Balance

[sticktime 12]

Curious as to what switching insoles would do to one's overall skating - like if you're used to using the stock insoles and you switched them out for the thick Shock Doctor's, would it throw you off big time?   Since their more beefy all around would that increase thickness in the toe/midfoot/heel throw off your skating?

Or, if you're used to using Superfeet or the CCM high/medium/low arch, or any other aftermarket insoles for that matter, would it throw off your balance or make it harder to hit your edges or skate in general if you changed to a different insole?

Another example would be if someone just skated the stock insoles for years then suddenly dropped a pair of Superfeet in would it make it almost impossible to skate/maneuver?

I know it would for me.  

 

[Kgbeast 195]

I do not think you would want just drop a pair of different insoles if you skates feel and perform right. You'd mitigate some problems using the aftermarket insoles, typically after purchase of new skates or switching brands or if you feel that your balance is off after an injury or something like that. Changing insoles for no reason, can cause problems for sure.

[Leif 161]

There are a number of issues here. Firstly some insoles will lift up your heel, which will change your balance, an example being Superfeet. I got used to them fairly quickly although they did feel odd at first. I'm not convinced I liked the change. Secondly insoles may change the way your skates fit, potentially inducing lace bite and other issues if for example they reduce skate depth. I stopped using Superfeet due to lace bite and arch discomfort. I now use Bauer speed plates which seem not to reduce skate depth, or change the balance. Thirdly, and related to secondly, insoles can change the stability of your foot in the skate and the ice feel. Speedplates improve my foot stability, locking the heel better, increasing the contact area between my feet and the skate and my control, without negatives apart from the price. 

But it's worth noting that skate fit is important, they must lock your heels, have enough depth, and fit closely round the toes. Oh and after fitting insoles it might be worth rebaking the skates. That isn't needed with Speed plates as far as I know. 

[sticktime 12]

Interesting.   

To update, I tried fiddling around with insoles, as I always do to try to get a better fit and balance.    Does anyone skate with out any insoles?  Either both feet or one foot?  My foot issues are that I have flat feet, and my right foot has always been a miserable SOB to deal with.   Tried all kinds of fixes.   To explain it, I guess it pronates or wants to fall in the the inside of the heel.   So I had to resort to wedges at the heel, with a little support in the form of a cut up insole at the arch.    It only on the inside.    That means I've taken out the insole and just have this set up.   

The left foot?   I have no insole.   Meaning my foot feels best when it's flat in the skate.    Any type of insole just feels like it's pushing up on my foot, tried Superfeet, CCM's, the stock, other kinds.   Even just simple craft foam 2mm thick cut in the shape of an insole.   I just like the few of nothing in that skate, nothing under my foot.   I wear thin socks by the way, Thinnees, and still can't feel the rivets.   

So I'm curious if anyone else doesn't use any insoles?     Just likes nothing under their foot.   

[Vet88 674]

On 11/2/2017 at 7:52 AM, sticktime said:

Interesting.   

To update, I tried fiddling around with insoles, as I always do to try to get a better fit and balance.    Does anyone skate with out any insoles?  Either both feet or one foot?  My foot issues are that I have flat feet, and my right foot has always been a miserable SOB to deal with.   Tried all kinds of fixes.   To explain it, I guess it pronates or wants to fall in the the inside of the heel.   So I had to resort to wedges at the heel, with a little support in the form of a cut up insole at the arch.    It only on the inside.    That means I've taken out the insole and just have this set up.   

The left foot?   I have no insole.   Meaning my foot feels best when it's flat in the skate.    Any type of insole just feels like it's pushing up on my foot, tried Superfeet, CCM's, the stock, other kinds.   Even just simple craft foam 2mm thick cut in the shape of an insole.   I just like the few of nothing in that skate, nothing under my foot.   I wear thin socks by the way, Thinnees, and still can't feel the rivets.   

So I'm curious if anyone else doesn't use any insoles?     Just likes nothing under their foot.   

I know some players that have skated without insoles (and some even without socks), if you don't feel the rivets and it works for you then go for it. 

For recreational and the once a week skater, heel wedges (some form of orthotic) and holder movement are the standard fix for flat feet / pronation etc. But if you can train enough then I recommend you start dropping eyelets and learn to skate using your ankle muscles, take away the lateral support of your boot and learn to balance properly over the blade. No laces, that's where you want to get to.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

48 minutes ago, Vet88 said:

I know some players that have skated without insoles (and some even without socks), if you don't feel the rivets and it works for you then go for it. 

For recreational and the once a week skater, heel wedges (some form of orthotic) and holder movement are the standard fix for flat feet / pronation etc. But if you can train enough then I recommend you start dropping eyelets and learn to skate using your ankle muscles, take away the lateral support of your boot and learn to balance properly over the blade. No laces, that's where you want to get to.

You're one of the few crazy enough to do that though... lol 

[Vet88 674]

5 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

You're one of the few crazy enough to do that though... lol 

lol, method in the madness though. Today I found out something else about no laces. After having had surgery and 2 months in a moon boot, my heel / ankle is still really swollen, I can't get my foot into my Jetspeeds. So I dug out an old pair of one100s and skated no laces in them. Different profile, boot, pitch etc. In lace days, it would have taken me at least 2 sessions to adapt between the 2 boots to the point I was comfortable again. With no laces it was a matter of minutes and then I never thought about it again. Natural balance point, your body finds it when the heel isn't getting jammed into the heel pocket.

[sticktime 12]

No laces....i can see maybe gliding around the ice leisurely, but to actually play a game?    How would your feet not come right out of the skates??

Gonna try it though.   

 

I think I remember seeing a pic of an alumni game, red wings maybe, and dude was playing sans laces.    Mind blowing.  

[Vet88 674]

On 11/10/2017 at 5:24 PM, sticktime said:

No laces....i can see maybe gliding around the ice leisurely, but to actually play a game?    How would your feet not come right out of the skates??

Gonna try it though.   

 

I think I remember seeing a pic of an alumni game, red wings maybe, and dude was playing sans laces.    Mind blowing.  

Its a good test to see if your skates fit properly. You should be able to hop over the wall without having to scrunch your toes up to hold your boot on, if your heel slips in the boot and they feel like falling off then something is wrong with the fit. I practice, scrimmage and play games no laces, game wise is still really tough as I still don't have top speed (acceleration is just so much harder and you have to relearn how to skate) but in the league I'm currently playing in it's enough to keep up. Darryl Evans is who you might be thinking of, there's a few pics of him floating around where he played games with no laces. 

[Playmakersedge 58]

There is or maybe was a power skating coach Paul Vincent. And take your laces out was one of the first things he had players do . It was fun  . I met the man training summers with RPI team : we jumped rope with no laces, vertical leap , and worked on edges . Several players from the team went on to have succeful NHL careers and at least one is in the hall of fame  .       Memories man ,coach brought teachers in and had us doing aerobics and ballet .  

[Playmakersedge 58]

On 11/7/2017 at 10:33 PM, Vet88 said:

lol, method in the madness though. Today I found out something else about no laces. After having had surgery and 2 months in a moon boot, my heel / ankle is still really swollen, I can't get my foot into my Jetspeeds. So I dug out an old pair of one100s and skated no laces in them. Different profile, boot, pitch etc. In lace days, it would have taken me at least 2 sessions to adapt between the 2 boots to the point I was comfortable again. With no laces it was a matter of minutes and then I never thought about it again. Natural balance point, your body finds it when the heel isn't getting jammed into the heel pocket.

Today's skates have become like casts. What I am seeing is the hockey position is happening with the angle of the back of the boot.  The skates I played on would eventually get that crease just on the outside at the ankle . It wasn't a fixture it was more organic.  

I'm seeing a different stride on the younger guys.  They are doing most of the work from the hip with more of a push out then flick of the ankle at the finish.   Seeing less of the quad involved.   

[Playmakersedge 58]

On 11/1/2017 at 2:52 PM, sticktime said:

Interesting.   

To update, I tried fiddling around with insoles, as I always do to try to get a better fit and balance.    Does anyone skate with out any insoles?  Either both feet or one foot?  My foot issues are that I have flat feet, and my right foot has always been a miserable SOB to deal with.   Tried all kinds of fixes.   To explain it, I guess it pronates or wants to fall in the the inside of the heel.   So I had to resort to wedges at the heel, with a little support in the form of a cut up insole at the arch.    It only on the inside.    That means I've taken out the insole and just have this set up.   

The left foot?   I have no insole.   Meaning my foot feels best when it's flat in the skate.    Any type of insole just feels like it's pushing up on my foot, tried Superfeet, CCM's, the stock, other kinds.   Even just simple craft foam 2mm thick cut in the shape of an insole.   I just like the few of nothing in that skate, nothing under my foot.   I wear thin socks by the way, Thinnees, and still can't feel the rivets.   

So I'm curious if anyone else doesn't use any insoles?     Just likes nothing under their foot.   

 

[Playmakersedge 58]

The skates from the mid 70' to early 80's just had thin leather as an insole . Bauer some time in the 80's came out with a foam insole. I think they called it super foot or feet. This is about the same time they came out with the gel in the ankles.  The insole was uniform thickness. Going from leather to that felt weird.   Think supreme custom 100 was the top shelf Bauer . The boot was great. The blade and holder was icm, the blade was molded into the holder . 

[Playmakersedge 58]

21 minutes ago, Playmakersedge said:

 

Has this always been the case or just with these skates?    Im wondering if you took a heat gun and formed that heal cup to form it to compensate?

[Playmakersedge 58]

You know I just had a thought. I would like to try an experiment of some how forming the boot to the foot using the baking and then putting a vacuum bag around the laced skate on the foot.  This will push the boot in where ever there is negative space  . 

[JSK81 400]

20 minutes ago, Playmakersedge said:

You know I just had a thought. I would like to try an experiment of some how forming the boot to the foot using the baking and then putting a vacuum bag around the laced skate on the foot.  This will push the boot in where ever there is negative space  . 

CCM had a machine which worked like that.

 

[Playmakersedge 58]

1 hour ago, JSK81 said:

CCM had a machine which worked like that.

 

My self I just learned a hard lesson about fitting . And learning about the knew style skates.  I don't like some of the aspects inherent wit the composite boots . I think it's possible to make that material work : but I think there isn't enough flexibility in the boot . I'm not sure why they have gone this way.  I get the stored energy in the boot, but that energy isn't free the plastic has to be compromised.   T

There will be many more knee injuries.   This boxy quick feet skating style leaves the player very vulnerable threw out there movements.   Look at there hips they are almost always square to where there going or want to be  .

           Watch footage of Wayne skate open ice or amongst adversaries , he is fast evasive and has powerful legs.  In comparison to the other players some times he looked fawn like.  His hips are never square.  He could have his hips right  and the apponent goes to step up to him and Wayne splayed his hips planted the out side edge of his right foot and cut into a 3 turn and he is past the guy.     I don't think these skates will allow that much movement.  

[Playmakersedge 58]

I just bought a pair of CCM RBZ top tier skates that were preowned but maybe used once  . I love them   .  They run big . I'm an 11EE in a Bauer  and a 10EE in these CCM RBZ.           ...... The two pair of tacks 3092 I purchased  were 11.5EE And 11EE  both were to big . I would need a 10.50EE in the tacks  .  I skate bare foot and like my skates tight  .    Don't know your size if one of the two pair of the tacks sounds like they will fit you I can hook you up . I don't know the fit type of your tacks  . I  can tell you the tack line now is a half size smaller than Bauer  . This I learned threw trial and error 

[althoma1 574]

6 hours ago, Playmakersedge said:

 I  can tell you the tack line now is a half size smaller than Bauer  . This I learned threw trial and error 

I don't think that's the case with current Bauer models. It may be with your much older discontinued models, but the current Tacks and Bauer skates are supposed to be size the same lengthwise. Meaning, if you'd ordered Bauer skates in the same size as your old skates you would've likely received skates that were too long as well. 

[Playmakersedge 58]

At the box store I measured on a Bauer sizing scale and came up 11 the tool wasn't labeled for what year . I asked is this current  and he said yes . But I didn't get a confident vibe from the worker .         I need to open a shop 

[althoma1 574]

The Brannock device (measuring tool) is just a starting point and doesn't replace actually trying the skates on. I measure an 8 on the Brannock device, but the closest fit for me in Bauer skates was 7.5EE in Supreme or Vapors or 7.5D in Nexus when I tried them on (none of them fit my foot type perfectly).

If you're a 10.5EE in the current 2016/17 Tacks then you're probably around that size for Bauer skates as well. However, if the Tacks models you were trying/bought were from the 2014/15 line then you may in fact be an 11 in Bauer skates as the brannock device suggests. The sizing of the 2014/15 Tack and 2016/17 Tacks is different. 

Keeping track of the models and sizing changes isn't easy. Reading threads here, plus going to a good store with knowledgeable fitters and trying on as much as you can is the best route to go, but I understand it's not possible or easy for everyone. Well, either that or getting fitted for custom skates by a great fitter if it's in one's budget.

[Playmakersedge 58]

On 8/10/2017 at 1:50 PM, sticktime said:

Curious as to what switching insoles would do to one's overall skating - like if you're used to using the stock insoles and you switched them out for the thick Shock Doctor's, would it throw you off big time?   Since their more beefy all around would that increase thickness in the toe/midfoot/heel throw off your skating?

Or, if you're used to using Superfeet or the CCM high/medium/low arch, or any other aftermarket insoles for that matter, would it throw off your balance or make it harder to hit your edges or skate in general if you changed to a different insole?

Another example would be if someone just skated the stock insoles for years then suddenly dropped a pair of Superfeet in would it make it almost impossible to skate/maneuver?

I know it would for me.  

 

Skates used to have just a thin piece of leather over the rivets and a foam piece at the arch  . I went from this to skates with insoles there was no transition issue . I didn't like the blade and holder  the ICM with the blade molded into the holder . They were thicker and the toes were left with to much steel from the factory punch press cutting the factory radius 8' .  The extra steel on the toe and the heel has to be taken off . Take a new skate and slide your fingers over the blade you can feel it ramp up  . It takes about 8 passes each end..

When a player talks to me about cutting a profile in there blades ; if they are new to it or looking to improve speed I will ask them if they have any footage of them skating.  If they don't I go watch them skate and video .  With this I can see there body position, length of there stride, the depth of there cross over . Then I talk to them go over the video.    I usually can dial them in . I almost always see skating that has gotten the player around the ice but they have never  been  taught refinements to that  .      If a player invests in to 30 sessions with me an practices between he or she will gain speed and edge confidence ..... 

If you have footage of you skating, I can make a few suggestions.   

[YesLanges 127]

On 11/9/2017 at 11:24 PM, sticktime said:

No laces....i can see maybe gliding around the ice leisurely, but to actually play a game?    How would your feet not come right out of the skates??

Gonna try it though.   I think I remember seeing a pic of an alumni game, red wings maybe, and dude was playing sans laces.    Mind blowing.  

Daryl Evans (LA Kings) before an AHL Alumni game. Mindblowing to me but when I brought it up, one of my teammates said his high school coach used to make them do that too. I skate barefoot but wouldn't even consider not taping my skates, let alone dropping an eyelet or without laces...I wouldn't be able to walk across the dressing room without laces, forget about skating. 

How about these?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/correct-motion-7-degree-stabilizer-footbeds/182248231918?hash=item2a6ed753ee

 

 

[Playmakersedge 58]

Having the right size skates is the key.   What I like for a fit is my toes touch the toe cap with a touch of bend sitting, when I stand my toes touch the toe cap straight.     I would do edge work like that .   Need my laces now because I can't feel My feet from in front of the heel forward.    

[salayc 8]

After having some ski boots custom fit, which included a 3D scan and a lot of measuring of feet, ankles, legs, knees, etc. I decided to try out some of the adjustments on my skates. I used duct tape under the insoles to shim left-right, forward-back. By layering the tape I could adjust in all directions. I was also able to add or subtract depending on the feel as well as adjust once I learned how each adjustment felt. 

Try it out, it's easily reversible and a lot easier than shimming holders.