W10 Gionta Curve (on Warrior Customizer now)

[Cosmic 178]

I am about to request an order from the Warrior Stick Customizer. The good folk at Warrior have provided this image, when I questioned about whether the W10 is a closed or slightly open or open face. I am also curious about its profile (tall, tall at toe, short at heel etc.). I know that this topic has been discussed ad nauseum, I actually did a search but the previous topic on this has been "Archived"). For those using the W10, can you please snap some overhead and side pics, and post so I can see if this is what I want? I use P88, which is perfect, except that I want the curve further down toward the toe, and I want the toe more closed. I want less distance for the puck to travel when I shoot wrist shots, and want my shots to be lower, without having to roll my wrists. The top overhead view looks perfect- very closed, but then the overhead view on the right makes the pattern look rather open. Can anyone please comment which is it? Many have directed me toward Gionta; someone said there is something about it that I may not like (something about the rocker or heel height I think), but for the most part, seems like this will work. I like the rocker of the W88, but the rocker of W92 was too much, so that I was fanning on passes as the puck snuck under the toe hen I tried to wrist pass. Just doing a bit of research before I make the buy:

 

[URL=http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/IceCosmic/media/D5793D9D-2F21-4B27-A99B-32B34F79FC03_zps6ojhto3w.png.html][/URL]

 

PS- Someone described us accurately at the end of this thread (last sentence), which I also stumbled on when looking into this question:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hockeyplayers/comments/48j1bl/closed_or_neutral_toe_curves/

 

[althoma1 574]

I'd say it's mostly closed, but opens up a touch near the end. I didn't take any new pictures, but here are a few already online:

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/karpsam/media/zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzWarriors013.jpg.html

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/karpsam/media/zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzWarriors016.jpg.html

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/karpsam/media/zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzWarriors015.jpg.html

Another Warrior curve available in the customizer that starts closer to the toe than the P88 and is closed is the Warrior Smyth. The Smyth curve is a little deeper than the Gionta and doesn't start as close to the toe, but is more closed. The Smyth has a bevelled toe (similar to the Kovalchuk pro stock pictured above). You may want to consider that one as well.

This is a Zherdev Pro curve (based on one of Kovalchuk's patterns), but is very similar to the Smyth:

In this pic, the Smyth is on top and the Gionta is on the bottom:

Gionta left, Smyth right:

Gionta left, Smyth Right:

[malcb33 97]

12 hours ago, Cosmic said:

I use P88, which is perfect, except that I want the curve further down toward the toe, and I want the toe more closed. I want less distance for the puck to travel when I shoot wrist shots, and want my shots to be lower, without having to roll my wrists.

The Gionta (w10) is probably just as open as the p88 towards the toe, but is probably more closed during the mid portion of the blade. I don't think you reasoning is good here though. Using a closed pattern to cover up lazy, bad form on your wrist shot is never the answer. I could understand if it were extremely open, but neither the p88 or w10 are that. If you are completely sold on having a totally closed toe curve, Base's p71 Malkin pro is what you are looking for. It's very close to the same curvature as the w10 but is closed the whole way.

[kyleo29 58]

If you want something to stay low without rolling your wrists i think you want a pm9 or equivalent curve. Without correct form the gionta is gonna go high almost everytime.

[hawkeyfan 36]

cosmic, have you looked at the retail kovalchuck curve?  They still make a blade in it and it is one of the blades that I can say is closed at the toe.

[Cosmic 178]

11 hours ago, malcb33 said:

The Gionta (w10) is probably just as open as the p88 towards the toe, but is probably more closed during the mid portion of the blade. I don't think you reasoning is good here though. Using a closed pattern to cover up lazy, bad form on your wrist shot is never the answer. I could understand if it were extremely open, but neither the p88 or w10 are that. If you are completely sold on having a totally closed toe curve, Base's p71 Malkin pro is what you are looking for. It's very close to the same curvature as the w10 but is closed the whole way.

I loved the Malkin Pro P71 from BASE for shooting, but stick-handling was a bit tricky as the toe hook was about twice as big as I would have liked. I am not sure lazy is the right term- I grew up using the only curve available from when I was a kid, which was a closed mid. So, rolling the wrists was unnecessary; if you want to lift the puck, you just tilt the wrists back. I shoot hard, it is just millions of shots on the street with all the muscle memory that is hard to undo. When I try to roll the wrists and shoot low, then I lose like half of the velocity from my shots.

 

10 hours ago, kyleo29 said:

If you want something to stay low without rolling your wrists i think you want a pm9 or equivalent curve. Without correct form the gionta is gonna go high almost everytime.

Tried it- the curve is too much of a heel though for my liking. I like to shoot "old school wrist shots" (heel to toe), but starting more toward the mid/toe so I can get it off quicker without losing any velocity. Impossible (for me) with PM9.

 

7 hours ago, hawkeyfan said:

cosmic, have you looked at the retail kovalchuck curve?  They still make a blade in it and it is one of the blades that I can say is closed at the toe.

Tried it, and yes, I scored more goals and my shots were true. The high lie though, made handling a bit difficult. 

 

You guys are good man (no joke- you live up to the billing in that link; as I do as well) ...

I ought to have added that I like to have a nice, easy curve so I can handle/ pass/ receive passes easily. W88's specs (perfect rocker, height & blade length, lie) in these regards is serving me pretty well. If I could clone P88, move the curve a bit toward the toe, and then close the face, then I'd be in business. I think the Warrior Smyth might be what I am looking for. The Pro Zherdev actually looks perfect, but I doubt that I will find that anywhere, and I think he may have used a 100 flex or so, if I can find a pro stock of his (I am about 85 flex). The Zherdev looks more closed than the Kovy pro, but I admittedly do not know; perhaps the Kovy pro is more closed than I am giving it credit for, and may be worth a try. 

[althoma1 574]

There are many different versions of the Kovy Pro. The one Zherdev had on that stick was a version of a Kovy curve that is pretty damn close to the Smyth. Other Kovy curves are more open; especially more recent versions. I read in another thread that he now uses a curve very similar to the w28.

There are some pictures of a customized Warrior Stick with the Smyth pattern in the old customizer thread. The link below should take you to the specific post:

 

 

[Cosmic 178]

28 minutes ago, althoma1 said:

There are many different versions of the Kovy Pro. The one Zherdev had on that stick was a version of a Kovy curve that is pretty damn close to the Smyth. Other Kovy curves are more open; especially more recent versions. I read in another thread that he now uses a curve very similar to the w28.

Right on; yes I had a look on PSH, and the Kovy Pros there look pretty open. That Zherdev that you posed, looks absolutely perfect tho, for what I want (not taking into account the other considerations- lie, rocker, blade height/ length- which I cannot really asses from the pic). I think I will go with a Smyth; in previous threads I had been directed to the Smyth as well, but for whatever reason did not yet inquire to Warrior about it. The guy I am working with is on vacation until Sept 5, so when he gets back, hopefully I will get a Smyth blade image like the Gionta one that he gave me, and will drop it into this thread at that time.

The only thing with the Smyth that I am not sure about is that beveled blade- seems like it will give me an illusion like there is something there when I am moving the puck, providing the puck space to slip underneath and cause me to fan on passes and wristers (which happened when I was in a P92 with that big rocker). I mean, if I want to shoot quick snaps and wristers off the toe, but the toe is missing, this could be an issue HAHA. (I feel like I am in Monty Python in search of the Holy Grail here; I will keep my eye open for a Zherdev).

[althoma1 574]

I edited my post above to include a link to a post with pictures of a custom stick with the Smyth curve. That member ended up putting his up for sale because it was too closed for him.

The beveled toe shouldn't really effect receiving passes. You should be receiving most passes in the middle of the blade anyway. The bevel makes it easier to pull the puck in and do toe drags.

[Cosmic 178]

1 minute ago, althoma1 said:

I edited my post above to include a link to a post with pictures of a custom stick with the Smyth curve. That member ended up putting his up for sale because it was too closed for him.

The beveled toe shouldn't really effect receiving passes. You should be receiving most passes in the middle of the blade anyway. The bevel makes it easier to pull the puck in and do toe drags.

I was fanning on sending passes with the big rocker. I would pass from mid heel to toe, and in my mind there was no rocker, and the puck would just slide under the toe and be left behind me. Very frustrating (this just happened 3 years ago when I made my "comeback" - I immediately got away from big rockers since then, and have not had this issue). I realize it is not a rocker, just curious if that little gap might provide an opening for the puck to be left behind when I try to send passes and wristers.

[althoma1 574]

The Smyth was my go to curve for years and I still use it from time to time, but my current main sticks are Gionta's and Sherwood Smith (really close to the Gionta). For a heel toe pass or wrist shot I find the Smyth to be ideal. With the Gionta I actually had to slightly change my mechanics as I'd find that I'd end up with pucks fluttering if I just tried the same heel to toe motion I used with the Smyth. With the Gionta you have to either drag and shoot or make sure you flick your wrists at the end of the heel to toe motion. If you just let it roll off the end without a good flick of the wrists then you can end up with knuckle pucks. It wasn't a huge transition, but it did take me a few games to figure it out. Now I'm used to it.

I think the Smyth is a better fit for what you're looking for, but I'm a little biased toward that pattern as it's my favourite pattern of all time. The Gionta is a close second though. If I get a custom Warrior stick in the future I'll be torn between the Smyth and Gionta, but would probably lean toward the Smyth.

[flip12 715]

4 hours ago, Cosmic said:

I ought to have added that I like to have a nice, easy curve so I can handle/ pass/ receive passes easily. W88's specs (perfect rocker, height & blade length, lie) in these regards is serving me pretty well. If I could clone P88, move the curve a bit toward the toe, and then close the face, then I'd be in business. I think the Warrior Smyth might be what I am looking for.

The lie might throw you off. I'm pretty sure the Smyth is more rockered heel to toe than the W88, and a bit lower in general lie until the toe where it scoops up.

[Troubadour 46]

I am looking at their custom stick creator and I am seeing a lot of options I've never heard of before, such as the zetterberg pro, selanne, slovak, patchofspagehtti pro. 

 

Does anyone know where I can find the blade charts for these?

[althoma1 574]

There really should have a blade chart for all the custom curves including pictures and specs, but I don't see that either. Ideally they'd also add pictures and descriptions for the different grip options (both the coating and tactile options). As it stands it seems like you're just supposed to know what they are based on the names of the options. Modsquad members are more knowledgeable about those types of options than most - I can only imagine someone who isn't equipment savvy going through the customizer.

Having many custom options is fantastic, but those options should be described in detail (pictures also help) so that customers can make an informed decision. Maybe those descriptions and pictures do exist, but where they're located isn't obvious....emailing a rep and asking for pictures/details seems to be what most are doing (it'd be easier for everyone if those things were just included in the experience).

[althoma1 574]

7 hours ago, flip12 said:

The lie might throw you off. I'm pretty sure the Smyth is more rockered heel to toe than the W88, and a bit lower in general lie until the toe where it scoops up.

The Smyth is definitely a lower lie curve  - Warrior lists it as a 4, the pattern DB has it at a 4.5. I'd say it feels just a touch under 5 to me and the Kane type curves play like a 5.5. So it will play lower than the W88 curve. I'd say the Gionta is a 5 lie (Warrior lists it as a 4 lie); so it will also play a bit lower than a W88.

[chippa13 1844]

10 minutes ago, althoma1 said:

There really should have a blade chart for all the custom curves including pictures and specs, but I don't see that either. Ideally they'd also add pictures and descriptions for the different grip options (both the coating and tactile options). As it stands it seems like you're just supposed to know what they are based on the names of the options. Modsquad members are more knowledgeable about those types of options than most - I can only imagine someone who isn't equipment savvy going through the customizer.

Having many custom options is fantastic, but those options should be described in detail (pictures also help) so that customers can make an informed decision. Maybe those descriptions and pictures do exist, but where they're located isn't obvious....emailing a rep and asking for pictures/details seems to be what most are doing (it'd be easier for everyone if those things were just included in the experience).

This is where I find the MyBauer setup is so much better than the Warrior Customizer.

[flip12 715]

53 minutes ago, althoma1 said:

The Smyth is definitely a lower lie curve  - Warrior lists it as a 4, the pattern DB has it at a 4.5. I'd say it feels just a touch under 5 to me and the Kane type curves play like a 5.5. So it will play lower than the W88 curve. I'd say the Gionta is a 5 lie (Warrior lists it as a 4 lie); so it will also play a bit lower than a W88.

Agreed, except for the Gionta lie. I think it's a touch higher, around 5.25, because it doesn't stay as low as a W01/E4/PM9 from the heel to the middle of the blade. It's really noticeable when shooting, without that soft sweep that the subtle rocker of the E4 provides. It's maybe closer to the W71 Malkin in that respect.

[althoma1 574]

Fair enough. We can both agree that the Smyth is the lowest, Gionta is in the middle and the W88 is the highest lie of the three of them.

[malcb33 97]

15 hours ago, Cosmic said:

I loved the Malkin Pro P71 from BASE for shooting, but stick-handling was a bit tricky as the toe hook was about twice as big as I would have liked.

If you found the toe (curve) of the Malkin pro too big, I don't know how you are going deal with a Kovy pro or Zherdev pro as the toe is much bigger again. The Malkin curve depth is pretty much the same as the Gionta (W10) and Warrior Smyth is slightly deeper again (IMO) so those probably won't work either.

The only curves I can see maybe working for you is the old Kariya pro, Hedjuk pro or Hespeler Roberts curves but I haven't seen any of those in years (assuming you're a RH)

Hedjuk (might be too open)

Kariya

Roberts

I honestly do wish you luck on your quest though. IMO you are better off finding something close and spend the time getting used to the curve, instead of chasing a unicorn (unless you decide it's really worth the money to go custom of course).

[chippa13 1844]

All of the Kariyas that I have seen look more like what you have labeled as Roberts an almost completely straight blade with a subtle twist.

[Chadd 916]

I had some Kariya blades, and the first generation Sakics were the same. The Hespeler Roberts blades that I had were more open than the Kariya/Sakics. You probably won't find any now, but the Steve Sullivan TPS pro blades were great. The latter revisions (E or so) had just a little more toe hook and very little loft. 

[Cosmic 178]

Funny, I had stumbled upon a Gary Roberts Pro Stock, and thought it looked perfect, and requested that BASE consider it. That Kariya looks ideal; I guess that I am just too much in the minority for companies to bring something like that to life. 

I am getting used to the W88- it works pretty well when I play forward, as I am in tight mostly anyway when I shoot, so I am not shooting over the net. When I play D tho, I'd like something that I can fire long wristers with, and not have to worry about breaking the glass behind the goalie (it breaks easily where I play, even on weak shots). We need a Warrior Demo guy like BASE has, so we can try out all the curve options. 

[Cosmic 178]

How does Gionta compare to W28? (leaning toward Gionta after some further consideration)

I recently tried the W28 and like the toe shooting the way that Scott Bjugstad describes it in the Easton vids he put out when the V9 was launching (using the stick like a diving board and letting the puck sail from the toe, no wrist shooting/ heel to toe traveling of the puck at all). I was pretty much putting everything exactly where I wanted (shooting gently, in warmups). However, the W28 was a bit too open, with a bit too much rocker (I did not feel confident stick handling at all, as I like more blade on the ice, and no chance of the puck climbing up the open face if I run into choppy ice- we have lots of choppy ice so this is an issue). I am thinking Gionta is the perfect balance at this time (I am sure I will feel differently by the end of the week).

Also, I have been finding myself playing a lot of defense (RD and I am a RH shot), and I can see pucks sliding under the bevel of the Smyth. The Gionta looks like even tho it is a round toe, it has enough underneath to help me keep the rimmed pucks in at the blue line.

[althoma1 574]

I'd say the lie of the Gionta and W28 is similar, but the Gionta has less rocker and the Gionta is much less open. The Gionta is more open than the Smyth curve, but definitely less open than the W28.