Leafs sign Patrick Marleau

[fastmiele 59]

http://www.tsn.ca/veteran-forward-marleau-signs-with-leafs-1.795020

I am confused. The Leafs had Auston Matthews, Tyler Bozak, Nazem Kadri and Brian Boyle for center men.

Now they get Dominic Moore and Patrick Marleau, they will turn 37 and 38 before the season starts. Ron Hainsey is 36 and not exactly fleet footed either.

 

[IPv6Freely 2092]

I don’t get it. Hainsey I can accept... he’s an upgrade for third pair over Hunwick for sure (who, interestingly enough went to Pittsburgh), but Marleau and Moore make zero sense to me. 

Even more so because Marleau’s signing actually puts them above the cap (which is scary in itself consindering I thought they had a LOT more cap space than this...)

I honestly would have preferred they just iced last years team over the moves they made.

At least they resigned McElhinney. 

[215BroadStBullies610 435]

Wow. When I first saw this, I had the same response you two had haha. I don't get it. Especially at the AAV. Well, I'd have to imagine JVR is on the move.

[flip12 714]

It makes sense if they want to accelerate the young kids' development. Marleau's been a team captain for years and has lots of difficult playoff experience. Moore and Hainsey are also character guys that know what it takes to compete based on the little things that have prolonged their careers, because Marleau's production puts him in the lineup where that's not the case for the other two.

It's a lot of money for Marleau, but it seems like all of this is an investment in the team's character. Literally buying experience in the hopes that it will rub off on the young guns.

[215BroadStBullies610 435]

4 hours ago, flip12 said:

It makes sense if they want to accelerate the young kids' development. Marleau's been a team captain for years and has lots of difficult playoff experience. Moore and Hainsey are also character guys that know what it takes to compete based on the little things that have prolonged their careers, because Marleau's production puts him in the lineup where that's not the case for the other two.

It's a lot of money for Marleau, but it seems like all of this is an investment in the team's character. Literally buying experience in the hopes that it will rub off on the young guns.

Legit point. And it looks the 3rd year of Patty's deal COULD be an issue when it comes time to pay the young boys. By that time, the cap ceiling could be higher and other players could be moved. 

[DarkStar50 679]

Summer starting year 3 on Marleau's deal at $6mil+ cap hit is when 34, 29, and 16 all come off 3 year rookie deals? If so, this can't be good. They are going to want to give 34 a long term deal, no bridge deal, and we are going to be talking $$$$. 29 and 16 won't come cheap either.

IMHO, this "character guy, in the room, leadership" role is the most over-hyped thing in hockey chemistry, Are you basically saying your vets from this past year didn't have it or just an excuse to justify signing a few vets on light $ deals?

 

[Stewie 721]

a big portion of the deal with Marleau is signing bonuses, so trading him before year three shouldn't be an issue. he wont play center for them, he will play LW more likely. he still skates well, but I don't think he's 6mill a year well at this point. that said, if he's paired with Matthews, it's probably an ok signing for at least the first two. 

[chippa13 1844]

I agree with Stewie. Marleau has basically been a wing for SJ for the last several years. He won't see the full 3 years in Toronto. My guess is he'll be a deadline trade during year 2 or wheeled around the 2019 draft.

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12 hours ago, 215BroadStBullies610 said:

Wow. When I first saw this, I had the same response you two had haha. I don't get it. Especially at the AAV. Well, I'd have to imagine JVR is on the move.

JVR is probably gone sooner than  later, it was suspected the Leafs offered him to the Islanders for Harmonic.

[fastmiele 59]

55 minutes ago, Stewie said:

a big portion of the deal with Marleau is signing bonuses, so trading him before year three shouldn't be an issue. he wont play center for them, he will play LW more likely. he still skates well, but I don't think he's 6mill a year well at this point. that said, if he's paired with Matthews, it's probably an ok signing for at least the first two. 

according to the report, Marleau has a full no movement claus.

[215BroadStBullies610 435]

1 hour ago, fastmiele said:

JVR is probably gone sooner than  later, it was suspected the Leafs offered him to the Islanders for Harmonic.

Didn't know that. I was in the minority when it came to how JVR was viewed here in Philly. He isn't a horrible player by no means but he should be a 'cornerstone' player. Or at least, that's how I've always viewed ha. Could be short-sighted on my end.

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19 minutes ago, 215BroadStBullies610 said:

Didn't know that. I was in the minority when it came to how JVR was viewed here in Philly. He isn't a horrible player by no means but he should be a 'cornerstone' player. Or at least, that's how I've always viewed ha. Could be short-sighted on my end.

Not only was JVR offered in the trade, management included a 1st round pick too.

https://editorinleaf.com/2017/06/26/toronto-maple-leafs-trade-2/

 

[flip12 714]

3 hours ago, DarkStar50 said:

Summer starting year 3 on Marleau's deal at $6mil+ cap hit is when 34, 29, and 16 all come off 3 year rookie deals? If so, this can't be good. They are going to want to give 34 a long term deal, no bridge deal, and we are going to be talking $$$$. 29 and 16 won't come cheap either.

IMHO, this "character guy, in the room, leadership" role is the most over-hyped thing in hockey chemistry, Are you basically saying your vets from this past year didn't have it or just an excuse to justify signing a few vets on light $ deals?

But who among the TML '16-'17 roster compares to Marleau, experience-wise? I don't know how valuable it is or isn't, but I can see Matthews playing with Marleau for a year could accelerate his ascension, even if his learning curve is already leaps and bounds ahead of most of the pack.

I recall Rob Blake saying how he remembers Melrose putting him between Larry Robinson and Gretzky when he was a rookie, because Barry was trying to get it into his head that he could be one of the best defenseman in the world if he would step up to it. https://www.nhl.com/news/blake-used-motivation-to-pave-way-into-hall-of-fame/c-738080

Chemistry's a good way to put it. You put two things together and you're not sure they're going to work...so maybe groundbreaking/theoretical/experimental chemistry. But once in a while it works.

[fastmiele 59]

9 hours ago, flip12 said:

It makes sense if they want to accelerate the young kids' development. Marleau's been a team captain for years and has lots of difficult playoff experience. Moore and Hainsey are also character guys that know what it takes to compete based on the little things that have prolonged their careers, because Marleau's production puts him in the lineup where that's not the case for the other two.

It's a lot of money for Marleau, but it seems like all of this is an investment in the team's character. Literally buying experience in the hopes that it will rub off on the young guns.

True to that, with proven top tier vets, their experience and professionalism may do wonders for the young players on and off the ice.

One other thought has to come my head, may be the Leafs are trying to seriously win the Stanley Cup within the next 2 years. You got Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Kapanen cheap for the next couple of years. After that you got to pay out big contracts for them. Even Lou Lamoriello said he only has the luxury of making these types of signings now. In a couple of years he said it would not be possible.

But then again, I am skeptical of Lou, sometimes I think he is not that honest. He goes on to say that the Leafs don't have a salary cap issue, even though they are $2.5 million over the cap at this present moment and still have a couple of RFA to resign (Conner Brown).

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/mapleleafs

 

 

[fastmiele 59]

13 minutes ago, flip12 said:

But who among the TML '16-'17 roster compares to Marleau, experience-wise? I don't know how valuable it is or isn't, but I can see Matthews playing with Marleau for a year could accelerate his ascension, even if his learning curve is already leaps and bounds ahead of most of the pack.

I recall Rob Blake saying how he remembers Melrose putting him between Larry Robinson and Gretzky when he was a rookie, because Barry was trying to get it into his head that he could be one of the best defenseman in the world if he would step up to it. https://www.nhl.com/news/blake-used-motivation-to-pave-way-into-hall-of-fame/c-738080

Chemistry's a good way to put it. You put two things together and you're not sure they're going to work...so maybe groundbreaking/theoretical/experimental chemistry. But once in a while it works.

good points and article.

Near the end of the season, I think one of his regular wingers Zach Hyman/Conner Brown was moved off his line. I personally think the coach believed even though those two players are playing and trying very hard, they are limited in skill/play and holding Auston Matthews back. You want Matthews play/game to go forward and playing with Marleau may just do it.

 

 

[flip12 714]

Marleau's also a similar size but can beat opponents with finesse and is usually pretty good defensively as well. He ticks a lot of the nice-little-things boxes. If he's paired with Matthews and stays healthy he could put in 30 again, maybe 20 the next year, then who knows? It's still a lot of paper for a guy his age.

[Jamarquan 201]

About 14 million of the Marleau contract is signing bonuses - this means his salary to be paid by the Leafs is only about 1.25 / year, so he's easier to trade  in year two or three to a cash strapped team (who likely has cap space) in return for cheap picks or prospects, thereby extending the Leafs window. The same happened last year with Bernier. Two million of his 4.25 was a signing bonus to be paid on July 1st, which made it easier to deal him to the Ducks because they couldn't afford the whole salary.

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/patrick-marleau-2048/

I think this makes the signing much more  bearable, not to mention he's still a very good player and a good guy for the young guns to learn from.

That said, I wonder who's out the door, and for what.

Edited July 3, 2017 by Jamarquan

[fastmiele 59]

5 hours ago, Jamarquan said:

About 14 million of the Marleau contract is signing bonuses - this means his salary to be paid by the Leafs is only about 1.25 / year, so he's easier to trade  in year two or three to a cash strapped team (who likely has cap space) in return for cheap picks or prospects, thereby extending the Leafs window. The same happened last year with Bernier. Two million of his 4.25 was a signing bonus to be paid on July 1st, which made it easier to deal him to the Ducks because they couldn't afford the whole salary.

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/patrick-marleau-2048/

I think this makes the signing much more  bearable, not to mention he's still a very good player and a good guy for the young guns to learn from.

That said, I wonder who's out the door, and for what.

to be honest I would prefer not to be in any situation to having to beg other teams to take a player off your hands. In these cases, you usually have to pay the team to take them off your hands. Look at Kessel, we are still paying Pittsburgh $1.2 million each year for the next 5 years (until 2022).

Look at the older players we had to bury/buyout .ie. Robidas, Gleason.

Speaking of which isn't Tim Gleason kind of similar in style of play to Hainsey ?