Flare Skate Blade - Anyone seen this or used it? WIder than typical steel

[VegasHockey 1280]

4 minutes ago, JR Boucicaut said:

I had @Monty22 coat mine. 

Interesting, DLC? What specifications did he use? 

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

Not DLC. 

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

[VegasHockey 1280]

1 minute ago, JR Boucicaut said:

How easy is it to scratch off? Did it add any thickness? Is it a type of PVD coating or something else? 

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

Extremely hard. None at all.

We did have a thread on it:

 

[VegasHockey 1280]

9 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

Extremely hard. None at all.

We did have a thread on it:

 

Thank you for sharing. Very interesting. Might have to get some steel coated and try this out. I found someone who does PVD coatings but the cost is high and turnaround time is very long. I would have to do big batches of steel in order for it to be profitable and make sense. 

[psulion22 402]

On 12/20/2018 at 12:34 PM, JR Boucicaut said:

Neither of those really work well as it will hold it at where it flares out.  The thumbscrew on the Flare checker is much lower than the Blademaster.

 

Will the Flare square work on regular steel also?

[superchad 2]

On 1/22/2019 at 11:53 AM, psulion22 said:

Will the Flare square work on regular steel also?

yes, i have one

[ACE 22 QC 5]

Good idea. But the blade gets thinner and thinner after every sharpening.... plus when you get worn out toes and heels (as is almost always the case) this means the ends of the blades will be thinner than the middle... I don't see how this can work...?

[psulion22 402]

Anyone have a method of checking for level edges without a flare square?  They're out of stock, and I'll need to sharpen them soon.  I used to use a speed square on my regular steel,, but that won't work on these.  

[marka 526]

Howdy,

16 minutes ago, psulion22 said:

Anyone have a method of checking for level edges without a flare square?  They're out of stock, and I'll need to sharpen them soon.  I used to use a speed square on my regular steel,, but that won't work on these.  

Put something 4" or so long that's flat across the blade and eyeball it.  Worst case, use a quarter.

My experience is that edges have to be out a decent bit (visible by eye like the above) before it makes a difference.  But having said that, I don't have as much experience as most here.

Mark

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 2/1/2019 at 1:25 PM, marka said:

Howdy,

Put something 4" or so long that's flat across the blade and eyeball it.  Worst case, use a quarter.

My experience is that edges have to be out a decent bit (visible by eye like the above) before it makes a difference.  But having said that, I don't have as much experience as most here.

Mark

You can actually use a prosharp level if you have one, measure it from the left side and right side. The amount it should be off on each side should be equal. If that doesn't make sense I can snap some pics later today. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 1/31/2019 at 9:54 AM, ACE 22 QC said:

Good idea. But the blade gets thinner and thinner after every sharpening.... plus when you get worn out toes and heels (as is almost always the case) this means the ends of the blades will be thinner than the middle... I don't see how this can work...?

You don't really skate on your toes or heel. Also, the primary benefit of Flare is not the width as most people think, its the actual flare of the steel which allows you to get over further on your edges. The width obviously does help with stability and glide, having a more flat hollow, but that's not the main focus of the benefit of the steel. 

[kaisersoze 3]

Ok, I haven't really seen anyone here say they've tried these blades so... I'll be the first?

Wow. Just wow. I normally just roll my eyes whenever I hear hockey marketing and about advanced technology in new gear. 10% faster this, 20% harder that, blah blah blah, etc. But I was able to confirm everything these blades were advertised to do during a skate (no game action yet).

Massive glide, tighter turns and as good or better edges or "bite" using a lesser hollow. For an experienced player and above average skater like myself, this was one piece of equipment where I feel was not just a small, incremental improvement but a next-level type of improvement to my skating. I know that might sound like hyperbole, but that's how it felt after only one 2-hour skate with them.

I'm going to have to try them back-to-back-to-back with my Steps and LS4s, but after the first time with these, I feel like I should just retire the conventional blades.

10 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

You don't really skate on your toes or heel. Also, the primary benefit of Flare is not the width as most people think, its the actual flare of the steel which allows you to get over further on your edges. The width obviously does help with stability and glide, having a more flat hollow, but that's not the main focus of the benefit of the steel. 

I agree with this. Although I thought the wider blade would feel different and more "stable", I really didn't notice anything while standing still. The blade didn't feel wider or any different than normal. It did feel taller though.

As someone who isn't that good in science, I can't wrap my head around how a wider blade would give you more glide... but there it was. It was massive and it was strange in a good way. Yes, I did go down to a 3/4" (The last time I used a conventional sharpening I was going with 5/8". Been using flat-bottom for 5-6 years now) but it was the flare and not the shallow hollow because I was never so smooth before

Feeling how little bite there was initially while gliding, doing basic snowplows and forward strides, I was really hesitant to do a fast tight turn. Well, I was absolutely shocked and delighted that my edges were better and cleaner than, well, ever... using a hollow that would have normally sent me sliding towards the boards on regular blades.

Finally, some truth in advertising. Anyways, that's all I got for now.

[superchad 2]

13 hours ago, kaisersoze said:

Ok, I haven't really seen anyone here say they've tried these blades so... I'll be the first?

Wow. Just wow. I normally just roll my eyes whenever I hear hockey marketing and about advanced technology in new gear. 10% faster this, 20% harder that, blah blah blah, etc. But I was able to confirm everything these blades were advertised to do during a skate (no game action yet).

Massive glide, tighter turns and as good or better edges or "bite" using a lesser hollow. For an experienced player and above average skater like myself, this was one piece of equipment where I feel was not just a small, incremental improvement but a next-level type of improvement to my skating. I know that might sound like hyperbole, but that's how it felt after only one 2-hour skate with them.

I'm going to have to try them back-to-back-to-back with my Steps and LS4s, but after the first time with these, I feel like I should just retire the conventional blades.

I agree with this. Although I thought the wider blade would feel different and more "stable", I really didn't notice anything while standing still. The blade didn't feel wider or any different than normal. It did feel taller though.

As someone who isn't that good in science, I can't wrap my head around how a wider blade would give you more glide... but there it was. It was massive and it was strange in a good way. Yes, I did go down to a 3/4" (The last time I used a conventional sharpening I was going with 5/8". Been using flat-bottom for 5-6 years now) but it was the flare and not the shallow hollow because I was never so smooth before

Feeling how little bite there was initially while gliding, doing basic snowplows and forward strides, I was really hesitant to do a fast tight turn. Well, I was absolutely shocked and delighted that my edges were better and cleaner than, well, ever... using a hollow that would have normally sent me sliding towards the boards on regular blades.

Finally, some truth in advertising. Anyways, that's all I got for now.

agreed,,, I have had pretty much the same experience with these blade, i have the dlc blades, had them for about a month now

[VegasHockey 1280]

15 hours ago, kaisersoze said:

Ok, I haven't really seen anyone here say they've tried these blades so... I'll be the first?

Wow. Just wow. I normally just roll my eyes whenever I hear hockey marketing and about advanced technology in new gear. 10% faster this, 20% harder that, blah blah blah, etc. But I was able to confirm everything these blades were advertised to do during a skate (no game action yet).

Massive glide, tighter turns and as good or better edges or "bite" using a lesser hollow. For an experienced player and above average skater like myself, this was one piece of equipment where I feel was not just a small, incremental improvement but a next-level type of improvement to my skating. I know that might sound like hyperbole, but that's how it felt after only one 2-hour skate with them.

I'm going to have to try them back-to-back-to-back with my Steps and LS4s, but after the first time with these, I feel like I should just retire the conventional blades.

I agree with this. Although I thought the wider blade would feel different and more "stable", I really didn't notice anything while standing still. The blade didn't feel wider or any different than normal. It did feel taller though.

As someone who isn't that good in science, I can't wrap my head around how a wider blade would give you more glide... but there it was. It was massive and it was strange in a good way. Yes, I did go down to a 3/4" (The last time I used a conventional sharpening I was going with 5/8". Been using flat-bottom for 5-6 years now) but it was the flare and not the shallow hollow because I was never so smooth before

Feeling how little bite there was initially while gliding, doing basic snowplows and forward strides, I was really hesitant to do a fast tight turn. Well, I was absolutely shocked and delighted that my edges were better and cleaner than, well, ever... using a hollow that would have normally sent me sliding towards the boards on regular blades.

Finally, some truth in advertising. Anyways, that's all I got for now.

Our stores in Seattle, WA sell a lot of them and everyone who has used them, myself included, finds the benefits of these are substantial, especially if you get them profiled. You really should try going to a flatter hollow, less than 3/4" once you get adjusted. Most of the people we sharpen that have Flare are on 1" - 1 1/2" ROH, the ones with a 1 1/2" ROH usually have a ZC though. 

[kaisersoze 3]

46 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

Our stores in Seattle, WA sell a lot of them and everyone who has used them, myself included, finds the benefits of these are substantial, especially if you get them profiled. You really should try going to a flatter hollow, less than 3/4" once you get adjusted. Most of the people we sharpen that have Flare are on 1" - 1 1/2" ROH, the ones with a 1 1/2" ROH usually have a ZC though. 

It's good to know that many others have also found the benefits substantial and even, dare I say, revolutionary? I wasn't just imagining things. I don't expect products to always deliver what is promised but when they do, you just like, feel good about humanity 😄

I had some doubts that these might be like those heated blades or the spring-loaded blades. Hard to substantiate with so little information and feedback out there from normal guys like us.

Sorry, when I mentioned the hollow that I used, I was referring to traditional blades. So according to the Flare chart on the package, the 3/4" (traditional) would equal to 1 1/8" (Flare). 

In fact, I'm thinking of going up to a 5/8" (traditional) or 1" (Flare) because as a defenceman, I need some "grip" to gently move guys in front of the net. Like I said, during my skate, I didn't feel much bite until I leaned into turns and really focused on my edges.

I've since had a stick and puck session and the sharpening is already feeling a bit worn so I think I will try the next hollow up. I think this current hollow is too flat for me.

Btw, I had these Flares profiled with Quad 1 just like my Steps and LS4s. But those sets are flat-bottom sharpened.

[psulion22 402]

On 2/2/2019 at 5:51 PM, Nicholas G said:

You can actually use a prosharp level if you have one, measure it from the left side and right side. The amount it should be off on each side should be equal. If that doesn't make sense I can snap some pics later today. 

I don't have one of those either.  I'll go with a combination of something across the blade and using a marker on the bottom of the blade to see if the wear is in the middle on the first pass.  Also adjusting the wheel to give even edges on regular steel, and assuming it will be the same on the Flare.  Hopefully Flare will eventually get more Squares in, and they'll still be reasonably priced.

[psulion22 402]

My experience with Flare blades is that they are like a FBV on steroids.  Much better glide, and better bite for the angle.  After a few sessions, I can confidently say I'm faster on these runners.  It's to the point that I was actually out of control until I learned to adapt to the speed.  I was running into other players and the boards/net because I was going faster and cutting faster than I thought and misjudged things.  It's resulted in a few pretty hard hits, in non-checking hockey.  These blades are definitely as advertised, more than I expected them to be.  There's more of a learning curve than I anticipated, and I'm still finding how deep I can get and still have an edge.  There is also a spot where you do lose an edge if you were to very lightly turn your ankle (I guess it's in that 0-6* range before you engage the flare).  Even with that, I still very highly recommend them.

[kaisersoze 3]

1 hour ago, psulion22 said:

These blades are definitely as advertised, more than I expected them to be.  There's more of a learning curve than I anticipated, and I'm still finding how deep I can get and still have an edge.  There is also a spot where you do lose an edge if you were to very lightly turn your ankle (I guess it's in that 0-6* range before you engage the flare).  Even with that, I still very highly recommend them.

 

Yes, exactly. You explained it well. That's why I'm thinking about trying a slightly deeper hollow with these blades. I found during very slow movements, turns and transitions, I couldn't feel that edge because I hadn't quite reached that angle of engagement yet. So it felt a little unstable during those situations.

[superchad 2]

Has anyone experimented with Blackstone FBV or the Blademaster version of the flat bottom on the Flareblades? 

Edited February 5, 2019 by superchad
more to the question

[VegasHockey 1280]

4 hours ago, superchad said:

Has anyone experimented with Blackstone FBV or the Blademaster version of the flat bottom on the Flareblades? 

I tried it and it doesn't work. You can, however, do a ROH with a ZC which works great! 

[flip12 714]

On 2/2/2019 at 11:53 PM, Nicholas G said:

You don't really skate on your toes or heel. Also, the primary benefit of Flare is not the width as most people think, its the actual flare of the steel which allows you to get over further on your edges. The width obviously does help with stability and glide, having a more flat hollow, but that's not the main focus of the benefit of the steel. 

The more I picture this the more it makes sense. If it's the angle of the skate's edges that matter for sharper cornering and smoother glide, then it follows that it should work both ways: the angle digs in more when the blade angle is rotated into alignment with it when pushing and turning, and digs in less when the blade angle is closest to perpendicular to it, the bite of the blade contributing less drag to glide resistance compared to a normal rectangular blade.

I really want to try these with the ZChannel. I just doubt I'll have any skates with compatible holders in my rotation anytime soon.

[maximus91 7]

So the True holders - no dice for the Flare blade?

[VegasHockey 1280]

1 hour ago, maximus91 said:

So the True holders - no dice for the Flare blade?

Not yet. I have been hounding them to make it for the VH/TRUE holder but they just dont see enough of a demand. Maybe now that TRUE is only shipping skates with the VH/TRUE holder they will reconsider.