and don't wish to deal with it again.

[deathb4dismount 11]

Ok this thread just became interesting to me. I started skating in a Friday night C League and the ice is very soft. I have noticed that the soft ice really neutralizes my speed on the first steps. My speed is the best part of my game, I could be competitive in a B league with my skating ability but my stick skills get exposed quickly. I also skate Sundays on harder ice and my sharpening is 1/2. Any advice on skating technique on softer ice for a quicker first step

?

[Chadd 916]

Ok this thread just became interesting to me. I started skating in a Friday night C League and the ice is very soft. I have noticed that the soft ice really neutralizes my speed on the first steps. My speed is the best part of my game, I could be competitive in a B league with my skating ability but my stick skills get exposed quickly. I also skate Sundays on harder ice and my sharpening is 1/2. Any advice on skating technique on softer ice for a quicker first step

?

If you already skate well, the only thing you should change is the hollow.

[strosedefence34 175]

Is the arch in the hollow supposed to be smooth? Every time I run my fingers down my edges it feels jagged in spots.

[deathb4dismount 11]

If you already skate well, the only thing you should change is the hollow.

Why do I ask questions I already know the answer to?

[MaximRecoil 7]

I hate it when people say that a more shallow hollow is "duller". It is not correct at all. The edges have less bite due to the angle but the edges themselves are just as sharp, and will actually stay sharp longer than a more shallow hollow.

That's backwards. A "less shallow hollow" (AKA: deeper hollow) is perceived as being sharper, not duller, and a "more shallow hollow" will tend to stay sharp longer than a "less shallow hollow".

Also, a deeper hollow is in fact sharper, because a sharper angle forms the edges, and sharpness of the angle of an edge is what defines "sharp" in the first place (i.e., a thinner edge is sharper, and sharper angles form thinner edges).

In the sense of how clean/tight the actual transition point of the angle is, it will be the same regardless of the ROH, assuming it is done properly, so in that sense all ROHs are equally sharp. Even 90 degree edges (no hollow at all) or reverse hollow edges would be equally sharp in that sense, despite having little-to-no practical sharpness for skating.

[Chadd 916]

That's backwards. A "less shallow hollow" (AKA: deeper hollow) is perceived as being sharper, not duller, and a "more shallow hollow" will tend to stay sharp longer than a "less shallow hollow".

Yeah, that was a typo on my part, thanks for catching it. I went back to revise my post and make it more clear and ended up making it worse.

The typo has now been corrected so that it doesn't result in confusion to anyone reading it for the first time.