CAG One Profile suggestions needed

[flyers10 57]

I found a LHS that uses the CAG One for doing profiles. Searching here and online gave some info but not as much as I'd thought. I know the shop will recommend something to me but I'd like to have an idea from experienced users of it what is a good idea vs. bad idea. My skates are size 8, 272 runner Fusion steel. Will probably switch to some LS4 once more readily available and the breakage issue is resolved. I saw on the Cag site 4 suggestions for my skate size: 25-40 FWD, 30-40 Leaning FWD, 25-45 D, 30-45 Leaning D. No clue what they mean and what is best to start with. I play FWD 85% of time and D 15%. (pick up/beer league) Anyone experienced that can recommend a good starting point?

[jimmy 194]

Start with a 25/40, this will give you a 40mm flat spot 5mm forward of center for just a little forward lean. It has the "feel" performance wise of a 9' radius. On your size blades if you go with a larger flat, they'll start to feel like skis, especially for a foward like yourself. Granted some skaters like the larger flats, but starting with a 40mm should be fine and you can adjust from there. If you were strictly a foward at 30/40 would be good.

CAGS put a flat spot on your blade, so if you have a 272mm blade, the only change is putting the flat near the middle, the rest of your stock radius won't change. So if you get for example a 25/40, you'll have that 40mm flat in the middle and the bauer 9' on each side of that.

Hope that helps.

[psulion22 402]

Hey Jimmy. I'm sure it's been asked before, but I'm a little unclear. What's the fundamental difference between a CAG profile added and your triple flat radius? I know you guys have templates for putting the profiles on the blade, but is a CAG 60mm section on a 9' radius the same as, or similar to, your 9/60/9?

[jimmy 194]

Hey Jimmy. I'm sure it's been asked before, but I'm a little unclear. What's the fundamental difference between a CAG profile added and your triple flat radius? I know you guys have templates for putting the profiles on the blade, but is a CAG 60mm section on a 9' radius the same as, or similar to, your 9/60/9?

A CAG just puts a flat spot in middle of blade. I have a CAG and can do that as well, but the 9/60/9' on my website is an actual radius template bar. Difference in outcome is you'll have a perfect 9' radius on each side of the flat, where on the CAG, you don't, it doesn't radius that area. How do you know that stock 9' is actually a true balanced 9' before? You don't. The cag simply puts the flat in middle of existing contour, whatever that may be. If your radius is F'd up before, it'll still be F'd up after.

[flyers10 57]

Jimmy, if the CAG only puts a flat spot on the blade and doesn't make sure the blade is say a 9' radius, what is the benefit of having it done?

[jimmy 194]

Jimmy, if the CAG only puts a flat spot on the blade and doesn't make sure the blade is say a 9' radius, what is the benefit of having it done?

A lot of skaters like the flat spot for the extra speed and balance it gives if located on the right part of the blade. I've done thousands of CAG radius over the years, it works well.

[psulion22 402]

A CAG just puts a flat spot in middle of blade. I have a CAG and can do that as well, but the 9/60/9' on my website is an actual radius template bar. Difference in outcome is you'll have a perfect 9' radius on each side of the flat, where on the CAG, you don't, it doesn't radius that area. How do you know that stock 9' is actually a true balanced 9' before? You don't. The cag simply puts the flat in middle of existing contour, whatever that may be. If your radius is F'd up before, it'll still be F'd up after.

A lot of skaters like the flat spot for the extra speed and balance it gives if located on the right part of the blade. I've done thousands of CAG radius over the years, it works well.

I was assuming that the 9' radius was known to be correct.

So I'll clarify. If I send you my steel, what is the fundamental difference between your 9/60/9, and having you put a 9' on and then CAG the 60? Wouldn't the second option actually be better because you could customize where you are putting the flat for each skater? This isn't just hypothetical. If I have to send you my steel, I'd like to know the best option for me.

[jimmy 194]

One of the biggest myths is that stock radius are accurate. Regardless of skate manufacturer, the radius on the mass produced runners can vary quite a bit from the published stock radius, so for example the left runner could have a 8.3' and the right a 9.5. You never know, 90% out of the box are not what the manufacturer claims. Remember, these are mass produced by a subcontractor.

If your blades are fairly new, you should go to your local guy and have him do them. If you like them, then you are golden. If they feel funky, you can then give me a buzz. 60mm flat might be too much for your size steel, you may want to try a 40mm flat.

[psulion22 402]

One of the biggest myths is that stock radius are accurate. Regardless of skate manufacturer, the radius on the mass produced runners can vary quite a bit from the published stock radius, so for example the left runner could have a 8.3' and the right a 9.5. You never know, 90% out of the box are not what the manufacturer claims. Remember, these are mass produced by a subcontractor.

If your blades are fairly new, you should go to your local guy and have him do them. If you like them, then you are golden. If they feel funky, you can then give me a buzz. 60mm flat might be too much for your size steel, you may want to try a 40mm flat.

I have your 9/50/9 right now. I could go to 60 without a problem. I fully trust in the knowledge and abilities of your shop, so this isn't an issue of mismatched radius.

If I buy new steel (and I anticipate to once LS4 is more available and the known issues have been fixed for sure) and send it to you, which will be a better option? Assume I know that the radius will not be accurate and you will have to fix it, and I am aware of the cost of that. Wouldn't CAG be better because you can place that flat where it's best suited for me?

Edited July 1, 2015 by psulion22

[jimmy 194]

I have your 9/50/9 right now. I could go to 60 without a problem. I fully trust in the knowledge and abilities of your shop, so this isn't an issue of mismatched radius.

If I buy new steel (and I anticipate to once LS4 is more available and the known issues have been fixed for sure) and send it to you, which will be a better option? Assume I know that the radius will not be accurate and you will have to fix it, and I am aware of the cost of that. Wouldn't CAG be better because you can place that flat where it's best suited for me?

The size of flat is dependent on a few variables, skate runner length being critical. Over the years I've had many who hated anything over 50mm. North American skaters do not like the larger ones like euro skaters do. Again, so many variables. BTW I can place a flat anywhere as well, not just using the cag.

[RussianPlayer 0]

Interesting data.. I have apx2 272 and ls3( supposedly 10' radius from the factory) steel.

Just had 2 pairs of blades done on Cag. My main complaint was is that I wanted something to be done to the blade, so that it matches better with my body mechanics.

Exactly what I mean is that I feel that I have to over compensate for balance when doing 90degree stops and pivots and transitions.

I feel that I would be much more stable and it would not require me extra effort to perform the above if I had my lean switched to the back- more into arch and hill area of the foot.

Since apx2 blade holder by default has a lean forward, so is LS3 blade .. was told that putting 25-45 would help to get me into more neutral.

I did try 25-45 on ice for like 5 mintues and it seemed better. I asked if my other pair of blades can to be done the way that I have even a little more lean back than 25-45.

I was advised 30-45. I looked at http://cagone.com/img/profiler.pdfmanual and it shows that this would actually give me 30mm of a lean forward vs a lean back of what I asked for.

Am I correct or am I missing something here? I have not tried 30-45 on ice yet.

Before I read this post I had seem to have a clouded idea. I thought Cag also does profile of the overall blade and not just putting a flat spot on.

Maybe I could have placed a flat spot myself using my X01 blade stone machine? LoL

Edited November 20, 2015 by RussianPlayer

[flyers10 57]

I would think the closest setting to moving you a bit more towards your heels would be either 25-50 or 20-45.

[jimmy 194]

Any setting that has more of the flat forward of center will cause the skate to pitch forward. The CAG does not profile the whole blade. Your shop should know how to put you more toward your heels if that's what you want.

[RussianPlayer 0]

I would think the closest setting to moving you a bit more towards your heels would be either 25-50 or 20-45.

I agree.... it makes sense numbers wise... dont know why many lhss kinda suck and i dont seem to have one close by that I know that I can tell...yes these guys will do it right :)

Edited November 30, 2015 by RussianPlayer

[strosedefence34 175]

Bumping an old thread for information.  Rumor has it my LHS is getting one of these machines soon.  If I am reading the thread correctly it looks like it moves the balance point of your blade forward if you want that and puts a flat spot on your blade.  What it doesn't look like the machine is able to do is put a normal 9ft radius on a skate.  What @jimmy seemed to point out to me is if the profile on the skate is off to start with (ie. suppose to be a 10ft, but one blade is a 9.75 and the other is 10.25) this profiler won't be able to match them up for a 25-40 and each blade will still be off?

TLDR:
Can the CAG profiler put a 9ft radius on a skate?
If the radius on both skates are off to start with can the CAG profiler match them up and make them the same?

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

No.  CAGs don't profile the entire set of steel.

[strosedefence34 175]

50 minutes ago, JR Boucicaut said:

No.  CAGs don't profile the entire set of steel.

You’re breaking my heart @JR Boucicaut thanks for the info. I will probably still give it a shot and if I don’t like it get my steel re-profiled to something different. 

[strosedefence34 175]

I did find this video where they are giving a 13ft radius on a pair of skates.  Mind you I know nothing about profiling so I am not sure if this is profiling the whole set of steel, but I wonder if this is what the shop is getting.
 

 

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

That's the newer generation machine.

[strosedefence34 175]

I am looking for suggestions on which CAG One profile to try out?  Now that the shop has got it up and running I would like to test them out.  I was thinking of starting out with their recommended one of either 25-40 or 30-40 for a size 8 blade.  I did see Crosby is using their 30-60 on 280 holders so obviously, you don't have to follow what their chart says.

Anyone have experience and can recommend a profile for a 272 blade?

[Buzz_LightBeer 960]

If you want a forward pitch, I'd begin with the 25/45, see how you feel. Another option if you want more blade on the ice is to go Forward pitch for one holder size higher (25/45)

I prefer a lot of contact on the ice, and experimented, ended up on 280's, 35/65 CAG Profile. From what i experienced, most any appropriate CAG profiling felt better than stock steel profile, so you should notice it feeling better immediately. 

[strosedefence34 175]

Question about setting up new steel on the CAG.  Do I cross grind then put the steel in the CAG and set my desired profile then finish it on the blademaster or do I cross grind put an edge on it put it in the CAG and then finish it on the blademaster.  The latter of the two seems a bit redundant.  I just want to make sure I am doing it right. 

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

The former.

I make sure they're even first (cross grind on Prosharp in tandem) then apply the profile.  

You may want to invest in Custom Skateworks' profiling jig to get both sets even.  I still use it on the Prosharp - they provide a magnetic tool to hold both sets, but with the CSW jig there's a bit more weight to it.

[strosedefence34 175]

Thanks, @JR Boucicaut  as it turns out it's not my shop and I don't make the decisions so I just get to work with what I have.  Thanks for the suggestions though.

[BrianK 2]

What shop(s) does a great job with Cag one? Jimmy,  what is name of your shop?