Sparx Skate Sharpener - At home sharpener

[Ten2Four 4]

Got it. How do you like the 3/8 Fire? Now that I can sharpen whenever I want, I was thinking of trying the FIRE but wasn't sure if I should go 1/2 or 3/8.

[rlshky 0]

Had just decided in my head to finally buy the X01, and then I come across this thread, and am on the fence on what to choose.  Decisions, decisions...

[Kgbeast 195]

Pretty sweet. Unfortunately for me, I can see that I will be trying different styles and sizes like a fool. Each wheel is good for 40 sharpenings, Which knowing how they qualify this, would be probably 40 2-path refresshers on a softest blade in 6Y length. This makes probably 10 sharpenings of something harder in size 10-11 Sr skates. I probably, like a fool will go through a wheel in a weeks because I would need to do like 10 passes to put a completely different hollow on. Then obviously, I will eat the runners and have to replace those.. More ice time fees to try the effects... Something like this can turn into a very expensive hobby for someone like myself.... Especially if I add my daughters figure skates to this as well. I think it is way more economical for me to spend $6 per sharp and continue on with the hollow I use. But this just me, anything new, I jump with both feet into it and have no filter.  So with all rinks I go to, doing the sharpening for $8 to $9 and 2 hockey stores that do it for $6 and doing an exceptional job at that, I was able to stay away from getting my own sharpenign rig... even though the thought have crossed my mind more than once.. a lot more than once actually....

 

Now, my estimations of the wheel life is complete bogus shot in the dark and I might be ways off from the reality. Whomever had this for long enough to get new wheels, please comment on that.  I (and probably many others) would like to know how many passes this wheel can do on a skate and what kind of skate is it. Not complete sharpenings, but passes if possible.  Thanks,

[Ten2Four 4]

Doubt anyone here can comment in that depth, but I'd say you're more concerned than you probably should be. Read up on their site, they cover quite a few of your questions. The wheel life indicator has 8 lights, divide that by the 40 sharpening's and at the middle setting (which Sparx recommends for normal wear) that means you should get 5 sharpening's per light. I've done my goalie skates once, and my player skates 2 1/2 times (two at the middle setting, one at the quarter setting for a refresh). The first light has started to fade which would be right in line with their projections assuming you use the normal setting.

[kovalchuk71 212]

How was Sparx able to create FBV wheels? Isn't there a patent on it from Blackstone?

[ZamboniFever 32]

Hey Guys and Gals - Russ here from Sparx.

 

I thought I would check in to MSH tonight to see if anyone had questions about Sparx.  I can address some of the wheel life questions raised above and also provide an update on the feedback we are getting.  Hopefully you're cool with me chiming in.  I figured it's best to hear it from the source.

 

First, on wheel life.  Each Sparx grinding ring has a useful life of 40 skate sharpenings (pairs of skates).  One sharpening is two skates at 4 cycles (1 cycle = down and back across blade) per skate or 8 cycles total per pair.  8 cycles * 40 pair = 320 cycles per grinding ring.  This is how long the abrasive lasts on the ring.  

 

The Sparx Sharpener has a "grinding ring life" display on the top of the unit which has 10 segments.  Each segment represents 10% of the life of a wheel or 4 pairs of skates to be sharpened. 10 segments * 4 pair per segment = 40 pairs of skates (4 cycles per skate, 8 cycles per pair)  Kgbeast asked about blade length - this doesn't play into the life calculation.  Each ring sharpens 40 pairs of skates (320 cycles) regardless of skate size. 

 

Users can adjust how many cycles will be run on their skates.  We set the default to 4 cycles because that's what we found worked best for people skating a few times in between sharpenings.  As a side note - Sparx removes the same amount of material per pass that an average human sharpener does (we figured this out experimentally and then designed Sparx to mimic that removal rate).   Sparx also provides constant pressure everywhere along the skate blade length so your blade rocker/radius never changes.  With Sparx you'll never get the banana effect at the heel and toe.

 

One of the greatest benefits of Sparx is that your sharpening behavior changes from a repair mentality to a preparation mentality.  Many people who own Sparx now sharpen their skates every 1 to 2 times they skate.  Across my whole playing career I always felt super confident on my skates right after I got my skates sharpened and then my performance and confidence would degrade until I finally broke down and went to get them sharpened again (up and down throughout the whole season).  You'll never experience that behavior again once you have Sparx.  With Sparx it's so easy to keep your skates in perfect condition at all times and it only takes 3 - 5 minutes to touch up your skates before every game or practice.

 

Once you get in the habit of sharpening more frequently you can experiment by dropping your cycles down to 3 per skate and this will extend the life of your grinding wheel by 25% (or 50 pair of skates per grinding ring).  If on the other hand you get a massive ding in your blade you may need to try more cycles to get it out and that will speed up the ring usage.  We do sell a cross grinding ring for the deep nicks and dings... check out our site for that.  We recommend this for shops or folks that routinely get huge gouges in their blades.  Again, once you change your sharpening behavior you'll get these massive dings a lot less often.

 

The other question asked was about changing from one ROH to another or from FIRE to ROH or back.  I find that the normal 4 cycles seems to work for me when switching between hollows (e.g. 1/2" to 5/8").  One way to know for sure is to put black marker (I use a sharpie) on the surface of the blade in a few spots and try it for four cycles and confirm that the marker is removed.  If the mark is still there, try another cycle or two and you'll be all set.  Sparx is super easy to switch between ROH and FIRE (flat bottom) and experiment to find the hollow that suits your playing style best.  Almost everyone at Sparx is skating on something different after experimenting with various hollows.  This goes to show you that most people, even our in-house Olympian, will find experimenting to be quite valuable.

 

I thought you guys might enjoy an update on Sparx in general.  We now have 100's of Sparx machines out in homes, teams, and pro shops in N. America.   We have been most surprised by the pro shop adoption.  Our commercial users see the operational benefits of Sparx and the value this product brings to their customers by providing them with a consistent sharpening and with quick turn-around.   If you're not in the market for Sparx keep your eyes out for a shop near you using Sparx.

If you are in the market for your own machine (convenience is king) we're nearly out of backorder.  In the next month or so customers will be able to order Sparx and have it ship same day.  We are still accepting pre-orders (no charge until we ship) so if you want Sparx for the start of this season you should buy it now as we are getting new pre-orders every day.

 

We also recently met with many NHL/AHL/and college teams at the annual meeting of pro equipment managers in Nashville.  At this meeting we were grilled by some of the most particular skate sharpeners in the world and we impressed the heck out of these guys.  One such EM from a pacific northwest NHL team spent over an hour interrogating me and the machine.  He evaluated surface finish, edge height evenness, edge smoothness, ability to handle bent blades, ease of alignment, and on and on.  We survived and he is one of the first NHL EM's that will be trialing Sparx coming up in the next few weeks.  In total we have around 2 dozen such trials pending and our fingers are crossed that we'll get the green light for some to use Sparx in the regular season.  Here's a link to the talk I gave at the conference for anyone interested in hearing me talk even more about Sparx:

https://www.facebook.com/sparxhockey/videos/1053048344780569/

 

Hopefully these answers and the update helps people out.  We are here for you guys anytime you need us at help@sparxhockey.com. 

 

Enjoy the rest of your summer,

Russ Layton

CEO/Founder, Sparx Hockey

[mc88 160]

22 hours ago, ZamboniFever said:

Hey Guys and Gals - Russ here from Sparx.

 

I thought I would check in to MSH tonight to see if anyone had questions about Sparx.

One thing I've noticed, with two different sets of steel that have been sharpened, the grinding ring doesn't quite reach the end of the toe. For example, as you can see in the images below, the grinding ring hits the heel at the proper height, but stops short toward the end of the toe (I have two different skates, two different sets of steel with different heights and both have the same toe issue)...

 

If I raise the height of the grinding ring, then it'll throw off the contour of the heel. Any suggestions?

 

 

Heel:

 

Toe:

 

Different skate, different steel, different height...

Heel:

 

Toe:

Edited July 22, 2016 by mc88

[mc88 160]

Just a follow-up:

I reversed the direction of the skate (toe hits grinding ring first then heel last) and now it's hitting the toe in the right spot and only leaving 2-3% unsharpened at the extreme heel.

 

Also, when switching between ROH and Fire, in my testing, you'll want at least 6-10 grinds. 2 will zero it out, 4 will set it to 50% sharp, 6 will sharpen it to about 80%-90% sharp and 8-10 will make it 100% sharp.

Edited July 22, 2016 by mc88

[ZamboniFever 32]

Thanks for the excellent question mc88.  Great job figuring out the workaround for skates that have an unevenly worn heel/toe.  This is a technique that our commercial users employ all the time for skates blades like the ones you described.  One of our team members here at Sparx created a video to explain this modified sharpening process.  There's also a tweak to your workaround to get the last 2-3% that you're missing.  I hope this helps...

 

 

Just as an FYI - There are many cases where I don't feel it's necessary to clean up every bit of previously sharpened blade at the toe/heel, especially if the heel or toe is excessively worn (e.g. banana shaped).  What we find is that most professional sharpeners are only trying to reach up there for cosmetic reasons (unfortunately they also are the ones that create this excessively worn area trying to reach up there).  If you're positive that you'll never be skating up on this 2-3% of edge - there's a good chance you don't really need to sharpen it AND you'll just be wasting your time tweaking the skate/machine to get it.  The nice thing about Sparx is it's pretty easy to take care of if you want to and also easy to skip... it's your call.  Whatever makes you most comfortable on the ice.

 

Best regards,

Russ

[kovalchuk71 212]

20 hours ago, mc88 said:

One thing I've noticed, with two different sets of steel that have been sharpened, the grinding ring doesn't quite reach the end of the toe. For example, as you can see in the images below, the grinding ring hits the heel at the proper height, but stops short toward the end of the toe (I have two different skates, two different sets of steel with different heights and both have the same toe issue)...

 

If I raise the height of the grinding ring, then it'll throw off the contour of the heel. Any suggestions?

 

 

Heel:

 

 

Toe:

 

 

 

Different skate, different steel, different height...

Heel:

 

 

Toe:

 

Leave the height alone. You don't need to sharpen those areas of the steel. When do you skate on those parts???? Never.

 

 All you're going to do is Banana the profile of the steel in the long run.

 

Source: I've sharpened skates for a decade.

 

 

Edited July 22, 2016 by kovalchuk71

[mc88 160]

1 hour ago, ZamboniFever said:

Thanks for the excellent question mc88.  Great job figuring out the workaround for skates that have an unevenly worn heel/toe.  This is a technique that our commercial users employ all the time for skates blades like the ones you described.  One of our team members here at Sparx created a video to explain this modified sharpening process.  There's also a tweak to your workaround to get the last 2-3% that you're missing.  I hope this helps...

 

Just as an FYI - There are many cases where I don't feel it's necessary to clean up every bit of previously sharpened blade at the toe/heel, especially if the heel or toe is excessively worn (e.g. banana shaped).  What we find is that most professional sharpeners are only trying to reach up there for cosmetic reasons (unfortunately they also are the ones that create this excessively worn area trying to reach up there).  If you're positive that you'll never be skating up on this 2-3% of edge - there's a good chance you don't really need to sharpen it AND you'll just be wasting your time tweaking the skate/machine to get it.  The nice thing about Sparx is it's pretty easy to take care of if you want to and also easy to skip... it's your call.  Whatever makes you most comfortable on the ice.

 

Best regards,

Russ

WOW! Now that's what I call customer service! Huge thanks for taking the time and creating a video. Thanks Sparx Team!

 

My second guess was going to be angling the runner in the clamp, but didn't want to risk having a flattened stopping point along the bottom of the heel. Thankfully turning the skate around did the trick for me, so for me at least, I didn't find the need to go down this path.

 

Anyway, thank you Russ! Always good to see the CEO listening and interacting with his customer base!

36 minutes ago, kovalchuk71 said:

Leave the height alone. You don't need to sharpen those areas of the steel. When do you skate on those parts???? Never.

 

 All you're going to do is Banana the profile of the steel in the long run.

 

Source: I've sharpened skates for a decade.

 

 

This extreme toe area is mainly used during the stride. As a coach, we teach our students to flick the toe at the end of the leg extension to get that extra wee bit of energy (it works, try it!). There was also some controversy among the coaches about how to do a quick start. Flat blade or on the extreme end of the toes (where the student would leave some tiny pin holes in the ice for the first couple of strides). The verdict is still out on that one, but there are two examples of why you'd want that area sharp!

 

As for the 2-3% not being sharpened on the heel, as opposed to the toe, I don't see that as much of an issue.  

Edited July 22, 2016 by mc88

[mc88 160]

Also, for those who are considering the Sparx Fire (FBV) rings, as mentioned many times in the FBV thread, be mindful of the ice conditions you'll be skating on!

 

For me, when the ice was HARD, the Sparx 5/8" Fire ring felt closer to a 3/4"-1" ROH. While their 1/2" Fire ring felt closer to a 9/16"-5/8" ROH... believe me... I found that out the hard way during a practice!

Edited July 22, 2016 by mc88

[kovalchuk71 212]

Even with Toe Flick to the extreme, I see no way that you would be able to touch that portion of the blade to the ice during a stride. 

[Vet88 674]

Hate to diasgree but there are literally hundreds of examples out there where toe starts are exactly where you use that part of the blade. For example have a look at this at the 1 minute mark as he hits the ice in his 1st, 2nd and 3rd stride:

 

[flip12 714]

Off-topic, but man, outside edge landing leg at the end of that video. Nice shot of good form.

 

Edit: Forgot I had a point on topic as well...added below.

 

Another time that part of the blade gets used is in toe-pick-and-carve situations (demonstrated by Cruikshank and Fedorov).

I found the local shop didn't round off the toe, so when I'd go to do that, the pointed toe would dig in like a rudder and steer me away from where I was intending to go.

Edited July 22, 2016 by flip12

[colins 246]

 

I'm tracking which skates I sharpen, how many passes and which ring I used in a spreadsheet (that's normal, right??) because I'm curious about the grinding ring use as well.

 

From Russ' explanation, it seems pretty straight forward - the machine knows how many passes a grinding ring has made and by the 320th pass, the light is going to indicate the ring is worn out and you should get a new one.

 

Now from a technical POV, that has me curious... is it the machine storing how many passes it's seen the ring for (that would be somewhat flawed but maybe cheaper to implement), or is the info about the number of passes stored on each ring itself and then transmitted to the machine when it starts up? This would be a better technical solution but I don't know enough about RFID to know if it's practical to put that capability in the RFID chip in the ring itself. The problem with the first approach is obviously when multiple machines are in play and rings get used between different machines, the tracking wouldn't be accurate. 

 

I had my first skate last night on my touched up edges (just 2 passes as I'd recently had them sharpened and there were no nicks), and my two boys (13 and 15) skated on full 4 pass sharpenings two nights ago. All I can say is we all agreed it's as good as any commercial sharpening we've had. For comparison, I normally will only bring my skates to a buddy (who's a bit of a perfectionist) that owns a Blademaster 850, or to a local shop which uses a CagOne.

 

If Steve or Russ are checking in on the thread - one question I've got is regarding brand new steel. I know from experience that new steel can be a problem for the first sharpening as peaks and valleys in new blades can create dead spots, and if a shop doesn't take the extra passes necessary to level the blade off the first skate can be a real unpleasant experience (don't learn this for the first time during a big tournament when you break a blade folks!).

 

How many passes of a regular grinding ring (on average) would you suggest for new steel (assume CCM speed blade hyperglide runners, if it matters?). I'm thinking the cross grinding ring is next on my wishlist, both for new steel prep and cases where a deep nick has to come out.

 

Colin

[stevebalchunas 32]

Hey Colin, first off, no, that's not normal, but we're not judging ;)

You are correct with the RFID thinking, each ring has its own microchip to track the cycles used. Each time you load a new grinding ring into the machine, you'll notice a bit of a pause when the ring goes back to its "home" position on the right while it's being read. After a few seconds, the life indicator bar will show that ring's life. 

 

As for the new steel, in the manual under Operation > Sharpening New Steel we detail a marker test for determining the amount of passes to run. On average we've found 10 to be the number, hence the 10 cycle button, but it will always vary a bit. The steel is stamped in a way in which there is not much control on how level that bottom surface is. Sometimes we see brand new blades that are dead on, then other times they can be 5 to 6 thou off. So, give that marker test a try and you'll know, when the marker is gone you're ready to go. 

On another note, same is true for sharpening with Sparx for the first time. We cannot control your last manual sharpening, which means if your edges were uneven, you may need to run more than 4 cycles to get them back to even. You can use the marker test here as well. I'd say on average when we're demoing in the field, 5/6 cycles is the general "get back to even" number. But once you're in the Sparx "ecosystem", 4 is the number that works since we're not repairing uneven edges anymore. 

We're always peeking around the threads, so feel free to ask away if you have any other questions. 

 

Thanks,

Steve

[rlshky 0]

@Russ... Watched your pitch on Facebook for equipment managers.  You mentioned there's a Sparx edge checker and I see there are videos on your youtube etc. about how to use it.  In the video you mentioned improvements to your edge checker compared to other companies.  Just curious what improvements you guys made and where it can be purchased as I haven't found it on your guys website.

[Kgbeast 195]

1 hour ago, colins said:

 

I'm tracking which skates I sharpen, how many passes and which ring I used in a spreadsheet (that's normal, right??) because I'm curious about the grinding ring use as well.

 

From Russ' explanation, it seems pretty straight forward - the machine knows how many passes a grinding ring has made and by the 320th pass, the light is going to indicate the ring is worn out and you should get a new one.

 

Now from a technical POV, that has me curious... is it the machine storing how many passes it's seen the ring for (that would be somewhat flawed but maybe cheaper to implement), or is the info about the number of passes stored on each ring itself and then transmitted to the machine when it starts up? This would be a better technical solution but I don't know enough about RFID to know if it's practical to put that capability in the RFID chip in the ring itself. The problem with the first approach is obviously when multiple machines are in play and rings get used between different machines, the tracking wouldn't be accurate. 

 

I had my first skate last night on my touched up edges (just 2 passes as I'd recently had them sharpened and there were no nicks), and my two boys (13 and 15) skated on full 4 pass sharpenings two nights ago. All I can say is we all agreed it's as good as any commercial sharpening we've had. For comparison, I normally will only bring my skates to a buddy (who's a bit of a perfectionist) that owns a Blademaster 850, or to a local shop which uses a CagOne.

 

If Steve or Russ are checking in on the thread - one question I've got is regarding brand new steel. I know from experience that new steel can be a problem for the first sharpening as peaks and valleys in new blades can create dead spots, and if a shop doesn't take the extra passes necessary to level the blade off the first skate can be a real unpleasant experience (don't learn this for the first time during a big tournament when you break a blade folks!).

 

How many passes of a regular grinding ring (on average) would you suggest for new steel (assume CCM speed blade hyperglide runners, if it matters?). I'm thinking the cross grinding ring is next on my wishlist, both for new steel prep and cases where a deep nick has to come out.

 

Colin

 

RFID in the stone is a pretty good idea. RFIDs are generally have no memory in the to write in, but they have enough memory to store the searial number of the tag (the ID number itself). This ID number is programmable via the RFID reader that reads the tag. Since we do not care about the ID number, the ID number can be the number of passes that the wheel made. You would write the new number at the end of the sharpening cycle and read it in the beginning of the cycle. There could be a finite number of time you can write the tag, but it should be enough to write it 40 times (or whatever the limit of sharpening per wheel  is).

 

How desirable this is is to be determined. Obviously, chip itself will cost a couple of dollars. But you'd have to put it in the wheel without offsetting its balance. I would expect the cost of the wheel go up $10 at least. Then, you need to add the reader and re-write the machines software to do all this, plust you might need to add a little bit more hardware for communicating with the reader which machine does not have already. If all that adds another $200 to the cost of machine I would not be surprised. That said, if the feature is a must (for example if you switch wheels all the time and move them from one machine to the next, it could worth the effort and additional expense.

[Kgbeast 195]

6 hours ago, flip12 said:

Off-topic, but man, outside edge landing leg at the end of that video. Nice shot of good form.

 

Edit: Forgot I had a point on topic as well...added below.

 

Another time that part of the blade gets used is in toe-pick-and-carve situations (demonstrated by Cruikshank and Fedorov).

I found the local shop didn't round off the toe, so when I'd go to do that, the pointed toe would dig in like a rudder and steer me away from where I was intending to go.

 

Pretty sweet... I have watched some youtube clips and these moves are works of art. Especially when Datchuk makes a defensman fall on his ass and slide out of the game... 

 

[stevebalchunas 32]

1 hour ago, rlshky said:

@Russ... Watched your pitch on Facebook for equipment managers.  You mentioned there's a Sparx edge checker and I see there are videos on your youtube etc. about how to use it.  In the video you mentioned improvements to your edge checker compared to other companies.  Just curious what improvements you guys made and where it can be purchased as I haven't found it on your guys website.

 

 

 Hope you don't mind me chiming in on this one. 

 

While not groundbreaking by any means, we took a look at all the edge checkers out there and took all the things we liked and improved them. This is the edge checker I would design if you let me go crazy (although Russ (the real engineer) gets most of the credit, I'll take a sliver). The main goal was to create a one-handed version, one that was very accurate AND quick/easy to install measure and move on. Here's what we have...

-Wear plate on tippy bar: no more bad readings when the paint gets chipped or the metal wears down.

-Tippy bar Storage: We've embedded a magnet in the base, and carved out a spot for the bar to sit in (and stay, thanks to the magnet). 

-Short Throat: We wanted our main two center lines to always be true center, we didn't like how some edge checkers function differently when used on short/worn down steel. Now, brand new steel and worn down steel will always use the true center line as, well, the true center line. 

-Spring Loaded Clip: Helps to keep this a one-handed tool

-Recessed Edges: We found that when the tippy bar is the exact length of the base, sometimes it can be hard to read, so now the bars ends run off the edge of the tick marks making it easier to read.
-Protection Wings: when the bar is being stored, we have two wings on each side that help guide it into place and keep it safe if/when it's dropped. 

I've attached a few pics of an "almost" final version. The real deal should be available sometime in August on our site. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[218hockey 50]

On 3/14/2015 at 4:47 PM, flyers10 said:

If I had a household of kids playing too I'd grab one. For just me it's not worth it yet as my LHS only charges $4 a sharpen.

 

 

Ya, I love doing things like this and I'm very detailed (anal) orientated. But our local shop charges $35 for eight sharpenings and I only have one player in the household.

[colins 246]

5 hours ago, stevebalchunas said:

Hey Colin, first off, no, that's not normal, but we're not judging ;)

...

As for the new steel, in the manual under Operation > Sharpening New Steel we detail a marker test for determining the amount of passes to run. On average we've found 10 to be the number, hence the 10 cycle button, but it will always vary a bit. The steel is stamped in a way in which there is not much control on how level that bottom surface is. Sometimes we see brand new blades that are dead on, then other times they can be 5 to 6 thou off. So, give that marker test a try and you'll know, when the marker is gone you're ready to go. 
...

 

Thanks,

Steve

 

 

Lol... thanks for non-judging, I feel like this is a very trusting environment to share in!

 

Ok - so now I'm starting a spreadsheet for every question I ask that the answer to is: RTFM. To atone, I went back to the manual and read it cover to cover. Turns out it explains pretty much everything you'd need to know. Kudos on covering all the bases Sparx :)

 

 

Colin

 

[rlshky 0]

Thanks Steve, appreciate the response.  Learning about the existence of your guys company/product this last week has definitely left me with some decisions to make.  You may have a new customer in the near future.

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, 218hockey said:

 

 

Ya, I love doing things like this and I'm very detailed (anal) orientated. But our local shop charges $35 for eight sharpenings and I only have one player in the household.

 

You guys are lucky... Been $10 a sharpening at all the local places here for a couple years

 

[stevebalchunas 32]

3 hours ago, colins said:

Lol... thanks for non-judging, I feel like this is a very trusting environment to share in!

 

Ok - so now I'm starting a spreadsheet for every question I ask that the answer to is: RTFM. To atone, I went back to the manual and read it cover to cover. Turns out it explains pretty much everything you'd need to know. Kudos on covering all the bases Sparx :)

 

 

Thanks Colin,

 

Then if we're not judging... I had to google RTFM. Going to add that one to the repertoire for sure. 

 

I think these are all great questions BTW. While we tried to fit everything into that manual, there's still a lot of things we don't cover such as: "hey, if this is your first time, you'll probably need to run a few extra cycles (new steel or not) either because you a) have waited 6 or 7 hours since your last sharpen or b) the last one wasn't very level. In the field, I'd see we see either a or b 90% of the time.