"On" the ice or "In" the ice

[Hockeydog 8]

So this might be hard to explain, and hard to answer but here goes.

When I was learning to skate I was told the best way to get speed was to push hard straight down into the ice, really dig into the ice. But when I watch the better, faster skaters in my league, they seem to be floating on top more.Thier strides look good, with good foot speed and effortless. The reason I bring this up is because I am trying to improve my foot speed on the ice and am wondering if I am wasting too much energy trying to force my blades into the ice. I am not a total slug, but not very fast. I can get by with instincts and experience so I am not totally useless on the ice but obviously not where I want to be. Most noticeable with straight forward skating. I have some questions.

Is grip on the ice more from correctly matching my weight with the ice hardness? Should I be letting the hollow do the gripping? I am 5'10" 185 and use a FBV that is equivilent to just over a 3/4" hollow, and I don't sharpen my skates that often.But I don't feel them slipping in crossovers, etc. I skate in a Easton EQ50 with factory radius, which may be stiffer than my weight and skill level would indicate I use, and I lace them fairly tight to hold heels down.

My legs generally feel heavy when skating, or tight, not relaxed. I play competitive tennis as well and am pretty quick around the court. My best asset is return of serve as I can really explode to wide serves and return to them. Something is not transitioning to the ice. Is there something specific I should be doing off ice to help?

I have never been really happy with any skates I have had. Can't quite explain it but just never can get a real confident connection between my feet and the ice. Could that be part of it?

I just want a smooth fluid stride with the foot speed that I see the good to better skaters in my C league have, and be able to stay in the play. Based on other sports I play or have played, I think it's in me somewhere. Thanks for any contructive comments or ideas that can help me.

[wrangler 157]

What FBV do you use? Why have you not been happy with skates? It starts with the boot fit -- how's that?

The easy answer on technique is to try different ones and compare the feel and results.

[romdj 26]

Since you play tennis, your legs should definitely be explosive enough...

Have you tried rebaking them and to have your pitch increased?

In terms of the stride being on or in I'd say neither, your stride needs to be as sideways/lateral as possible.

Knee bend is also very very important, you may want to try to lace without top eyelet and see if there's an improvement.

[Hockeydog 8]

Thanks for the responses! FBV is either a 80/100 or 85/75. My sharpener says it is slightly shallower than a 3/4' would be in a regular cut. As for my skates, I might try not doing up the last eyelet. I tie them pretty tight with elite waxed laces because one of my heels slips just a bit otherwise. Also when my skates are on there is a slight pronation, but nothing worse than other players I see that skate better. But I don't feel like the skate blade is toatlly centered under my foot. I do feel my edges well. I'll look at my skating technique as well, maybe try and get somone to shoot a quick vid on my iPhone. I have a feeling I am not recovering back to the middle as well as I should be. Maybe I need a little deeper cut on the skates too. Thanks for the answers!!

[chk hrd 164]

"In terms of the stride being on or in I'd say neither, your stride needs to be as sideways/lateral as possible."

This would just make you push from one side tot the other like a goalie going post to post. Your stride is almost 45 degrees back. I have always preffered long smooth strides over short choppy strides. They seem more energy efficient. Not everyone is blessed with speed. Besides technique there can be physical limitation with muscle. You can practice to get faster but everyone has a top speed. Darren Helm is a great example, not one of the biggest strongest players but there are few faster.

[IniNew 51]

"In terms of the stride being on or in I'd say neither, your stride needs to be as sideways/lateral as possible."

This would just make you push from one side tot the other like a goalie going post to post. Your stride is almost 45 degrees back. I have always preffered long smooth strides over short choppy strides. They seem more energy efficient. Not everyone is blessed with speed. Besides technique there can be physical limitation with muscle. You can practice to get faster but everyone has a top speed. Darren Helm is a great example, not one of the biggest strongest players but there are few faster.

The limitations and things that apply to skaters in the NHL do not apply to those of us playing beer league. Yes, some people are built to be faster (muscle fibers, short/long muscles, etc etc) but for the average skater, there will always been ways to improve. With any of, strength training, plyometrics, weight loss, or nutritional preparedness.

[chk hrd 164]

I disagree, the same limitations apply just not on the same level. Beer league players have more room to improve but you can only do so much with what you have. You can train, strengthen, eat right and all but if your technigue is not good or skating doesn't come naturally then it's wasted. When my son played competative hockey he trained the same as all of the other players. Physically he was one of the smaller players on the team but he was the fastest skater (the coach would race them and time them) and one of the most agile on the team. Same traing, he is just gifted with speed and a natural ability to skate.

[Chadd 916]

There is more than one way to be fast. Some guys have quick feet and take a lot of strides, others have powerful strides and gather their speed a little more slowly. If you are like me and you don't have quick feet, you have to do what you can to maximize your power and efficiency.

[romdj 26]

"In terms of the stride being on or in I'd say neither, your stride needs to be as sideways/lateral as possible."

This would just make you push from one side tot the other like a goalie going post to post. Your stride is almost 45 degrees back. I have always preffered long smooth strides over short choppy strides. They seem more energy efficient. Not everyone is blessed with speed. Besides technique there can be physical limitation with muscle. You can practice to get faster but everyone has a top speed. Darren Helm is a great example, not one of the biggest strongest players but there are few faster.

try and you will see, if you're pushing at a 45 degree angle, your stride will be less efficient and shorter than if you're pushing as close to sideways as possible.

[ktang 34]

I disagree, the same limitations apply just not on the same level. Beer league players have more room to improve but you can only do so much with what you have. You can train, strengthen, eat right and all but if your technigue is not good or skating doesn't come naturally then it's wasted. When my son played competative hockey he trained the same as all of the other players. Physically he was one of the smaller players on the team but he was the fastest skater (the coach would race them and time them) and one of the most agile on the team. Same traing, he is just gifted with speed and a natural ability to skate.

try and you will see, if you're pushing at a 45 degree angle, your stride will be less efficient and shorter than if you're pushing as close to sideways as possible.

When I'm going at higher speeds I transition to a side-to-side push. When I'm accelerating from a standstill it's 2-4 strides straight back. In between it's about 45 degrees.

Mike Bracko has a good concept for the side-to-side push at higher speeds.

[chk hrd 164]

If you have ever been on a slide board then you use a side to side push and all you do is....go from on side to the other, not forward off the board. This is one reason I don' care much for slide boards. They help develop muscle but not technique. If you have ever used the power skater machine it is set up so your strides are roughly 45 degrees. From a stand still you are pushing more backwards probably closer to 80 degrees. If you pushed straight back you would be running with your blades at a wierd angle to get bite.

[MThockeydad 469]

When my son played competative hockey he trained the same as all of the other players. Physically he was one of the smaller players on the team but he was the fastest skater (the coach would race them and time them) and one of the most agile on the team. Same traing, he is just gifted with speed and a natural ability to skate.

Or he might have been more coachable and had a better ability to understand the nuances the coaches were trying to explain...it might not have been just "natural". ;)

[Hockeydog 8]

What is everyone's opinion on a skating treadmill? I have heard good and bad. It would seem like a good way to get in tons of reps which would be good if good form is used. I skated the other night and noticed when starting a push, my blade is pretty upright, not angled into the ice. Once my leg starts to extend, my foot rolls to angle into the ice. I was taught that the recovering foot lands on the ice on the flat, I might be staying on the flat too long. Lot's of work to do.

[smcgreg 81]

What is everyone's opinion on a skating treadmill? I have heard good and bad. It would seem like a good way to get in tons of reps which would be good if good form is used. I skated the other night and noticed when starting a push, my blade is pretty upright, not angled into the ice. Once my leg starts to extend, my foot rolls to angle into the ice. I was taught that the recovering foot lands on the ice on the flat, I might be staying on the flat too long. Lot's of work to do.

Actually, the recovery foot should land on what would be the outside edge as you push off. As your foot moves from inside to outside, you move from the one edge, across the flat, to the inside edge that you push off from.

Regarding the treadmill.... my son does it. I'm still not convinced. I think in most cases you probably don't get a "ton" of reps. The reason being is that most use a short interval, high intensity (grade + speed) approach with longish rests. The rationale here would be that the grade not only makes it hard, but teaches you to bring your hips up. The speed will enable you to progressively increase speed in a quantifiable manner that you can't on the ice. Conincidentally..... this allows them to schedule multiple skaters at a time and maximize return on investment. Go figure.

We've only done a couple sessions (when I say we, he skates, I pay) and I've been a bit annoyed that the progression is clearly designed to allow for short sets and long rests (to allow for several skaters in one session). To me, it would be better (for the skater), to use slightly slower speeds that can be maintained for a longer period of time, but are still fast enough to improve economy. An argument can be made for both approaches, but for the person that owns the treadmill and has to pay it off, the only argument that makes sense is the shorter sets and faster speeds.

Why I still do it and I think it "works" for him is that he likes the progression and wants to finish the levels that get his name on the board. This works because he's skating fast once a week as opposed to playing video games or watching TV. Is it better than going to an open ice and zooming around? I dunno. I personally think my money would be better spent with a skating coach who will have him work on his edges. Right now, he enjoys the TM more than that, so, I'm trying to keep it interesting while getting him more "ice" skating of some sort. When he gets a bit older, some of the skating coaches are attractive young women, so, I figure he'll be more interested in that then. Everything is timing.

[chk hrd 164]

I'm not a big fan of treadmills. I think the money is better spent on ice doing actual skating on an ice surface.

[Hockeydog 8]

I'm not a big fan of treadmills. I think the money is better spent on ice doing actual skating on an ice surface.

I think I am going to go that way. I ahve never been on a treadmill, but it would seem the glide phase might be different than on real ice. I am going to make an effort to get to more stick time sessions, maybe get a private lesson to eyeball my technique as well. Also I discovered something that I had overlooked. I was using some Easton skates that fit okay but I had a bit of heel lift. Because of that I was tying laces ( waxed elite ) pretty tight all the way up. I went to a pair of One70's that were smaller in size but lock my heels in perfect. With the One70's I was falling forward alot so I quuit using them. I figured out that I was falling forward not beacuse they had a shorter holder, but because I was tying laces really tight - like the Eastons - all the way to the top. I don't need to do that on the One70's since the heel lock is great for me. When I tied the top eyelet not so tight, I could flex forward in the boot just a bit, and no more falling on my face, and more mobility too. So the skate part is solved. Thanks for the input and helping me think thru this. My teammates will thank you too !