Putting larger holders on skates (?)

[asgoodasdead 74]

21 hours ago, caseyjones said:

I need to switch my 254 holder on my graf’s to a 263.  Bought a pair a half size smaller and the smaller holder completely through me off balance.  

I’m a rare case where I’m actually replacing a cobra holder with a cobra holder. My question is can a larger cobra holder be mounted with rivets?  Tuuks and other holders are made for rivets but will mounting the cobra with rivets work?

itll work but you'll need to add a few extra or the rivets will pull out after a while since the cobras are only drilled out for 4 front 4 back because the graf screw system is much stronger and more durable than rivets

[Kgbeast 195]

23 hours ago, caseyjones said:

I need to switch my 254 holder on my graf’s to a 263.  Bought a pair a half size smaller and the smaller holder completely through me off balance.  

I’m a rare case where I’m actually replacing a cobra holder with a cobra holder. My question is can a larger cobra holder be mounted with rivets?  Tuuks and other holders are made for rivets but will mounting the cobra with rivets work?

Yes it will. On PeakSpeed skates, cobra holders are mounted with rivets from factory.

[Kgbeast 195]

2 hours ago, asgoodasdead said:

itll work but you'll need to add a few extra or the rivets will pull out after a while since the cobras are only drilled out for 4 front 4 back because the graf screw system is much stronger and more durable than rivets

Middle holes on the front are there, just not used with screws... At least on my early 2000 704s

[Larry54 243]

When I changed skates, I went from very worn LS2 263 blades to Step (default profile) 254 also in LS2 holder. There was a small adjustment period but I got used to them. The fact that the Step runner is slightly longer than an LS2 runner and is a bit flatter at the heel may have helped me avoid balance problems with the smaller holder. I don't know how the original Graf runner compares to the Step runner for Graf holder, but just changing to a Step runner might be an option if you don't already have Step runners in your Graf 254 holders.

[caseyjones 26]

Thanks for all the replies. I have step runners that I’m putting in my 263 holder. I haven’t used them yet though so idk how they would compare. 

[fbvnyc 12]

Much easier going from smaller to larger because of stability.  I went down from a 280 to a 272 and feel like I'm missing a portion of my blade that is used for toe flick.

[Theloknesmonster 2]

Here is my experience with this.  This will be fairly long and detailed.

Due to an irrational obsession with weight, I crammed my foot into a skate that was too small.  While the boot wasn't terribly uncomfortable, it was easily 1/2 size too small, and maybe even close to a size.

These skates were the first incarnation of the Jetspeed which were always bigger than the size by a half, and maybe even a little more.  If you wore a 7 in today's skates, Bauer or CCM, you could buy a 6.5 with no fit issue.  I don't know if the other CCM skates had this characteristic, but the Jetspeed from 2015 did.

i bought these skates October 2017.  My LHS had them in the back.  Top of the line Jetspeed, 300 bucks.  It was a junior size 5.5.  I wear a size 9 dress shoe.  I bought them, and the boot fit didn't bother me, especially once I got on the ice...but, the second I got on the ice with them, everything else felt completely squirrelly.  I felt unbalanced, I felt like I wasn't going anywhere, I felt weird on pivots, couldn't Mohawk.  

I took them in and my guy said the left blade was bent.  He put in new hyperglide, but that was still bending.  He figured out the holder was mounted poorly, so he undid a couple rivets, pushed the holder in to place and locked it down.  He didn't drill new holes, he just made that adjustment.  He then put the blade in the straightener and straighten it out pretty well.  No improvement in balance or stability.

Then it was suggested that I go from the stock 10 foot neutral to a 11 foot +1.  It seemed a little better, but wasn't nearly what I wanted.  I still felt awkward and unstable.  I got CCM to give me a second set of holders and hyperglide through warranty.  I didn't put the holders on, but had the steel profiled to 13 foot +1.  It wasn't an improvement.  I lost some glide, it felt grabby, and it didn't improve my balance problem in the least.

Then I tried something else.  I wore my old skates.  Jetspeeds, same vintage, but bigger size.  The boot was longer and roomier, the holder was bigger, the runner was 263 instead of 255.  It made all the difference.  These skates were shot, but I got the message.  

I went to LHS with my year old size 5.5 Jetspeeds, and traded them in for better fitting skates with the 263.  They are the newest version of the Jetspeed Xtra Pro Plus SMU.  With the bigger boot, longer holder/runner, my balance issue disappeared.  The stock 10 foot radius and neutral pitch was better than all the profiling work I had done to those junior skates I tried to use.  

Each skate is 100 grams heavier.  I don't feel it, because everything else is better.  Everything.  I am balanced, fast/quick footed, and much more efficient.  Sure all things being equal, I would gravitate towards a lighter skate, but not at the expense of everything else, which is what happened with me.  Weight should never be a priority.  I learned a great deal here.  I learned my lesson.

I will always experiment and try to make improvements in my equipment, but I wanted to share this with people who might be experiencing a similar lever of frustration.  Please let me know if you have questions.  Sorry about the book length post, but hopefully it will help someone out.

 

Edited October 23, 2018 by Theloknesmonster
Horrid spelling

[puckpilot 312]

1 hour ago, Theloknesmonster said:

It was a junior size 5.5.  I wear a size 9 dress shoe. 

I wear 7.5-8 shoes and size 4.5 skates. When I got my current skates, I came down from a size 5. Took me a little while to notice that I was more unstable and my foot was sliding out from under me with my underpush in my cross overs. Blamed it on user error. So spent 6 months working to correct the issue with little improvement. 

Then last April, I tried changing my profile to a 12' +1, and it made the world of difference. I'm in a 13' +1 profile now, and after 6 months, barely notice any loss of agility. Only notice the positives now. 

[caseyjones 26]

I’m in a similar situation.  Skating is Graf 707’s.  Looking to make the switch to newer technology skates but can never make the jump.  I put custom plus on my Grafs.  So I can fit into a 7 or sometimes a 6.5 on older model skates, always with a 263 holder and 9’ profile.  That’s my comfort zone.  
 

I’m easily a 6.5 in today’s skates, but the problem is they all come with a 254 holder.  I only skated on a 254 once in my life and it was awful.  And that was on a cobra holder which have a longer stock profile than my custom plus.  Longer profile didn’t seem to help or offset anything.  
 

so I’m stuck in the position of having to buy new skates, then buy a separate set of holders and steel, rip apart the brand new skates and re-drill for new holders.  Idk what to do.  Currently looking at ccm ft6 in size 6.5

[Buzz_LightBeer 969]

If you’re willing to spend for FT6, CCM custom would allow you to put 263 holders on 6.5 skates, assuming you’re ok with XS holders and steel?

Edited November 5, 2023 by Buzz_LightBeer

[VegasHockey 1280]

20 hours ago, caseyjones said:

I’m in a similar situation.  Skating is Graf 707’s.  Looking to make the switch to newer technology skates but can never make the jump.  I put custom plus on my Grafs.  So I can fit into a 7 or sometimes a 6.5 on older model skates, always with a 263 holder and 9’ profile.  That’s my comfort zone.  
 

I’m easily a 6.5 in today’s skates, but the problem is they all come with a 254 holder.  I only skated on a 254 once in my life and it was awful.  And that was on a cobra holder which have a longer stock profile than my custom plus.  Longer profile didn’t seem to help or offset anything.  
 

so I’m stuck in the position of having to buy new skates, then buy a separate set of holders and steel, rip apart the brand new skates and re-drill for new holders.  Idk what to do.  Currently looking at ccm ft6 in size 6.5

I am a size 7 Tapered with a 271 holder. The newer CCM skates are made a little bigger than previous models, which makes putting an oversized holder on much easier. However, at the price you are paying for a FT6 Pro at retail, spend the extra money and go custom with oversized as mentioned by others. It will cost about the same as buying holders/steel, removing the 254, and installing the 263. However, you get all the benefits of going custom too. 

[caseyjones 26]

Appreciate the suggestions, I should have clarified though I’m looking at the ft690s which are $500.  I just hate the idea of buying new skates just to dismantle them and I wouldn’t trust purehockey to do the mount so I’d likely be shipping them out to get it done.  Do the one piece boots hold up well with holder swaps?  I’ve done many myself on older boots with screws and t-nuts but would not attempt that on the newer skates.  I guess at the end of the day I don’t have much of a choice here.  It’s crazy with all the “options” nowadays, that there’s no retail option to make this type of change 

[VegasHockey 1280]

3 hours ago, caseyjones said:

Appreciate the suggestions, I should have clarified though I’m looking at the ft690s which are $500.  I just hate the idea of buying new skates just to dismantle them and I wouldn’t trust purehockey to do the mount so I’d likely be shipping them out to get it done.  Do the one piece boots hold up well with holder swaps?  I’ve done many myself on older boots with screws and t-nuts but would not attempt that on the newer skates. I guess at the end of the day I don’t have much of a choice here.  It’s crazy with all the “options” nowadays, that there’s no retail option to make this type of change 

Simple process, but I would have a professional shop do it. Not a Pure Hockey or Hockey Monkey. 

[caseyjones 26]

Just to update for anyone who cares lol, I would up going with a size 6.5 and the smaller holder.  I figured I’d test it out before swapping holders.  To my surprise, I really didn’t notice much of a difference at all.  My balance felt fine. I’m going to stick the the 255 holders.  
 

I am wondering about the “memory foam” in the ccm’s though.  Will this eventually break in to give me a better ankle wrap and heel lock?  I did have the skates baked and still have tightness in the forefoot, but I’m not sure how I feel about the big pillow like padding around the ankles.  I don’t get the “locked in” feel that everyone talks about with the new skates.  My foot felt much more locked in in my 707’s

[flip12 714]

2 hours ago, caseyjones said:

Just to update for anyone who cares lol, I would up going with a size 6.5 and the smaller holder.  I figured I’d test it out before swapping holders.  To my surprise, I really didn’t notice much of a difference at all.  My balance felt fine. I’m going to stick the the 255 holders.  
 

I am wondering about the “memory foam” in the ccm’s though.  Will this eventually break in to give me a better ankle wrap and heel lock?  I did have the skates baked and still have tightness in the forefoot, but I’m not sure how I feel about the big pillow like padding around the ankles.  I don’t get the “locked in” feel that everyone talks about with the new skates.  My foot felt much more locked in in my 707’s

707s allow you to lock in the talus, crucial to heel lock, while the top 3 eyelets can be as tight or as loose as you please. The problem for most skaters is they panic as soon as there’s the slightest bit of give in that hinge area, so most newer boots lock it down with extra depth and stiffness. JetSpeeds tended to be on the softer side in that regard (I’m not super familiar with more recent iterations of the JS Fam) but still nowhere near a 707.